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[saskriders]

Well, for one - coming from some ridings with effective MPs I would not want to see ridings significantly increased.
You'd also end up then likely concentrating the power even moreso in the hands on Ontario and Quebec.

And I'm saying that if you have a multi-winner (so I'm assuming we're just doing 2 per riding)... you're either going to have NDP/PC, or PC/Liberal, and maybe in some rare instances Liberal/NDP.
Because even with an STV system, all the little guys are still going to get dropped out to add their votes to the big guys eventually.

Regarding your criterion listed... STV fails Condorcet, Participation, Monotonicity at the very least, and I believe that it could fail Reversal as well.

There's no perfect preference system so introduce IRV first, as a stepping stone. This way you start seeing more votes for other parties such as Green, and it's possible they may get enough votes in some ridings to win as a result since people are confident enough to put them as a #1 choice (and if they don't win, at least your second choice of big party can apply).

From there, over time perhaps other methods can be built on that base.

But I think we can agree almost any preference system is better than FPTP.

What is wrong with increasing the size of the ridings? There would still be the same number of constituents per MP, and bigger ridings doesn't mean MPs would be worse. I would actually argue they would be better, because even in regions dominated by one party (where bad MPs, for example Rob Anders, get elected) they may win only 2 of the 3 seats in a riding with the big party's least competent candidate losing out to another party's most competent.

Power wouldn't be more concentrated in Ontario or Quebec. The seats per province wold stay the same.

I don't understand what you are trying to say in this paragraph. Who cares if the Conservatives, Liberals, and NDP get most of the seats, they get most of the votes. PR and STV aim to make the share of seats reflect the share of votes, not kick out the big parties. And smaller parties would still get a few candidates in if they were popular enough in a riding. For instance, assuming the vast majority of ridings return 3 candidates two might go to the big parties. But the final seat may go to the Greens if people who voted for eliminated candidates listed them as an alternate choice. Keep in mind that the Greens won a seat, had a second place finish, and had 17 third place finishes. Irregardless people who want to vote Green can without splitting the vote.

I don't think STV fails Condorcet. Do you have any mathematical proof? I can show some for all the things I listed for IRV if you would like.

STV only fails participation criterion if a voter ranks candidates he doesn't like. If for instance I ranked NDP, Liberal, and Green candidates only I would never be helping the Conservative candidates. I believe monotonicity would be the same, but I am not 100% sure.

I agree IRV is better than FPTP, but I still think it is a bad system. Ideally we wouldn't need a stepping stone, and could go immediately to PR. Many countries already have adopted some form of PR. Canada is behind the times.

 

[DrEasy]

Timmy's dark roast almost tastes like coffee, so it's progress. But it's still hit or miss.

 

[MainDotC]

Porno Gil

 

[Caeldan]

What is wrong with increasing the size of the ridings? There would still be the same number of constituents per MP, and bigger ridings doesn't mean MPs would be worse. I would actually argue they would be better, because even in regions dominated by one party (where bad MPs, for example Rob Anders, get elected) they may win only 2 of the 3 seats in a riding with the big party's least competent candidate losing out to another party's most competent.

Power wouldn't be more concentrated in Ontario or Quebec. The seats per province wold stay the same.

I don't understand what you are trying to say in this paragraph. Who cares if the Conservatives, Liberals, and NDP get most of the seats, they get most of the votes. PR and STV aim to make the share of seats reflect the share of votes, not kick out the big parties. And smaller parties would still get a few candidates in if they were popular enough in a riding. For instance, assuming the vast majority of ridings return 3 candidates two might go to the big parties. But the final seat may go to the Greens if people who voted for eliminated candidates listed them as an alternate choice. Keep in mind that the Greens won a seat, had a second place finish, and had 17 third place finishes. Irregardless people who want to vote Green can without splitting the vote.

I don't think STV fails Condorcet. Do you have any mathematical proof? I can show some for all the things I listed for IRV if you would like.

STV only fails participation criterion if a voter ranks candidates he doesn't like. If for instance I ranked NDP, Liberal, and Green candidates only I would never be helping the Conservative candidates. I believe monotonicity would be the same, but I am not 100% sure.

I agree IRV is better than FPTP, but I still think it is a bad system. Ideally we wouldn't need a stepping stone, and could go immediately to PR. Many countries already have adopted some form of PR. Canada is behind the times.

