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Confirmed with Link: Seider signs (7 x $8.55m)

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OgeeOgelthorpe said:
Statistically they were dogshit together.

Also, the more I think about it, the more I circle back to this team needing to use those free agency bucks on a 2RD upgrade instead of on Tank and Kane. I get that Yzerman didn't want to commit long term money and spent on the short term for those guys, we have a gaping hole on right defense after Mo. I think it'll only be more evident this season.
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Well we do know that he tried to get Trouba with salary retained from New York. I get that he needed a backup plan, but I do think when we talk about this that plays into the picture. I don't think Yzerman wanted to go term lengths on some of the guys like Roy wanted, he wanted to get a guy with less years in to fill that role in my opinion.

Mo is going to shoulder a ridiculous load until Edvinsson can help take some of it off of him. I hope for the teams sake that comes quickly.
 
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The Zetterberg Era said:
Well we do know that he tried to get Trouba with salary retained from New York. I get that he needed a backup plan, but I do think when we talk about this that plays into the picture. I don't think Yzerman wanted to go term lengths on some of the guys like Roy wanted, he wanted to get a guy with less years in to fill that role in my opinion.

Mo is going to shoulder a ridiculous load until Edvinsson can help take some of it off of him. I hope for the teams sake that comes quickly.
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I understand all that. But I don't understand why it isn't a good idea on TOP of all that.

Let's say that I snap my fingers and tomorrow both Seider and Edvinsson are top pairing caliber defensemen. This roster still needs another top 4 defensemen - both due to a lack of talent from the rest of the defense, and from a standpoint of team building. (If the lottery screwed you out of any chance at a Bedard/Hughes type forward, then lean further into building an amazing defense.)

I mean, who doesn't like a defense with Seider, Edvinsson, and Roy taking the heavy lifting, somebody like Chiarot serving as a bridge with lesser minutes as the kids learn, and all of Johansson, ASP, Wallinder, and Buium on their way to one degree or another?
 
OgeeOgelthorpe said:
Statistically they were dogshit together.

Also, the more I think about it, the more I circle back to this team needing to use those free agency bucks on a 2RD upgrade instead of on Tank and Kane. I get that Yzerman didn't want to commit long term money and spent on the short term for those guys, we have a gaping hole on right defense after Mo. I think it'll only be more evident this season.
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Mediocre teams with both a short-term goal of making playoffs and committed to a long-term rebuild are not going to solve all their problems in one or two off-seasons. Wings only last year went from a bad team to a mediocre team. They aren't going to take the next step to being a good team in one off-season. They're still not at the top of the list of FA desirable destinations nor only a couple players short of being a contender. It's going to be a revolving door of at-best adequate short-term solutions while prospects develop.

We don't know that Roy for example ever wanted to come to Detroit or if there were discussions with other FAs. We don't know how close SY was to getting Trouba or if Detroit ever talked to Seattle about acquiring Larsson before he re-signed there. There was a lot of Cap uncertainty because of Raymond/Seider, Veleno going to arbitration. What seemed important to SY was keeping Kane, replacing Perron and Ghost with no drop-off, improving in goal. A 2RD was also always on that to-do list and it's the one thing that didn't get addressed, at least so far. There are trade avenues available even now with moveable salaries like Maatta and Veleno, potentially more Cap space if/when Husso goes on LTIR, a deep prospect pool. Maybe someone like Gudas or Fabbro can be acquired.

I think it all comes down to how important it is to SY to make the playoffs this season. They should be close just with the roster they have now. They can score and goaltending should be better. Edvinsson having a great season would go a long way to improving the D, better D-zone play by everyone should be an emphasis from Day 1. If 2RD is a continuing problem, maybe something can be done mid-season or at the TDL. It's very easy to second-guess things when so much had to be done and still does.
 
OldnotDeadWings said:
There was a lot of Cap uncertainty because of Raymond/Seider, Veleno going to arbitration.
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One small point of contention here. I had thought it was pretty much a given that Raymond and Seider would each sign a long term deal with the two taking up a combined $16-17M AAV, which is exactly what ended up happening. So I don't see how that aspect was either a big mystery or should have significantly impacted his plan / options.
 
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jkutswings said:
One small point of contention here. I had thought it was pretty much a given that Raymond and Seider would each sign a long term deal with the two taking up a combined $16-17M AAV, which is exactly what ended up happening. So I don't see how that aspect was either a big mystery or should have significantly impacted his plan / options.
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That's a reasonable quibble and it worked out close to what I thought it would too. But until it gets done, you can't be sure. Plenty of examples of good young players not being locked up long-term, Hedman and Stamkos were signed to five-year deals after their ELCs, Kucherov, Pettersson and McAvoy to three-year deals.
 
Now that all the new ink is drying, doesn't the One Ring to Rule Them All become this (from puckpedia)?

puckcap.JPG
 
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dalem177 said:
Now that all the new ink is drying, doesn't the One Ring to Rule Them All become this (from puckpedia)?

