OT: Sens Lounge LXXXII | Rise of Omni / Caeldan, the YES man

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

From every scholarly article I've read universal healthcare is actually a more cost effective system and is just a better method overall when it comes to treating people. It's a bit of a passionate subject of mine. The problem here is the insurance lobbyists have their claws into everything. To me Obamacare, ugh I hate calling it that, failed. It has some good things about it but it just failed to achieve what we need on so many levels. What saddens me is how he pretty much gave up the fight on universal healthcare and settled on what we have now, a half assed version.

 

[Ice-Tray]

From every scholarly article I've read universal healthcare is actually a more cost effective system and is just a better method overall when it comes to treating people. It's a bit of a passionate subject of mine. The problem here is the insurance lobbyists have their claws into everything. To me Obamacare, ugh I hate calling it that, failed. It has some good things about it but it just failed to achieve what we need on so many levels. What saddens me is how he pretty much gave up the fight on universal healthcare and settled on what we have now, a half assed version.

It is a shame, especially since one side can twist things and now use it as an example of universal healthcare and how it is a failure.

Sometimes you just wish you could ram-rod things through for the greater good....

Of course that's a slippery slope for another day...

 

[Caeldan]

Big Rig pizza is very good

 

[MakeOttawaGreatAgain]

Woot! Just hit back to back PRs ! Benching 155lb

5-10 lbs from my body weight! (Depends how much I ate the night before)

 

[Ice-Tray]

Woot! Just hit back to back PRs ! Benching 155lb

5-10 lbs from my body weight! (Depends how much I ate the night nefore)

Edit- better ?

Nice work!

 

[Harbinger]

Battles ropes are just awesome.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

From every scholarly article I've read universal healthcare is actually a more cost effective system and is just a better method overall when it comes to treating people. It's a bit of a passionate subject of mine. The problem here is the insurance lobbyists have their claws into everything. To me Obamacare, ugh I hate calling it that, failed. It has some good things about it but it just failed to achieve what we need on so many levels. What saddens me is how he pretty much gave up the fight on universal healthcare and settled on what we have now, a half assed version.

It's quite good and most people should be happy/proud of it

It costs a ****ton to maintain however, effeciencies needs to be found

Also, it's the Affordable Care Act, not Obamacare and it's doing decent, it hasn't failed. It hasn't fixed eveything but nothing fixes everything in one go, it's a step in the right way; that's how I see it.

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

It's quite good and most people should be happy/proud of it

It costs a ****ton to maintain however, effeciencies needs to be found

Also, it's the Affordable Care Act, not Obamacare and it's doing decent, it hasn't failed. It hasn't fixed eveything but nothing fixes everything in one go, it's a step in the right way; that's how I see it.

You're more optimistic than me. I followed Obama for awhile and he was pretty gung ho about universal healthcare early on and backed down significantly after he won the presidency. I think you need to do it right the first time or you're going to get stuck.

I think my dream somewhat realistic ticket for presidency is a Bernie Sanders Elizabeth Warren ticket. Warren seems out though. Sanders is the only democratic socialist in congress and he even gets votes from conservative small business Vermont citizens.

 

[Caeldan]

The thing about the ACA from what I've gathered from a glance is that it's a very 'American' version of universal health care. ie. it's universal in that everyone has to get insurance, but it's very much focused on having many private companies involved, rather than a centralized system.

 

[ChocolateLeclaire]

The thing about the ACA from what I've gathered from a glance is that it's a very 'American' version of universal health care. ie. it's universal in that everyone has to get insurance, but it's very much focused on having many private companies involved, rather than a centralized system.

Um...so how did it go...?

 

[BonkTastic]

Um...so how did it go...?

I would also like to know the answer to this question.

 

[MakeOttawaGreatAgain]

I would also like to know the answer to this question.

Tell us you must

 

[ottawa]

How did what go?

 

[BonkTastic]

How did what go?

Caeldan was going to ask his girlfriend why she doesn't fart in front of him.

 

[ottawa]

Well that's interesting

So how did it go?

 

[ottawa]

From every scholarly article I've read universal healthcare is actually a more cost effective system and is just a better method overall when it comes to treating people. It's a bit of a passionate subject of mine. The problem here is the insurance lobbyists have their claws into everything. To me Obamacare, ugh I hate calling it that, failed. It has some good things about it but it just failed to achieve what we need on so many levels. What saddens me is how he pretty much gave up the fight on universal healthcare and settled on what we have now, a half assed version.

That's interesting because I think Canada's universal healthcare system is extremely flawed...what do you think of the healthcare system we have in place here? And which universal healthcare system do you think is the most ideal one? I too am fascinated by this topic but I'm actually unaware of the different types of universal systems other countries have, I don't really pay much attention to them to be honest, and throughout my schooling we just learned about Canadian policies and structures.

Just to be clear, I don't think what we have in Canada is bad, I just think its very flawed and the costs are far from being evenly distributed. Especially when you look at the different age groups involved.

 

[DrEasy]

That's interesting because I think Canada's universal healthcare system is extremely flawed...what do you think of the healthcare system we have in place here? And which universal healthcare system do you think is the most ideal one? I too am fascinated by this topic but I'm actually unaware of the different types of universal systems other countries have, I don't really pay much attention to them to be honest, and throughout my schooling we just learned about Canadian policies and structures.

Just to be clear, I don't think what we have in Canada is bad, I just think its very flawed and the costs are far from being evenly distributed. Especially when you look at the different age groups involved.

