Buffalo Bills Season's End: The Off-Seasons Starts Now

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kirby11

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Fun observation of the day: the very minute the refs started calling holding on the chiefs, the ravens were able to pressure mahommes consistently

Other fun facts: the chiefs took 4 offensive holding calls vs the ravens, with the 1st one with 26 seconds left in the 1st half. They called them the next play. And two more in the 3rd quarter. And the chiefs offense stopped working. Versus the bills they only took one. Also at the end of the first half.

Essentially the chiefs hold until the refs make them stop.
It's frustrating how often they also get away with that on defense. Spags has definitely called great games in the playoffs, and they have a lot of talent, but their DBs and linebackers also get the leeway to play super physical in a way other teams almost never do. There was one play where Sherfield tried to run a go route vs 1 on 1 coverage on the outside and was getting grabbed the entire way downfield for like 20 yards. No flag.
 
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Jim Bob

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Sorry, last post about how bad Lamar Jackson is in the playoffs.

6 games, 2-4, 6 TD passes, 6 interceptions. 9 total TDs, 9 total turnovers.

That is a really not good stat line.
In 10 playoff games, Josh Allen has 21 passing TD to 4 INTs. He has 5 rushing TD and 2 Fumbles Lost.

That is 26 TDs to 6 TOs in 10 playoff games.

But, it is Josh Allen's TOs that are what screw the Bills up in the playoffs...

Also,

In 5 playoff losses, Josh Allen has averaged 335 yds of offense and produced 10 total TDs to 3 TOs.

In 4 playoff losses, Lamar Jackson has averaged 320 yds of offense and produced 4 total TDs to 8 TOs.
 
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In 10 playoff games, Josh Allen has 21 passing TD to 4 INTs. He has 5 rushing TD and 2 Fumbles Lost.

That is 26 TDs to 6 TOs in 10 playoff games.

But, it is Josh Allen's TOs that are what screw the Bills up in the playoffs...

And one of those two “can’t get over the hump”.

Media narratives can be wild
 

tsujimoto74

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Sorry, last post about how bad Lamar Jackson is in the playoffs.

6 games, 2-4, 6 TD passes, 6 interceptions. 9 total TDs, 9 total turnovers.

That is a really not good stat line.

It will never not be funny to me that there are people who genuinely think he's a top QB in the ilk of Mahomes or Allen. He's entertaining, but dude simply does not have that kind of arm talent.
 

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TehDoak

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It will never not be funny to me that there are people who genuinely think he's a top QB in the ilk of Mahomes or Allen. He's entertaining, but dude simply does not have that kind of arm talent.

Look, Lamar is a special QB. His TD throw was amazing.

He can kill you with his legs or his arm.

The caveat being, he's not going to win you games sitting in the pocket and throwing 40 times. He's not going to pick a defense apart, especially once he gets past his first read. He's kinda like Tua is that he will hit that first read or a check down. Difference is, he can escape pressure and improvise where Tua doesn't do that.

But, when combined with a strong run game, he's deadly as anyone. He needs play action passing to really unlock his potential and hit those shot plays that puts him over the top.

He doesn't have the arm talent of Mahommes are Allen. But his elusiveness really is almost Vick-level. Where as Mahommes is slippery in the pocket and can avoid a sack and even pick up a few yards, he's not going to make a LB miss in the open field. And where Allen will have defenders just be unable to take him down. Lamar will be in the grasp, duck out of it, run one way into a defender, reverse the field, and then get a 30 yard gain out of it or hit a receiver that broke free while he was playing keep away in the back field.

The issue is that teams have simply learned to make him throw and don't over pursue.

That is what Buffalo did vs him in the past, and it's what KC did vs him. You contain it as much as you can, though, you won't even fully stop it.
 

Jim Bob

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Requiem for the Bills

Immediately after a titanic game is not the time to form permanent opinions on what you’ve just seen. I was at the Kansas City-Buffalo game last weekend and covered it from the winner’s angle. During the week, I had time to re-watch the game and consider it from Buffalo’s perspective, and I was left with one overriding question:

Why did the Bills—in the middle of their final, inexorable drive of the game—drastically change their offensive approach at the most critical moment of the season?

To refresh: Buffalo, down 27-24, got the ball back at their 20-, with 8:23 left in the game. The Bills, after a huge miss on a Josh Allen-to-Stefon Diggs bomb (Diggs missed a very catchable ball) on first down, settled into a patient, clock-eating drive, seemingly trying to either tie it or win it and leave KC with very little time left. On seven of the 15 plays on the drive with the clock moving, Allen snapped the ball with an average of 5.1 seconds remaining on the play clock. Efficient, methodical.

