Buffalo Bills Season's End: The Off-Seasons Starts Now

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Dirty Dog

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With a QB like Allen, having a veteran backup that is good in the QB room is more important than getting a kid in there. I fully expect the run of Josh Allen BFFs at backup QB to continue.

But, we shall see.

Well they moved on to more expensive options the last two years with Trubisky and Kyle Allen. And I don’t think they can do that anymore. Though if Kyle Allen wants to come back cheap, that would be fine.

But yea I agree for the most part. Which is why if they do draft someone they like, I think there will be someone like Barkley as a third or on the practice squad to be that Vet.

In the end though I think you’re right and we won’t see a QB drafted until next year at the earliest.
 

paulmm3

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Don't know what happened to Diggs but he fell off a cliff quick these last 10 weeks. He was a hot commodity to start the season - now his contract makes him un-tradeable and he basically assumes Christian Ehrhoff or Albert Haynesworth status. He'll be back with the Bills and get a chance to un-f*** himself next year because we can't cut him and no one else will take the contract
 
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truthbluth

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Don't know what happened to Diggs but he fell off a cliff quick these last 10 weeks. He was a hot commodity to start the season - now his contract makes him un-tradeable and he basically assumes Christian Ehrhoff or Albert Haynesworth status. He'll be back with the Bills and get a chance to un-f*** himself next year because we can't cut him and no one else will take the contract
He’s neither untradeble nor uncutable. Post June 1 cut pushes $22mil in dead cap to 2025, which is still $5 mill cap savings. $20 mill savings in 2024.
 

Husko

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My way too early offseason plan:

Our Priority UFAs
-Davis: Let walk unless he completely strikes out in FA and comes back on a very cheap deal
-Epenesa: The only one I actually consider re-signing if it's an affordable deal, because he's young and semaingly ascending. I imagine he prices himself out, though.
-Floyd: Let walk, we can't be giving anoher over 30 DE a big money deal
-Hyde: I think he retires, but I'm not re-signing him even if it's for vet minimum. He had a great year, but we need to turn the page on this defenses age
-Dane Jackson: I'm fine with him coming back if it's for clear backup money, but hopfully someone pays him to be. starter
-Daquan Jones: I'd lik him back, but for no more than one season. He's old. Our defense needs to be less old. Hopefully someone pays him handsomely.

*If all or most of these guys sign real FA contacts with other teams, and we can't afford to do much, we're going to get several comp picks in 2025.

Non-Priority UFAs
-RBs Johnson, Lat, and Harris: I'd be fine with any of them back for vet minimum. Johnson was a nice addition down the stretch. Lat looked really toast by the end of the year and hopefully they can find pass blocking in someone that can do other things. Harris should be dirt cheap and I'm sure they still want a power back, so no harm in letting him compete.
-DL Phillips, Shaq, Ford, Joseph, Settle: I want them mostly all gone. Need to turn the page. If someone like Shaq or Phillips loves it here and wants to compete for a roster spot on a nonguaranteed deal, fine. But we can't count on the old men anymore. Joseph I thought was very good, but he's not signing anywhere until December.
-Rapp: I thought it was mostly a failed experiment with him
-Sherfield: Despite the bad drops, I actually liked what I saw out of him down the stretch, especially as a blocker. Not the worst option as a poor man's Gabe replacement
-Matakevich: New rule for ST specialists, if they can't even get on the field when there are 5 injuries at their actual position, they shouldn't be on the roster.
-Dodson: I'm fine with him coming back as a backup/3rd LB for running downs. But I wonder if a team that cares more about the defending the run actually pays him starting money.

External UFAs
-Basically, unless there's a chance to land a truly elite player, at the right age, to be a true difference maker (that list for me would be Brian Burns, Winfield Jr., and maybe Christian Wilkins, all of whom I expect are far out of our price range) I wouldn't sign any FAs over the comp formula threshold. Stocking those comp picks should be priority #1 here. Some cheaper guys I have my eye on:
-Noah Brown: Assuming Gabe is gone, something the team will prioritize is a WR with plus blocking ability. I'm fine with that, but that guy doesn't need to be our #2 WR. Brown is a sort of do it all gritty WR that blocks well and also brings good WR depth and some gadget ability. I think he'd be a perfect fit as a #4 (Shakir and a rookie as 2/3).
-Some mediocre CBs they think can play S: I don't know the names. But this is how we found Hyde and Poyer. Can we do it again?
-LB depth that actually fits our scheme and isn't AJ Klein
-Lots of DL dart throws. Sign like 10 of them. The room is going to be wide open, take some dart throws.

