Confirmed with Link: Senators are for sale - and it’s a Gong Show

[Golden_Jet]

Guess

Complete BS. I said nothing of the sort. I've always said that the Board can either approve or veto per below (etc.). The "sisters decide" is the invention of one of the other posters involved in this discussion. Nice try though. You love those gotcha type posts, but let's stick with what people actually said.

I've copied my first post on this subject. It's #1053, Feb.15 in this thread (Senators are for Sale). You can take a look yourself at the first post and #1086 & 1088 as well.

"Nice theory, but it's the other way around. Bettman finds out what the Board wants, and then promotes & advances those objectives.

The NHL has a constitution and a Board of Governors. The constitution dictates how decisions are made. In Article 2.1.b. of the Constitution it states the purpose of the Constitution and League is "The promotion of the common interests of members of the League, each member being an owner of a professional hockey club".

Bettman serves at the pleasure of the Board. He can be fired by the Board, and the Board can appoint another Commissioner which of course is laid out in the Constitution as well. This is the way all corporations are run as well, not just the NHL.

The Board can decide to reject a an offer from a prospective owner to purchase a NHL club. This happened with Balsillie's attempt to purchase the Phoenix Coyotes. "The criteria set forth in the [NHL] constitution and bylaws relates to financial wherewithal, character, integrity and the view whether or not the other owners would deem you a good partner," Bettman said. When asked why Reinsdorf's group's application was approved, Bettman said, "That's a question better directed to the governors because they're the ones who vote."

In the sale of the Penguins to FSG (Fenway), the Penguins owner had already reached an agreement for the sale of the Penguins to Fenway and 2 weeks later the Board approved the agreement that had been reached and the sale: "The approval from the Board of Governors comes less than two weeks after the Penguins reached an agreement for Fenway Sports Group to acquire controlling interest in the team.".

Bettman isn't a pied piper telling a hapless bunch of successful, powerful, uber-wealthy billionaires what to do. For those that have experience in corporate governance, the NHL constitution and the way it is run is very similar to corporations and the idea that Bettman is a king or autocrat that tells owners/Board of Governors what to do even if its against their wishes is pretty far fetched. Bettman's success no doubt is that he understands what his BoG wants and has helped orchestrate that in the past. Bettman wouldn't be where he is today if he didn't do this and was going against the wishes of the BoG."

I mistook you for the sisters one, my bad.

 

[Micklebot]

Some parts in there are correct. Don’t need your legalize thanks, I’m married to one.

Your shall is referring to most bids in the past that a team gets (1 bid).
Not multiple, If Gary sees the vetting of an applicant is substandard for the league he’s telling Gallatio that, and that group won’t move forward.

Anyways enough derailing of thread , I’ll bow out.

Moved to any appropriate thread,

What exactly is incorrect? Do you think Gary would block a bid from moving to the next round against the will of the Melnyk's, I suspect thats something he, as a lawyer himself, would probably want to avoid. I suspect if there are any red flags, he'd advise the bidders of why they would not receive his endorsement and subsequently would be unlikely to receive bog approval, which would likely result in the bidder stepping down on their own.

The reality is we've seen bids get rejected by the board, so no, Bettman won't just not present a bid he doesn't think will get 75% approval, Balsille, one of two bids for the Coyotes in 2009, has first hand experience with that.

Having this many bidders is an interesting situation, because we might end up with multiple bids the NHL deem acceptable, the Melnyk's then would be in a position to try and force their hand, though it's just as likely multiple bids will be acceptable to them as well, and they'll just differ to the NHL's preference.

 

[Big Muddy]

Moved to any appropriate thread,

What exactly is incorrect? Do you think Gary would block a bid from moving to the next round against the will of the Melnyk's, I suspect thats something he, as a lawyer himself, would probably want to avoid. I suspect if there are any red flags, he'd advise the bidders of why they would not receive his endorsement and subsequently would be unlikely to receive bog approval, which would likely result in the bidder stepping down on their own.

The reality is we've seen bids get rejected by the board, so no, Bettman won't just not present a bid he doesn't think will get 75% approval, Balsille, one of two bids for the Coyotes in 2009, has first hand experience with that.