So, Buffalo advanced to the Kansas City 26-, at the two-minute warning. Second-and-9. Two timeouts left per team. And here’s where the line of demarcation came. The Bills had to know they were either:
  • One first down away from moving closer for a Tyler Bass field-goal try inside the 35-yard line that could have tied the game and sent it to overtime;
  • Or one first down away from scoring a touchdown with very little time left, and leaving KC needing a touchdown, likely on a long field, to win. It was vital, with how great Patrick Mahomes is down the stretch and in the clutch, to give him next-to-no time to do that.
The Bills had to know on any play that ended with the clock running, Kansas City would burn its second timeout, and then its third. So, the strategy for Buffalo was: under all circumstances, get a first down and keep the clock running. Allen—second-and-9, KC 26-, 2:00 left—surveyed the defense as he prepared to take the snap.

Second down: With a wide-open receiver running a crossing route at the KC 22- and an open receiver running an out-route at the 16-, Allen chose to try to hit Khalil Shakir in the back of the trafficky end zone. Overthrown.

Third down: Allen got chased out of the pocket to the right, and probably missed seeing two intermediate receivers shy of the first down to the left. He threw the ball away, deep.

Fourth down: Bass pushed a 44-yard field-goal attempt wide right. The Chiefs, never having to use one of their timeouts in the fourth quarter, won 27-24.

AFC Divisional Playoffs - Kansas City Chiefs v Buffalo Bills


Allen, on this drive, had flipped and thrown and side-armed completions of 7, 4, 8, 10, 6 and 7 yards. And needing a first down here, he went gunslinger. I just don’t know why. Kurt Warner, one who would know, tried to explain it a few days after the game.

“Sometimes,” Warner said, “you talk yourself into a play and say, ‘I’m gonna make this play, and this is the throw that’ll send us to the championship game,’ instead of saying, ‘I’m gonna let the defense dictate where I throw the ball.’ As a quarterback, you have to have the ability to balance those things.”

I thought Warner put it best on Allen in this game, and Allen as a player. He said, “It’s impossible to play perfect games, and Josh played an incredible game—until the end. In the end, he took some chances that wouldn’t have been what I would have done. But he chose to make those throws, and if you choose those throws, you’ve got to make ‘em. That’s part of being great. Brady, Montana, Mahomes—they have careers of making the plays in the absolute crucial times of the game. Now they’re on the Mount Rushmore of NFL quarterbacks.”

Allen is just six years into his career. He’s got much of his NFL life in front of him. He’s a smart guy. He’s one of the most talented quarterbacks ever to play in the NFL. He’s going to have plenty of chances to go deep into the playoffs, and to win a Super Bowl. But this is a crucial lesson he must learn, or he may never hold the Lombardi Trophy.
 
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TehDoak

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So, in taking some time to think about this offseason, there is probably only one path forward and its 'keep the band together' as much as we can.

I think you are probably looking at WR with your 1st round pick. And you might need to move up to get one. Essentially an in line replacement for Davis. We simply don't have the budget to go out and get a top line veteran WR or keep Davis.

After that, it's about finding fits.
 

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Woah, that description of the second down play to Shakir being overthrown and trafficky? Wasn’t that the play Shakir was open and Allen got bumped when he threw so it was under thrown?

Am I mistaken it is that article just wildly wrong on its very point? Probably me haha

Edit: nope, i rewatched it and Peter king is just flat out wrong. I like Peter king, but how in the world do you make your article about two plays and flatly mis-remember one. That’s just bad quality.

I mean, his whole point is Allen went “gunslinger mode” on 2nd and 9 and 3rd and 9. He describes this as passing up open WRs to throw to a covered Shakir in the end zone. That’s literally not what happened, Shakir was open and Allen got hit while throwing. Allen is the only QB you’ll ever see described negatively as a gunslinger for taking one shot at the endzone to a WR he can hit while losing under two minutes.
 
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Zman5778

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But his elusiveness really is almost Vick-level. Where as Mahommes is slippery in the pocket and can avoid a sack and even pick up a few yards, he's not going to make a LB miss in the open field. And where Allen will have defenders just be unable to take him down. Lamar will be in the grasp, duck out of it, run one way into a defender, reverse the field, and then get a 30 yard gain out of it or hit a receiver that broke free while he was playing keep away in the back field.

The issue is that teams have simply learned to make him throw and don't over pursue.

In my opinion, Jackson is the best running QB ever. He's just as fast as Vick, just as elusive....and can absolutely run someone over just like Allen can. He's just as hard to bring down as Newton was/Josh is. If you give Jackson a chance to beat you with his legs, he will.