Cut candidates
-Von (only if suspended and we can get out of his guarantees)
-Tre White ($6 million saved): Hard to justify paying your injured #3 CB top of market money. If he'd take a pay cut down to close to just his guaranteed money, converting him to FS could be an interesting long term solution. But why would he do that?
-Mitch Morse ($8 million saved): I don't think they cut him. But the alternative is probably restructuring and pushing that 8 million down the road. And part of me wonders if they should just cut bait while hey can. He says he's not retiring though.
-Poyer ($5 million saved): A no brainer to be. He was baaaaad when he played actual safety. If he loves Buffalo so much that he wants to stick around for $2 million as a dime LB fine. But his safety days are behind him.
-Harty: ($4 million saved): No brainer.
-Hines: ($5 million saved): No brainer.
-Neal ($3 million saved) and Gilliam ($2 million saved): Should be no brainers, but this is the Bills we're talking about. See above what I wrote about Matakevich

Restructure/Extension
-Allen: Can open up like $20 million in savings by pushing his base salary. I know the whole idea here is not to push too much money, but they need to get cap compliant
-Douglas and Taron: I expect them both to get extensions which will free up cap space the next two years. Fine with it, they're both in their primes and important pieces to the defense.
-Knox: This will be controversial for those that want him gone, but he's not going anywhere. More likely, they restructure his base salary, bring his cap hit down, and commit further to him.
-Dawkins: This is the hardest decision. He had a great year, but he's getting older. He's always had to cheat a little because his first step is kind of slow. If he loses just a little will he become a liability to get beat with speed? Can free up a lot of money by extending him though.
-Von, Milano, and Diggs all have a lot of money to be freed up by extending/restructuring them. I don't even consider it. Too old and/or injured.

Draft
Way too early for me to know names, but positions I'm targeting are WR, S, and DL. We're actually in pretty good shape everywhere else. OL if there's value on the board.
 

Selanne00008

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He’s neither untradeble nor uncutable. Post June 1 cut pushes $22mil in dead cap to 2025, which is still $5 mill cap savings. $20 mill savings in 2024.

The post June trade/cut would be rare though right? Most skilled players are set and on their team well before June. Can you be way over the cap and just cut a player come June 2nd to become cap compliant?

Unless there is a handshake deal with a team before june?

Von is tricky. He's more of a negative asset than Diggs is for sure. But, can he continue his strength/conditioning and become actually useful his last year in Buffalo? They need to know that now and forecast if he can do it. I feel like the last couple weeks is almost like an audition if he can still cut it.
 

buffa dud

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I read that the Giants are requesting an interview with Babich, the Bills' linebacker coach, for DC. I wonder if the Bills promote him instead, and pursue Luke Keuchly as Babich's replacement.
 

paulmm3

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He’s neither untradeble nor uncutable. Post June 1 cut pushes $22mil in dead cap to 2025, which is still $5 mill cap savings. $20 mill savings in 2024.

We'll see. I think Diggs' contract will make it very difficult to trade or cut the guy.

But we have an easy test. If he's still on the roster week 1, I'm right. After last off-season, then Diggs playing poorly and getting trashed by fans this year, he has to want out of Buffalo badly. Similar, a front office in cap hell with a negative value asset like Diggs has to want that asset off the books. If Diggs is a Buffalo Bill next year, it's because his contract makes both the Bills and Diggs stuck.
 

Der Jaeger

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PFF / PFF Big Board - PFN Mock draft

1-28: Jordan Morgan OT Arizona. It's a toss up for me between Morgan and the two safeties who will be available at 28, Kamren Kitchens and Tyler Nubin. I like Kitchens better of the two. But Morgan was BPA on the board, Dawkins isn't getting younger, and he's going to be expensive to keep as an older OT.

2-60: Brendan Rice WR USC. X receiver with size, speed, and great hands. He's the vertical threat to keep defenses from collapsing down on the shorter zones. Rice won't grade out as well as higher ranked receivers in this draft, but he could be a better pro.

3-99: McKinnley Jackson DT Texas A&M. NT type who clogs the run and has good movement skills.

4-128: Braiden McGregor DE Michigan. LE type with length and movement skills. High effort guy who could surprise.

5-158: James Williams S Miami, Fla. Hybrid safety type who can play nickel, box safety, or deep safety.

5-161: Beaux Limmer C Arkansas. Poor-man's Creed Humphries, will score well on RAS.

6:197: Keith Randolph DT Illinois. Taller DT with some Jordan Phillips like traits.

6-201: Steve Linton DE Texas Tech. Twitchy pass rusher with speed to bend the edge.

6-205: Bryce Foster IOL Texas A&M. Another high RAS lineman. Could also go with JJ Weaver in this spot, the DE from Kentucky. Weaver is a high energy end who is tough as nails.

7-245: Zion Nelson OL Miami, Fla. Jason Peters type athleticism without the production at Miami.
 
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Der Jaeger

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I doubt they go with a roster reset until they make the decision to move on from McD. And that is not happening this offseason.


Plus, your "hard reset" leaves them with 37 players signed and $5M in cap space to fill out 16 roster spots (That 48 player roster number is not accurate with 11 futures guys counted in there for $0 contracts). And even that 37 number is inflated because it has guys on void years, like Leonard Floyd, accounted for in that roster.