Having this many bidders is an interesting situation, because we might end up with multiple bids the NHL deem acceptable, the Melnyk's then would be in a position to try and force their hand, though it's just as likely multiple bids will be acceptable to them as well, and they'll just differ to the NHL's preference.

There's a lot of money involved here. I would think that there's a vested interest for all the involved parties to have this sale go through smoothly without any hiccups or issues.

I think the whole process being used would have been vetted & gained board approval before they went forward with it. I don't think it would be a good thing for Bettman (or the NHL) If there's a problem and this gets out to the general public. I don't see that being good for Bettman or something that he would want. That just my 2 pesos.

 

[Micklebot]

There's a lot of money involved here. I would think that there's a vested interest for all the involved parties to have this sale go through smoothly without any hiccups or issues.

I think the whole process being used would have been vetted & gained board approval before they went forward with it. I don't think it would be a good thing for Bettman (or the NHL) If there's a problem and this gets out to the general public. I don't see that being good for Bettman or something that he would want. That just my 2 pesos.

Looking at the reported bidders, I suspect any of them would get board approval, they all appear to satisfy the leagues standards financially, though I suppose the investigation the commish is supposed to do could produce some dirty laundry that might cause issues on the character front.

So it comes down to making sure the leagues preferred buyer suits a bid that is satisfactory to the current owners. Both sides have leverage, the process is about finding a middle ground everybody will accept.

 

[Golden_Jet]

There's a lot of money involved here. I would think that there's a vested interest for all the involved parties to have this sale go through smoothly without any hiccups or issues.

I think the whole process being used would have been vetted & gained board approval before they went forward with it. I don't think it would be a good thing for Bettman (or the NHL) If there's a problem and this gets out to the general public. I don't see that being good for Bettman or something that he would want. That just my 2 pesos.

Ya some bids didn’t make round 2, as Gary said last week more Due diligence is ongoing atm,
Agree, all vetting will be completed before sent to board, especially with multiple parties.

 

[Big Muddy]

Ya some bids didn’t make round 2, as Gary said last week more Due diligence is ongoing atm,
Agree, all vetting will be completed before sent to board, especially with multiple parties.

I agree, but was also thinking that the process being used for the sale of the Senators was also vetted & approved by the BoG. So I was thinking more broadly about the vetting that has occurred throughout this entire process including and especially at the beginning of this whole sale process. Once it gets to final stage, the BoG will approve or can veto as others have pointed out. But, I'd think a veto situation is not the desirable outcome.

The good news is that there's multiple bids and that the potential new owners appear to have deep pockets.

 

[Union2017]

Well we do have free choice with the ability to say "no" or "no thanks" to many things we or our family want. Many choose not to.

Yes. We could eat antibiotic fed poultry and pork. Live in a crappy house and not have a car. Tell our kids they can’t have cell phones until they can afford their own. Eat bottom of the barrel fruits and vegetables. Disconnect internet. All doable.

 

[bicboi64]

It's pretty clear the era of cheap stuff is slowly coming to an end and there needs to be some rebalancing. We'll see.

Its kinda scary. I was born in 1993, and all of my friends that have managed to afford property have had help from their parents and everyone worked multiple jobs just to be able to save up. Friends that made $42-47 an hour (healthcare, law, business, etc...) still had part time jobs on the weekend to save every bit they can.

Those of us that can't find fully salaried positions because they aren't available have to balance contracts. I rotate between 4 different contracts, each being 10 hours a week and its annoying. I still get relatives asking me, "why aren't you saving for a house", its like chill your downpayment for a $200-250k house in 2000 was easier than being able to have a downpayment in the same region where homes have quadrupled. My family home was bought for $200 in 2001, is now $1.2 million lol wtf.

All my leisure events are cut down to groupon specials, even then I cut back on my main cost (concerts). I stopped going to raptors games, don't buy new video games, or eat out unless its an anniversary or birthday.