That said, he's also just as easy to limit. As you say -- make him beat you with his arm. Until he can beat a team with just his arm, his teams will struggle in the playoffs.
 
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misterchainsaw

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Woah, that description of the second down play to Shakir being overthrown and trafficky? Wasn’t that the play Shakir was open and Allen got bumped when he threw so it was under thrown?

Am I mistaken it is that article just wildly wrong on its very point? Probably me haha

Edit: nope, i rewatched it and Peter king is just flat out wrong. I like Peter king, but how in the world do you make your article about two plays and flatly mis-remember one. That’s just bad quality.

I mean, his whole point is Allen went “gunslinger mode” on 2nd and 9 and 3rd and 9. He describes this as passing up open WRs to throw to a covered Shakir in the end zone. That’s literally not what happened, Shakir was open and Allen got hit while throwing. Allen is the only QB you’ll ever see described negatively as a gunslinger for taking one shot at the endzone to a WR he can hit while losing under two minutes.
He did throw it into the teeth of the defense though (it was under thrown, not overthrown). Shakir ran a great route and got open, but there were 3 Chiefs in the direct area. The coverage should have probavly dictated the ball go elsewhere, but Shakir ran a great route and got open anyway. Those aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.
 

Der Jaeger

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It may not be 1st round...but they've spent 2 2nd rounders in recent years (Skyy Moore, Rashee Rice) and traded another day 2 pick for former 1st rounder Kadarius Toney. Obviously Moore and Toney busted, but Rice has become an essential piece of their run this postseason.

In other words, sure, it wasn't the 1st round, but they have invested draft capital in WR (even if the results is a mixed bag). It's not exactly like they've just punted on getting playmakers either.
They also gave MVS a big contract and took a savvy flyer on Juju last year. Their problem is more missing a lot than lack of investment. And even so, they took enough shots that they landed some hits amongst the sour
Kansas City is in the Super Bowl for the second straight year without a true #1 wide receiver and without spending a #1 pick on a receiver.

Rice: picked 55th overall. KC could've used an OT but the list of BPA was mostly interior OL.
Moore: picked 54th overall. Moore was probably the BPA at that point.

MVS caught 21 balls for 315 yards and a TD.... at the bargain basement price of $9M this season, and 6th biggest contract on the Chiefs.

The previous season, the Chiefs pulled Smith Schuster off the free agent bargain basket for 1 year at $3.75M. He rewarded them with a 78 catch, 933 yard, and 3 TD season. He then "outpriced" himself and went to New England for a 3 year contract about the same as what the Chiefs gave MVS. In New Englad, he had 29 catches for 260 yards and a TD, though he only played 11 games. But he wasn't ever fulfilling that contract.

Meanwhile, the Chiefs keep rolling along. Why?

Mahomes. He's a terrific decision maker and accurate thrower who just throws to open receivers, whoever they are.

Kelce. He's the #1 receiver from the tight end position, which means the Chiefs don't have to spend a lot on receivers, even though they do at times.

Reid. His horizontal timing offense schemes players open, so they don't need to have a player edge at every position.

Buffalo isn't that far off from this model. Allen is improving in his decision making and made a big leap forward with Brady. Kincaid is about to step into that elite #1 receiving TE discussion. And Brady had a very good first season as OC.

So let's get to the core of the argument. Do I think Beane needs to add a receiver or two. Sure. If you look at my mock drafts, I consistently mock Brendan Rice to Bills in the second round.

Do I ascribe to the reactive fan argument that Buffalo needs to draft a receiver in the 1st round? No. Do I ascribe to the the reactive fan argument that adding a player like Mike Evans is the key to getting to the Super Bowl? No. Not when Beane has to figure out how to get cap compliant, and even then he'll still have huge roster holes on the defensive line and safety. Which adding a receiver won't help.

There's a world of difference between acknowledging a need, evaluating it against other needs in the whole of the organization, and addressing it accordingly..... and the "Bills must draft a receiver in the 1st round" fan argument.
 
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Jim Bob

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Woah, that description of the second down play to Shakir being overthrown and trafficky? Wasn’t that the play Shakir was open and Allen got bumped when he threw so it was under thrown?

Am I mistaken it is that article just wildly wrong on its very point? Probably me haha

Edit: nope, i rewatched it and Peter king is just flat out wrong. I like Peter king, but how in the world do you make your article about two plays and flatly mis-remember one. That’s just bad quality.