I know nothing about healthcare systems, so the following is an extreme simplification of the choices I understand you have, and I'm happy to be corrected:

- everybody gets the same good healthcare, but the system is bankrupt and not sustainable (e.g., France)

- only the rich get excellent healthcare, the rest can't afford it (e.g., USA, but Obamacare may be an improvement)

- everybody gets the same bad healthcare, but the system isn't bankrupt (hmmm can't think of any example... )

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Hahaha,

No thank you, and I'm mostly trying to relay some information and adding a little of my opinion. I applaud Health Canada's efforts to target controllable behaviour that has an enormously detrimental effect on health care. The cost is one issue, but better overall health of the nation is the outcome regardless.

How far can they/we go to curb advertising and product packaging though?

It still is a major cost in the US from what I read because a large percentage of the obese population are in a low socioeconomic bracket that relies on public health care. It is not nearly as robust a safety net as here in Canada, but there are also a LOT more people accessing it.

Then there are all of the related costs.

I do have some personal opinions on the issue as usual, but I think I'll refrain from wading in from that angle because it really is a touchy subject.

Biggest expense - lost productivity. That effects your personal finances, the finances of the company your work for, reductions in the overall economy (can't spend what you don't have or sell what you don't produce), and taxes to the various levels of government.

That's the biggest reason governments get involved in the smoking, obesity, etc etc. Gotta make sure the GDP keeps going up so the paper economists are happy.

 

[BonkTastic]

That's interesting because I think Canada's universal healthcare system is extremely flawed...what do you think of the healthcare system we have in place here? And which universal healthcare system do you think is the most ideal one? I too am fascinated by this topic but I'm actually unaware of the different types of universal systems other countries have, I don't really pay much attention to them to be honest, and throughout my schooling we just learned about Canadian policies and structures.

Just to be clear, I don't think what we have in Canada is bad, I just think its very flawed and the costs are far from being evenly distributed. Especially when you look at the different age groups involved.

After having experienced the health care systems of at least a half-dozen different countries at this point, I can say that it has only reaffirmed my opinion that the Canadian system is one of the most fair, best systems out there.

Flawed? Sure. But just because it is flawed doesn't mean it needs to be scrapped. We just need to find the inefficiencies in the system and correct them.

The US style system is great if you have a lot of money, but it is so awful in every other respect. There is such an incredible class disparity involved that there will never be anything close to acceptable health care for those who need it most.

The Canadian system is the most ideal I've seen as far as keeping our COUNTRY healthy. I can't stress that point enough - People that argue for the American system are not thinking about their community, they're not thinking about their neighbor, they're not thinking about themselves as a part of a larger whole... they're thinking of themselves. Period. I'll gladly trade in ridiculously quick (and expensive!!!) wait times if it mean that the poorest Canadians can get the help they need, and won't have to declare bankruptcy to get it.

 

[bacon25]

After having experienced the health care systems of at least a half-dozen different countries at this point, I can say that it has only reaffirmed my opinion that the Canadian system is one of the most fair, best systems out there.

Flawed? Sure. But just because it is flawed doesn't mean it needs to be scrapped. We just need to find the inefficiencies in the system and correct them.

The US style system is great if you have a lot of money, but it is so awful in every other respect. There is such an incredible class disparity involved that there will never be anything close to acceptable health care for those who need it most.

The Canadian system is the most ideal I've seen as far as keeping our COUNTRY healthy. I can't stress that point enough - People that argue for the American system are not thinking about their community, they're not thinking about their neighbor, they're not thinking about themselves as a part of a larger whole... they're thinking of themselves. Period. I'll gladly trade in ridiculously quick (and expensive!!!) wait times if it mean that the poorest Canadians can get the help they need, and won't have to declare bankruptcy to get it.

Agreed, I have experienced only Canada's system and the US system and all I can say is that Canada's system is much more affordable, even with the ACA the price of healthcare in the US is an immense burden on low income families. The US should have adopted the German or Japan models to healthcare as they would be more culturally easy to adopt in the US. Frontline's "Sick around the World" gives a good overall view of these systems if anyone is interested in knowing more.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Agreed, I have experienced only Canada's system and the US system and all I can say is that Canada's system is much more affordable, even with the ACA the price of healthcare in the US is an immense burden on low income families. The US should have adopted the German or Japan models to healthcare as they would be more culturally easy to adopt in the US. Frontline's "Sick around the World" gives a good overall view of these systems if anyone is interested in knowing more.

I'm really not sure if America can afford a real universal healthcare system.

The first thing they need to do is change attitudes. So many Americans lead such an unhealthy lifestyle (Canada isn't much better, but better enough not to bankrupt the country with healthcare costs) that it would be impossible to treat everyone as it is right now. The "supersize" mentality (meaning food and over-indulgence, not necessarily body size) really needs to go extinct first.

 

[Benjamin]

Im really annoyed that dental isn't part of the free health care.

 

[maclean]

Live and let live is one thing, but when it comes to having to pay for the medical costs for others' who wilfully destroy their bodies it becomes something else all together.

Next target: hockey.

 

[StefanW]

That's interesting because I think Canada's universal healthcare system is extremely flawed...what do you think of the healthcare system we have in place here? And which universal healthcare system do you think is the most ideal one? I too am fascinated by this topic but I'm actually unaware of the different types of universal systems other countries have, I don't really pay much attention to them to be honest, and throughout my schooling we just learned about Canadian policies and structures.

Just to be clear, I don't think what we have in Canada is bad, I just think its very flawed and the costs are far from being evenly distributed. Especially when you look at the different age groups involved.

There are flaws in every system. The Canadian health care model is more cost effect in dollar per person than the US model was back when only a portion of the population had coverage.

Just as side story, a relative moved to California and her son ended up finishing high school there. He took a course in history that was called something along the lines of America's Influence in the World. The teacher confronted this kid in front of the entire class over how Canadian health care is really communist. This stuff actually happens.

 

[The Lewler]

Democratic Socialist.. *shudder*.