 

[Union2017]

Its kinda scary. I was born in 1993, and all of my friends that have managed to afford property have had help from their parents and everyone worked multiple jobs just to be able to save up. Friends that made $42-47 an hour (healthcare, law, business, etc...) still had part time jobs on the weekend to save every bit they can.

Those of us that can't find fully salaried positions because they aren't available have to balance contracts. I rotate between 4 different contracts, each being 10 hours a week and its annoying. I still get relatives asking me, "why aren't you saving for a house", its like chill your downpayment for a $200-250k house in 2000 was easier than being able to have a downpayment in the same region where homes have quadrupled. My family home was bought for $200 in 2001, is now $1.2 million lol wtf.

All my leisure events are cut down to groupon specials, even then I cut back on my main cost (concerts). I stopped going to raptors games, don't buy new video games, or eat out unless its an anniversary or birthday.

Exactly. It is stupid how expensive things are. We are working sometimes two or three jobs ( I worked two full time jobs for 10 years- 80 hours per week of work) just to live a normal life. Not to live like rock stars but to be able to have beer and whisky every weekend and bbq when I feel like having some steak or salmon.

 

[bicboi64]

Exactly. It is stupid how expensive things are. We are working sometimes two or three jobs ( I worked two full time jobs for 10 years- 80 hours per week of work) just to live a normal life. Not to live like rock stars but to be able to have beer and whisky every weekend and bbq when I feel like having some steak or salmon.

My partner is a nurse and thought she had a good salary, until she looked at the absolute bank she could be making doing agency work. She's legit considering leaving a salaried and benefits job so she can make more money in the short term while the opportunity is there, just so we can try saving for a downpayment.

I told her, find something near Ottawa. It means less concerts for me since the rock shows I attend often skip Ottawa between MTL and Toronto, and the spare money will go to Sens games

 

[Neil Patrick Harris]

Its kinda scary. I was born in 1993, and all of my friends that have managed to afford property have had help from their parents and everyone worked multiple jobs just to be able to save up. Friends that made $42-47 an hour (healthcare, law, business, etc...) still had part time jobs on the weekend to save every bit they can.

Those of us that can't find fully salaried positions because they aren't available have to balance contracts. I rotate between 4 different contracts, each being 10 hours a week and its annoying. I still get relatives asking me, "why aren't you saving for a house", its like chill your downpayment for a $200-250k house in 2000 was easier than being able to have a downpayment in the same region where homes have quadrupled. My family home was bought for $200 in 2001, is now $1.2 million lol wtf.

All my leisure events are cut down to groupon specials, even then I cut back on my main cost (concerts). I stopped going to raptors games, don't buy new video games, or eat out unless its an anniversary or birthday.

1994 Baby here. My path to home ownership involves living at home with my parents until they inevitably die

Can't wait for all that wealth to trickle down. Any day now...

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

1994 Baby here. My path to home ownership involves living at home with my parents until they inevitably die

Can't wait for all that wealth to trickle down. Any day now...

Sadly, that seems to be many peoples out these days. Either your parents/relatives have something to leave you or you're hooped.

 

[bicboi64]

1994 Baby here. My path to home ownership involves living at home with my parents until they inevitably die

Can't wait for all that wealth to trickle down. Any day now...

Ayyeee, I'm with the folks too, same with my partner. But the way housing and insurance rates are, it might honestly be cheaper for us to rent. We are tired living with our families, me especially since I work from home. Main issue is, she works DT toronto and wants to be near work (makes sense with 12 hour nursing shifts). I'm down to live anywhere as long as its an hour drive to GTA so I can still go to shows. I don't even feel comfortable proposing yet because of my jobs being contracts, but I'll go wherever she prefers since her job is harder, happy future wife, happy future life hopefully

 

[SPF6ty9]

1994 Baby here. My path to home ownership involves living at home with my parents until they inevitably die

Can't wait for all that wealth to trickle down. Any day now...

It's kind of crazy, but my group of friends has kind of split between the "Haves" and the "Have nots" and there's one deciding factor: those that bought a house before covid and those that haven't. Prices are ridiculous and to say I'm worried about the future supply situation is, well, putting it mildly.