I mean, his whole point is Allen went “gunslinger mode” on 2nd and 9 and 3rd and 9. He describes this as passing up open WRs to throw to a covered Shakir in the end zone. That’s literally not what happened, Shakir was open and Allen got hit while throwing. Allen is the only QB you’ll ever see described negatively as a gunslinger for taking one shot at the endzone to a WR he can hit while losing under two minutes.
This and the discussion on WGR this morning about this play were annoying.

The WGR guys completely discounted the idea that the progression on the play was high (Shakir) to low (Diggs) and because Shakir was open in the end zone, Allen never got to Diggs. Whether it is left to right, right to left, high to low, or low to high, every pass play tends to have a logical order of reads 1, 2, 3, etc. on a passing play. Fans and media do not have access to the design of a play, but there are clues as to what the play design is.

I doubt this was Allen "going gunslinger" as much as it was a high to low read and Allen took the shot because Shakir was open in the end zone.

And they miss me with the "you would be scoring too quickly" stuff. When you are down 3 and you are inside 2 minutes, take any TD you can get, IMO.
 

Jim Bob

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Kansas City is in the Super Bowl for the second straight year without a true #1 wide receiver and without spending a #1 pick on a receiver.

Rice: picked 55th overall. KC could've used an OT but the list of BPA was mostly interior OL.
Moore: picked 54th overall. Moore was probably the BPA at that point.

MVS caught 21 balls for 315 yards and a TD.... at the bargain basement price of $9M this season, and 6th biggest contract on the Chiefs.

The previous season, the Chiefs pulled Smith Schuster off the free agent bargain basket for 1 year at $3.75M. He rewarded them with a 78 catch, 933 yard, and 3 TD season. He then outpriced himself and went to New England for a 3 year contract about the same as what the Chiefs gave MVS. 29 catches for 260 yards and a TD, though he only played 11 games. But he wasn't ever fulfilling that contract.

Meanwhile, the Chiefs keep rolling along. Why?

Mahomes. He's a terrific decision maker and accurate thrower who just throws to open receivers, whoever they are.

Kelce. He's the #1 receiver from the tight end position, which means the Chiefs don't have to spend a lot on receivers, even though they do at times.

Reid. His horizontal timing offense schemes players open, so they don't need to have a player edge at every position.

Buffalo isn't that far off from this model. Allen is improving in his decision making and made a big leap forward with Brady. Kincaid is about to step into that elite #1 receiving TE discussion. And Brady had a very good first season as OC.

So let's get to the core of the argument. Do I think Beane needs to add a receiver or two. Sure. If you look at my mock drafts, I consistently mock Brendan Rice to Bills in the second round.

Do I ascribe to the reactive fan argument that Buffalo needs to draft a receiver in the 1st round? No. Do I ascribe to the the reactive fan argument that adding a player like Mike Evans is the key to getting to the Super Bowl? No. Not when Beane has to figure out how to get cap compliant, and even then he'll still have huge roster holes on the defensive line and safety. Which adding a receiver won't help.

There's a world of difference between acknowledging a need, evaluating it against other needs in the whole of the organization, and addressing it accordingly..... and the "Bills must draft a receiver in the 1st round" fan argument.
I am not a fan of trying to copy another team's recipe.

GMs and coaches need to come up with a recipe that works for the core guys they have. I think a deep threat WR that can actually track and catch deep shots is a huge need for this offense. If he is also really good at getting separation quickly and is then a YAC threat with the ball in his hands, even better.

But, they certainly will have huge needs at both the DT, especially 1T, and DE spots that will need early investments, as well.

I'm not locked into any one position for the Bills in the 1st round. But, we have also seen Beane go after positions in the first round of the last two drafts that made sense given the team needs entering the draft. So, I doubt we will be too surprised this year, either.
 

Dubi Doo

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He did throw it into the teeth of the defense though (it was under thrown, not overthrown). Shakir ran a great route and got open, but there were 3 Chiefs in the direct area. The coverage should have probavly dictated the ball go elsewhere, but Shakir ran a great route and got open anyway. Those aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.
I'd like to say I'm educated enough in football to say whose right, but lying makes me feel guilty. From what I remember reading last week- the defense presented to Allen should've had him looking to the Diggs crossing route. I'd love to read more about it, though. If Allen isn't bumped- that probably is a TD.
 

Jim Bob

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I'd like to say I'm educated enough in football to say whose right, but lying makes me feel guilty. From what I remember reading last week- the defense presented to Allen should've had him looking to the Diggs crossing route. I'd love to read more about it, though. If Allen isn't bumped- that probably is a TD.
Most of the analysis I have seen about that play has been more reactionary and "it didn't work, so they should have done this other thing" than "it was a stupid decision and he turned down Diggs and the easy play underneath".