Regarding Condorcet:

17 B>A>C>D>E>F
17 C>A>D>E>F>B
17 D>A>E>F>B>C
17 E>A>F>B>C>D
17 F>A>B>C>D>E
15 A>B>C>D>E>F

In this example, A is preferred versus every rival (such as B) by a huge 83-to-17 majority, far larger than the greatest landslide in US presidential election history. So if it were a head-to-head A versus B race (or A versus anybody else), A would win huge.

IRV fails participation and monotonicity same way that STV do from what I can quickly read over about them.

As far as riding sizes go, if you increase riding sizes - you lose local representation for the less densely populated areas. Thinking about, that's actually a map I'd want to look at before going on too much more about it - ridings vs population density.

I'd say that you'd need to define your 'multiple' winners definition to an exact number as well as providing an idea of how you are going to redistribute ridings to really be able to conceptualize what you are trying to sell - because I see it actually as more a way of solidifying things into a 2 party system that's constantly in deadlock because neither has a majority, and there's not enough influence from the little guys to break it.

 

[saskriders]

Regarding Condorcet:


IRV fails participation and monotonicity same way that STV do from what I can quickly read over about them.

As far as riding sizes go, if you increase riding sizes - you lose local representation for the less densely populated areas. Thinking about, that's actually a map I'd want to look at before going on too much more about it - ridings vs population density.

I'd say that you'd need to define your 'multiple' winners definition to an exact number as well as providing an idea of how you are going to redistribute ridings to really be able to conceptualize what you are trying to sell - because I see it actually as more a way of solidifying things into a 2 party system that's constantly in deadlock because neither has a majority, and there's not enough influence from the little guys to break it.

Ok, I guess you can say it would fail that way, but it is still an extreme example. I am not a mathematician so I don't have the best answer for all the criterion.


Not sure how you lose local representation for less densely populated areas? Unless you are saying that some who lives in for instance Churchill, Manitoba would have a riding that is less local. But rural ridings are already not very local. I would argue the benefits outweigh that negative.

It is too difficult to say an exact number right now, as there are a lot of factors to consider and some kind of committee would need to go over them to sort out the details. Likely it would be 3 or 4 or some ridings with 3 and some with 4. Redistributing ridings would be the same process, but the two big rules I would have are 1) Large cities, and rural areas can not be in the same riding, and 2) Ridings can not cross provincial or territorial borders.

There is no way it makes any more of a two party system than we have now. A real world example, Ireland has 7 parties in parliament. Regardless if there is a minority the little guys would be able to break it. Someone always holds the balance of power in a minority.

Also, obtaining majorities shouldn't be seen as a benefit in my opinion. When the parties just keep switching running the country it leads to unstable policy in the long term. One party will nationalize things, then the next guys will denationalize, then when the first guys get back in they will renationalize. Coalitions have to come to a consensus, not just the opinion of one group.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

What we really need is for more bottom-up powers from within the parties

Unfortunately top-down gets the best results so there is no incentive for change: why would MPs want to change things?

Also the PM has way, way too much power

 

[Benjamin]

I miss watching Seinfeld.

 

[littleD]

What we really need is for more bottom-up powers from within the parties

Unfortunately top-down gets the best results so there is no incentive for change: why would MPs want to change things?

Also the PM has way, way too much power

What is it that the PM has too much power to do?

 

[MainDotC]

I miss watching Seinfeld.

 

[Harbinger]

Seinfeld is one show I never could get into. All my friends loved the show and said i was insane for not liking it. Maybe it's because i don't like Jerry Seinfeld's braind of comedy.

 

[Harbinger]

And I realize it's not appropriate to call Adam Baldwin what I said earlier, but the guy is such a moron. I just gotta shake my head at him and this whole gamergate thing he's involved with.


So yeah, Adam Baldwin is an enlarged prostate.

 

[tony d]

Yeah, I always liked "Seinfeld" but I can see why people didn't like it.

As to other shows I could not get into it's "Breaking Bad", I can't see how that show got all the hype it got.

 

[Super Cake]

Yeah, I always liked "Seinfeld" but I can see why people didn't like it.

As to other shows I could not get into it's "Breaking Bad", I can't see how that show got all the hype it got.