 

[Tuna99]

Yes. We could eat antibiotic fed poultry and pork. Live in a crappy house and not have a car. Tell our kids they can’t have cell phones until they can afford their own. Eat bottom of the barrel fruits and vegetables. Disconnect internet. All doable.

life is hard; that’s why Alfie-God gave NHL hockey to the city of Ottawa

 

[ColinM]

It's kind of crazy, but my group of friends has kind of split between the "Haves" and the "Have nots" and there's one deciding factor: those that bought a house before covid and those that haven't. Prices are ridiculous and to say I'm worried about the future supply situation is, well, putting it mildly.

So true. Most of the increase of my home's value has taken place in the last 5 years despite having purchased it in 2007. It's nice that it has gone up so much but I worry that my yet to be adult children would be able to own a home close to where I live unless it is a postage stamp sized condo.

 

[DueDiligence]

Yes. We could eat antibiotic fed poultry and pork. Live in a crappy house and not have a car. Tell our kids they can’t have cell phones until they can afford their own. Eat bottom of the barrel fruits and vegetables. Disconnect internet. All doable.

Stop playing the victim. You try to justify how bad things are by going to extremes. There is a middle path you can follow that can be both frugal and satisfying. Not everything needs to be a brand name and brand new.

 

[Union2017]

Stop playing the victim. You try to justify how bad things are by going to extremes. There is a middle path you can follow that can be both frugal and satisfying. Not everything needs to be a brand name and brand new.

A victim? You are not reading my posts, at all. I am talking about what's reality for a huge majority of this country's population. My son is 27 and still living with us cause he can't afford to buy a house. He has university degree. I don't know about you ,but most of the people are not buying and wearing brand names. Brand new what? I had one brand new car in my 30 years of driving. Wooohoooo. Now, if you think that it's normal and OK for people to struggle to pay their bills and provide good, quality food for their families while they are both working full time jobs, then I don't know what to tell you. A victim?! Extremes?! You live in some la la land, man.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Bruce - "It's going to be very very hard for the NHL to pass on Ryan Reynolds."

Sounds like he's not planning to be a silent partner type owner who shows up at the odd game, but a very active player in building this brand.

 

[DueDiligence]

A victim? You are not reading my posts, at all. I am talking about what's reality for a huge majority of this country's population. My son is 27 and still living with us cause he can't afford to buy a house. He has university degree. I don't know about you ,but most of the people are not buying and wearing brand names. Brand new what? I had one brand new car in my 30 years of driving. Wooohoooo. Now, if you think that it's normal and OK for people to struggle to pay their bills and provide good, quality food for their families while they are both working full time jobs, then I don't know what to tell you. A victim?! Extremes?! You live in some la la land, man.

So your son has a university degree, great. What does he work at? Has he got himself a good paying job? Or did he get a degree that didn't allow him to do that? If he's single he should be saving a chunk of money living with you. Maybe he saves enough in a few years to buy a fixer upper and once done rent out part of it to help pay the mortgage.
Bottom line there are ways to get ahead. I know lots of people that started out with nothing and worked their butts off to get ahead. Many worked 2 jobs, only bought used clothing for their kids. Never went out to restaurants and only bought groceries on sale. The first priority for these people was to buy a house, any house. Education was valued above all. As things got paid off they gradually loosened the purse strings.
I know that there is a percentage of people, through no fault of their own, that really struggle to get by and I believe society needs to support them. At the same time there is a greater number of people that make a good living but due to questionable choices never seem to be able to make ends meet. I personally know lots of people in both groups and I am sure you do as well.

 

[Union2017]

So your son has a university degree, great. What does he work at? Has he got himself a good paying job? Or did he get a degree that didn't allow him to do that? If he's single he should be saving a chunk of money living with you. Maybe he saves enough in a few years to buy a fixer upper and once done rent out part of it to help pay the mortgage.
Bottom line there are ways to get ahead. I know lots of people that started out with nothing and worked their butts off to get ahead. Many worked 2 jobs, only bought used clothing for their kids. Never went out to restaurants and only bought groceries on sale. The first priority for these people was to buy a house, any house. Education was valued above all. As things got paid off they gradually loosened the purse strings.
I know that there is a percentage of people, through no fault of their own, that really struggle to get by and I believe society needs to support them. At the same time there is a greater number of people that make a good living but due to questionable choices never seem to be able to make ends meet. I personally know lots of people in both groups and I am sure you do as well.