Throughout this season, Allen tried forcing stuff down the field to guys that weren't open. That was absolutely not the case on this one. This was an execution error and not an error in decision making, IMO.
 

Dirty Dog

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This and the discussion on WGR this morning about this play were annoying.

The WGR guys completely discounted the idea that the progression on the play was high (Shakir) to low (Diggs) and because Shakir was open in the end zone, Allen never got to Diggs. Whether it is left to right, right to left, high to low, or low to high, every pass play tends to have a logical order of reads 1, 2, 3, etc. on a passing play. Fans and media do not have access to the design of a play, but there are clues as to what the play design is.

I doubt this was Allen "going gunslinger" as much as it was a high to low read and Allen took the shot because Shakir was open in the end zone.

And they miss me with the "you would be scoring too quickly" stuff. When you are down 3 and you are inside 2 minutes, take any TD you can get, IMO.
It kills me! I totally get the idea that you don’t want to score too fast. I get it. And the bills were executing it to perfection. But you cannot blame a QB for taking a TD with under two minutes and losing. You just can’t.

And if he doesn’t get bumped, that’s probably a TD. Saying Allen was being immature, dumb, or a gunslinger because of that is just wild. I have never ever seen a QB criticized for that.

He did throw it into the teeth of the defense though (it was under thrown, not overthrown). Shakir ran a great route and got open, but there were 3 Chiefs in the direct area. The coverage should have probavly dictated the ball go elsewhere, but Shakir ran a great route and got open anyway. Those aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.
Totally, but failing to describe Shakir as open is what I was criticizing by King. Totally misrepresenting what happened.

(As was failing to say Allen got hit). Makes me wonder if King even watched the play rather than getting some inaccurate notes from an NBC intern

And I usually like king!
 
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misterchainsaw

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It kills me! I totally get the idea that you don’t want to score too fast. I get it. And the bills were executing it to perfection. But you cannot blame a QB for taking a TD with under two minutes and losing. You just can’t.

And if he doesn’t get bumped, that’s probably a TD. Saying Allen was being immature, dumb, or a gunslinger because of that is just wild. I have never ever seen a QB criticized for that.


Totally, but failing to describe Shakir as open is what I was criticizing by King. Totally misrepresenting what happened.

(As was failing to say Allen got hit). Makes me wonder if King even watched the play rather than getting some inaccurate notes from an NBC intern

And I usually like king!
Well, Allen didn't really get hit either. He couldn't step into the throw because of Jones' power rush against Dawkins, but he also doesn't lay a finger on him.
 

Der Jaeger

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I am not a fan of trying to copy another team's recipe.

GMs and coaches need to come up with a recipe that works for the core guys they have. I think a deep threat WR that can actually track and catch deep shots is a huge need for this offense. If he is also really good at getting separation quickly and is then a YAC threat with the ball in his hands, even better.

But, they certainly will have huge needs at both the DT, especially 1T, and DE spots that will need early investments, as well.

I'm not locked into any one position for the Bills in the 1st round. But, we have also seen Beane go after positions in the first round of the last two drafts that made sense given the team needs entering the draft. So, I doubt we will be too surprised this year, either.
I'm not big into the model copying either, but that's where Buffalo is headed. You don't spend a 1st on Kincaid, when you already have Knox, without the intentions of heading into a tight end centric offense. When you're watching the Chiefs and 49ers do it, why not?

To make my position clear, I've wrote on these boards many times that compressing an offense into shorter routes is akin to a death sentence. So teams do need to address the outside X receiver who can pull coverage deep. What's the solution to that?

In KC, it's been trying to get bargains through free agency and trades (aside from signing MVS, which was a dumb allocation of cap space), and drafting players like Moore.

For the Brady Pats, they brought in a parade of X receivers who got the job done: Brandon Tate, Brandon Lloyd, Brandon LaFell, Chris Hogan, Malcolm Mitchell, Brandin Cooks, Phillip Dorsett, Mohammed Sanu, Josh Gordon, Jakobi Meyers, and bunch of receivers who had a few catches.

In that same time frame, which is post-Randy Moss, their greatest allocation to WR was a 1st (N'Keal Harry, bust) and a 2nd (Aaron Dobson). Elite QB, elite TE, elite OC.

I rate DL and safety as far, far bigger needs than a fast X receiver. Look at who's on the roster for 2025. You've got at least Diggs and Shakir at receiver. The safeties have no one and the DL is Miller, Rousseau, and Oliver. Way, way bigger needs.

I'm not locked into anyone at 28. If a highly rated receiver falls, and he's BPA, sure, take him. But there a lot of fans who are locked in on a receiver at 28, come hell or high water. And all I'm pointing out is that's a terrible approach.
 
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