Believe it or not, everyone has different opinions.

 

[littleD]

Breaking Bad was an incredibly hard show for me to get in. But then once season two hit...

Easily some of the best TV over the remainder of the series that I can say I ever watched. Bryan Cranston was so awesome in that show.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

I heard "How to get away with Murder" is an excellent new show. I've watched first episode and so far so good(really good).

I agree LittleD, breaking bad was BRUTAL in first couple episodes but boooooom. Look back, the show's slow start really showed the slow and drastic change of the human psychology when committing crime for first time and then it became more and more natural after his first major crime(murder).

Looking back it's pretty brilliant, tbh. Especially as an English major who's taken some Pscyh courses.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

What is it that the PM has too much power to do?

What can't he or she do is the real question?

 

[Benjamin]

3 favourite movies, bands/artists, tv shows go!

 

[BonkTastic]

3 favourite movies

1) Lord Of The Rings (entire trilogy counts as one long movie)
2) Back To The Future
3) Major League

bands/artists

1) Joel Plaskett
2) Radiohead
3) Pearl Jam

tv shows

1) Star Trek: The Next Generation
2) Battlestar Galactica (the re-make, not the original, obviously)
3) Arrested Development

 

[Benjamin]

1) Lord Of The Rings (entire trilogy counts as one long movie)
2) Back To The Future
3) Major League


1) Joel Plaskett
2) Radiohead
3) Pearl Jam


1) Star Trek: The Next Generation
2) Battlestar Galactica (the re-make, not the original, obviously)
3) Arrested Development

I like your choices for TV and movies. Huge fan of all of those except Major League.

Trilogies/series def only count as 1.

 

[Qward]

Fifth Element
Shawshank Redemption
Groundhog Day

Red Hot Chili Peppers
Offspring
Counting Crows

Stargate SG1
Breaking Bad
Big Bang Theory

 

[Benjamin]

Fifth Element
Shawshank Redemption
Groundhog Day

Red Hot Chili Peppers
Offspring
Counting Crows

Stargate SG1
Breaking Bad
Big Bang Theory

Stargate is far and away my favourite TV show. Each series. Loved them all.

 

[saskriders]

Too hard to say.

The only for sure for me would be South Park is 1

 

[Deku]

Borat
21&22 Jump Street
Superbad

Nearly impossible for me to pick just 3 movies lol


Can't pick 3 bands because I just listen to assorted music mostly from the genres of rap, EDM, and alternative rock.
I like a lot of stuff by the Foo Fighters tho.


Curb Your Enthusiasm (so good, every damn episode.)
South Park
Bob's Burgers
(Rick & Morty will probably get into this list in the future)

 

[Senscore]

No order

Apocalypse Now
Aliens
Chinatown

Built to Spill
Queens of the Stone Age
Joy Division

Breaking Bad
The Wire
The Venture Bros

Might have to rethink Tv shows. I've never given a list of tv shows serious thought.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Movies:
Original Star Wars trilogy
Jaws
Shaun of the Dead

Star Wars: A New Hope was the first movie I'd ever seen outside the house (at the drive-in along the highway in Gloucester). It's hard to explain just how big that movie was back in the day. Star Was was everything in elementary school. Jaws was the first scary movie I had seen, around age seven. A lot of people had a fear of going to the beach after that one (silly to think of now looking back at how obvious that Bruce was only a fake shark). Shaun of the Dead is hilariously funny, but also really special for all the hidden easter eggs in the movie.


Music:
Rush
Fleetwood Mac
Heart

Could add a ton of different bands here...I've dabbled in various rock, hair bands of the 80s, new age, a bit of alternative, classical, etc. Listen to a fair bit, but don't dive all that deeply into any particular bands. Pretty much whatever happened to be popular on the radio from the 70s to late 90s that had a decent bass feature to it (no, not dance/electro bass, but actual bass guitar, like Queen, Rush, etc).

TV:
Golden Girls
Night Court
HNIC (hockey in general)

Haven't really followed any shows over the last 15 years or so. Pretty much the only show I tend stop and check out when channel surfing these days is Mayday on Discovery. Pretty amazing how most plane crashes tend to have several different factors that contribute to crashes, where removing just one variable likely would've prevented most accidents.