What's a good paying job in Ottawa? $60K? $70K? Houses are crazy expensive now. Gas, natural gas, electricity, water, food, everything is through the roof. if you don't feel that, then you are one of the few lucky ones.

Do you not understand that back in the days one parent would work and another would stay at home with kids? That was normal. They would buy a house and a car. They would be able to spend time with their families. Now we have both parents working, sometimes more than one job. And that's OK? Somehow it's OK that people consider healthy organic food a luxury. I disagree with that. I remember when it was a normal thing to buy. But, hey, we DON"T have to buy it, right? We can make choices. Feed our kids crap or keep renting. And it's not exaggeration, trust me. People do make those choices. Because they have to. And I am not saying they need a society to support them. But we live in a world where 1% of population controls 99% of money. And that's not OK. Bezos is flying his dick shaped rockets to the space, meanwhile we have people working for $16/hour and working 80-90 hours per week just to survive. Yeah, yeah, Bezos is smart and he worked hard for his money. Go work at Amazon and tell me that's fair, what they do there.

And just FYI - I am one of the "lucky ones" who has a house and my personal income is over that $60 or $70K I mentioned above. But I know what the reality is. I am not playing a victim. I am saying these new generations are victims and it will get worse with time. It's sad you don't see that.

 

[DueDiligence]

What's a good paying job in Ottawa? $60K? $70K? Houses are crazy expensive now. Gas, natural gas, electricity, water, food, everything is through the roof. if you don't feel that, then you are one of the few lucky ones.

Do you not understand that back in the days one parent would work and another would stay at home with kids? That was normal. They would buy a house and a car. They would be able to spend time with their families. Now we have both parents working, sometimes more than one job. And that's OK? Somehow it's OK that people consider healthy organic food a luxury. I disagree with that. I remember when it was a normal thing to buy. But, hey, we DON"T have to buy it, right? We can make choices. Feed our kids crap or keep renting. And it's not exaggeration, trust me. People do make those choices. Because they have to. And I am not saying they need a society to support them. But we live in a world where 1% of population controls 99% of money. And that's not OK. Bezos is flying his dick shaped rockets to the space, meanwhile we have people working for $16/hour and working 80-90 hours per week just to survive. Yeah, yeah, Bezos is smart and he worked hard for his money. Go work at Amazon and tell me that's fair, what they do there.

And just FYI - I am one of the "lucky ones" who has a house and my personal income is over that $60 or $70K I mentioned above. But I know what the reality is. I am not playing a victim. I am saying these new generations are victims and it will get worse with time. It's sad you don't see that.

I certainly see that. But I don't necessarily agree with it.

What I am saying is that many of the people that can't make ends meet are not willing to make the short term sacrifices to get ahead. If your son is making $60,000 a year and living with you he could be saving $20 K per year. Is he? I doubt he is. As for buying a house I just looked and saw over 30 houses for sale in the Ottawa market under $400 K. If your son had been "really" saving since he got out of school he might have $50-60 K in the bank. With that he could get a down payment. Have Dad cosign the loan if he doesn't qualify. Get 2-3 roommates to help pay the mortgage. It's certainly doable.
There's always a reason why we can't do something. Easier to blame Jeff Bezos than set some difficult goals and live up to them.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Complete BS. I said nothing of the sort. I've always said that the Board can either approve or veto per below (etc.). The "sisters decide" is the invention of one of the other posters involved in this discussion. Nice try though. You love those gotcha type posts, but let's stick with what people actually said.

I've copied my first post on this subject. It's #1053, Feb.15 in this thread (Senators are for Sale). You can take a look yourself at the first post and #1086 & 1088 as well.

"Nice theory, but it's the other way around. Bettman finds out what the Board wants, and then promotes & advances those objectives.