View attachment 908415
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Two things:

1) If I'm Simon Edvinsson, I'm smiling ear to ear to see that amount of cap space as my ELC expires.
2) We need to start planning an extensive HFB celebration for July 1, 2026. The day that Justin Abdelkader completely comes off the books.
 
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jkutswings said:
Two things:

1) If I'm Simon Edvinsson, I'm smiling ear to ear to see that amount of cap space as my ELC expires.
2) We need to start planning an extensive HFB celebration for July 1, 2026. The day that Justin Abdelkader completely comes off the books.
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Still really bothers me that they didn't LTIR him to start the season and option him down. If you keep Abby for one more year in the organization when we weren't competitive or against the cap his money would already be off the books.

Overall, I like that you can follow a lot of Yzerman's logic. There are always going to be a few issues with a certain player or the progress desired at different paces. The one thing we can all say is they have continued to make forward progress. I hope as the youth graduates from the system you do see the level of play come up.
 
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Absolutely the best take, with the worst commentary voice you will ever hear. HAHAHA.
This deal was a STEAL for the Wings! So was the Raymond contract. If Yzerman can hit on a #1 center, and get a goalie, Lord Stanley comes into focus. < They likely need one other forward who can find the net but, in the short term they have Kane and Tarasenko.



 
Love the terms for both Raymond and Seider. Perfect!! Knew Stevie would get it done. Cap hits are keeping us under the cap as well. No screwing around with the team before the season starts.
 
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Henkka said:
We have Dylan Larkin.



You can also project those cap limits to be:

88M for 2024-25
92M for 2025-26
97M for 2026-27
102M for 2027-28

All with 5% yearly growth, it could be more.
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ten thumbs typer. You are correct. I meant a #2 center. Compher isn't that player. It is why I am pulling for Danielson.
 
jkutswings said:
One small point of contention here. I had thought it was pretty much a given that Raymond and Seider would each sign a long term deal with the two taking up a combined $16-17M AAV, which is exactly what ended up happening. So I don't see how that aspect was either a big mystery or should have significantly impacted his plan / options.
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I'm actually more surprised with Seider's deal. There was no comparable for him when you factor he had 3 year's experience #1 d man. I figured he would get 9+ if he wanted to get more compensation easy. But Mo did Det a solid by taking a team friendly deal.

Raymond made a little more than I figured (7.5'sh) kinda to compensate but to get both of them for under 17 per is gonna be amazing long term for the wings.
 
odin1981 said:
I'm actually more surprised with Seider's deal. There was no comparable for him when you factor he had 3 year's experience #1 d man. I figured he would get 9+ if he wanted to get more compensation easy. But Mo did Det a solid by taking a team friendly deal.

Raymond made a little more than I figured (7.5'sh) kinda to compensate but to get both of them for under 17 per is gonna be amazing long term for the wings.
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It's still about those years.

I think it went this way:

Both had 8 years on the table, but Yzerman informed that both can't sign for 8 years. Either one has to cut a year.

Then guys did meet at Germany and solved this situation by themselves with agents.

Seider 8-year contracted value would have been ~8.98M (400k more) if I estimate that with just cap growth rate. And Raymond ~500k less.

Seider 8-year, 8.98M
Seider 7-year, 8.55M

Raymond 8-year 8.075M
Raymond 7-year 7.59M

So it was a combo of 7 and 8-year deals, one way or another.

Two 8-year deals, for 8.98M + 8.075M could not fit under the cap.

Seider 8-year, 8.98M
Raymond 7-year 7.59M

Quite sure this was also a possibility, it would have been 30k under the cap.

Finally, they did went with these:

Seider 7-year, 8.55M
Raymond 8-year 8.075M

Team got a little bit more cap room, which still can be factor at the trade deadline, when the space will start growing.

And as another factor, also those numbers did fit better on the team hierarchy.

This just went really nice way. Larkin is the top caphit etc.
 
Henkka said:
It's still about those years.

I think it went this way:

Both had 8 years on the table, but Yzerman informed that both can't sign for 8 years. Either one has to cut a year.

Then guys did meet at Germany and solved this situation by themselves with agents.

Seider 8-year contracted value would have been ~8.98M (400k more) if I estimate that with just cap growth rate. And Raymond ~500k less.

Seider 8-year, 8.98M
Seider 7-year, 8.55M

Raymond 8-year 8.075M
Raymond 7-year 7.59M

So it was a combo of 7 and 8-year deals, one way or another.

Two 8-year deals, for 8.98M + 8.075M could not fit under the cap.

Seider 8-year, 8.98M
Raymond 7-year 7.59M

Quite sure this was also a possibility, it would have been 30k under the cap.

Finally, they did went with these:

Seider 7-year, 8.55M
Raymond 8-year 8.075M

Team got a little bit more cap room, which still can be factor at the trade deadline, when the space will start growing.

And as another factor, also those numbers did fit better on the team hierarchy.

This just went really nice way. Larkin is the top caphit etc.
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I like to imagine they met at center ice and duked it out
 
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