The NHL has a constitution and a Board of Governors. The constitution dictates how decisions are made. In Article 2.1.b. of the Constitution it states the purpose of the Constitution and League is "The promotion of the common interests of members of the League, each member being an owner of a professional hockey club".

Bettman serves at the pleasure of the Board. He can be fired by the Board, and the Board can appoint another Commissioner which of course is laid out in the Constitution as well. This is the way all corporations are run as well, not just the NHL.

The Board can decide to reject a an offer from a prospective owner to purchase a NHL club. This happened with Balsillie's attempt to purchase the Phoenix Coyotes. "The criteria set forth in the [NHL] constitution and bylaws relates to financial wherewithal, character, integrity and the view whether or not the other owners would deem you a good partner," Bettman said. When asked why Reinsdorf's group's application was approved, Bettman said, "That's a question better directed to the governors because they're the ones who vote."

In the sale of the Penguins to FSG (Fenway), the Penguins owner had already reached an agreement for the sale of the Penguins to Fenway and 2 weeks later the Board approved the agreement that had been reached and the sale: "The approval from the Board of Governors comes less than two weeks after the Penguins reached an agreement for Fenway Sports Group to acquire controlling interest in the team.".

Bettman isn't a pied piper telling a hapless bunch of successful, powerful, uber-wealthy billionaires what to do. For those that have experience in corporate governance, the NHL constitution and the way it is run is very similar to corporations and the idea that Bettman is a king or autocrat that tells owners/Board of Governors what to do even if its against their wishes is pretty far fetched. Bettman's success no doubt is that he understands what his BoG wants and has helped orchestrate that in the past. Bettman wouldn't be where he is today if he didn't do this and was going against the wishes of the BoG."

Nice try bud, I didn’t make it up, it was posted.

As for you reposting your own posts and some other ‘supporting stuff’ again is…. just as pointless now as it was then.

It’s like talking to a robot on this issue. continuing to quote the rule book, with no programming to understand the obvious nuances of the process unfolding right before you.

It isn’t very subtle, Gary’s role and influence, and the power that the BOG wields in this process, but if you can’t see it, you can’t see it.

I see no point in engaging in this any further.

 

[Union2017]

I certainly see that. But I don't necessarily agree with it.

What I am saying is that many of the people that can't make ends meet are not willing to make the short term sacrifices to get ahead. If your son is making $60,000 a year and living with you he could be saving $20 K per year. Is he? I doubt he is. As for buying a house I just looked and saw over 30 houses for sale in the Ottawa market under $400 K. If your son had been "really" saving since he got out of school he might have $50-60 K in the bank. With that he could get a down payment. Have Dad cosign the loan if he doesn't qualify. Get 2-3 roommates to help pay the mortgage. It's certainly doable.
There's always a reason why we can't do something. Easier to blame Jeff Bezos than set some difficult goals and live up to them.

I am not blaming Bezos, I am saying the system is wrong. Not talking about North America or Canada. The entire planet is messed up.

Imagine a family of four and then one parent gets sick. Can’t work. How many people have comfortable jobs with good benefits to survive that? You chose to be happy with how this whole thing works. I don’t. I think it sucks. It sucks that people can’t afford to go on a normal family vacation. Or put their kids into sports. And it’s getting worse because this whole system is being built just to make more money off of regular Joes. As I said, organic is a new gold. Make kids addicted to these social media apps so that you can make them pay to play with their friends, date new people etc. Again, I don’t hate the player, I hate the game in this case. And , to say it one more time, it’s looking worse and worse.

But we can disagree. It’s all good. After all this is a thread about someone spending $1B to purchase an NHL hockey team. Panem et circences. Bread and games. The crowd is happy.

 

[bicboi64]

But we can disagree. It’s all good. After all this is a thread about someone spending $1B to purchase an NHL hockey team. Panem et circences. Bread and games. The crowd is happy.

I hate the very concept of a billionaire and wish that the ones that exist spent most of their time just buying sports teams/music venues instead of lobbying to make the world harder for the average working class person.