That is not possible, even with vet minimum guys and guys on rookie deals.
I don't think a hard reset requires them to move away from McDermott. Belichick hard reset his defense after the 2007 Super Bowl loss, and then hard reset his offense after the 2nd Giants Super Bowl loss.

I think Beane and McDermott have to answer this question:

Can the current roster, with the required cuts, and with draft reinforcements, win the Super Bowl?

If the answer is yes, then they don't hard reset. They cut players, and re-structure others, add rookies, and go back at it.

If the answer is no, then they at least have to consider the hard reset option.

Even a hard reset option leaves some pieces. Allen will still be behind the same offensive line and with most of the same receivers. And Cook is still running behind that line. It's not a bad way to rebuild.
 

Jim Bob

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I don't think a hard reset requires them to move away from McDermott. Belichick hard reset his defense after the 2007 Super Bowl loss, and then hard reset his offense after the 2nd Giants Super Bowl loss.

I think Beane and McDermott have to answer this question:

Can the current roster, with the required cuts, and with draft reinforcements, win the Super Bowl?

If the answer is yes, then they don't hard reset. They cut players, and re-structure others, add rookies, and go back at it.

If the answer is no, then they at least have to consider the hard reset option.

Even a hard reset option leaves some pieces. Allen will still be behind the same offensive line and with most of the same receivers. And Cook is still running behind that line. It's not a bad way to rebuild.
McD has at least as much power in determining the path the team takes as Beane. I do not see him being down with taking a reset at this point in time. Especially with all the drama this season when they were 6-6 and the Dunne article.

McD will want this roster to be as competitive as possible until they at least get to a single SB with him as coach.

That's why I think the more likely approach would be to hit reset and take their cap medicine in the same offseason as they make a change at head coach. The new coach will likely want to remake a chunk of the roster and the two things can line up together.
 

Der Jaeger

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McD has at least as much power in determining the path the team takes as Beane. I do not see him being down with taking a reset at this point in time. Especially with all the drama this season when they were 6-6 and the Dunne article.

McD will want this roster to be as competitive as possible until they at least get to a single SB with him as coach.

That's why I think the more likely approach would be to hit reset and take their cap medicine in the same offseason as they make a change at head coach. The new coach will likely want to remake a chunk of the roster and the two things can line up together.
Agree on a lot of this. I do think the hard reset is possible though. It's at least got to be on the table for Beane and McDermott to talk through. The cap issues and age of the roster really make is at least a consideration.

Bills version 1 under Allen is over. Bills version 2 is about to begin. I think Allen gets 3-4 different versions of the Bills as long as he's healthy.
 

Jim Bob

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Agree on a lot of this. I do think the hard reset is possible though. It's at least got to be on the table for Beane and McDermott to talk through. The cap issues and age of the roster really make is at least a consideration.

Bills version 1 under Allen is over. Bills version 2 is about to begin. I think Allen gets 3-4 different versions of the Bills as long as he's healthy.
Yeah, I think a reset this offseason is more in the "possible" bucket than the "probable" bucket is all.

The same as things like moving on from McD or Brady or a handful of players that a bunch of people would like to see gone.
 

Zman5778

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My way too early offseason plan:

Our Priority UFAs
-Davis: Let walk unless he completely strikes out in FA and comes back on a very cheap deal
-Epenesa: The only one I actually consider re-signing if it's an affordable deal, because he's young and semaingly ascending. I imagine he prices himself out, though.
-Floyd: Let walk, we can't be giving anoher over 30 DE a big money deal
-Hyde: I think he retires, but I'm not re-signing him even if it's for vet minimum. He had a great year, but we need to turn the page on this defenses age
-Dane Jackson: I'm fine with him coming back if it's for clear backup money, but hopfully someone pays him to be. starter
-Daquan Jones: I'd lik him back, but for no more than one season. He's old. Our defense needs to be less old. Hopefully someone pays him handsomely.

*If all or most of these guys sign real FA contacts with other teams, and we can't afford to do much, we're going to get several comp picks in 2025.

Non-Priority UFAs
-RBs Johnson, Lat, and Harris: I'd be fine with any of them back for vet minimum. Johnson was a nice addition down the stretch. Lat looked really toast by the end of the year and hopefully they can find pass blocking in someone that can do other things. Harris should be dirt cheap and I'm sure they still want a power back, so no harm in letting him compete.
-DL Phillips, Shaq, Ford, Joseph, Settle: I want them mostly all gone. Need to turn the page. If someone like Shaq or Phillips loves it here and wants to compete for a roster spot on a nonguaranteed deal, fine. But we can't count on the old men anymore. Joseph I thought was very good, but he's not signing anywhere until December.
-Rapp: I thought it was mostly a failed experiment with him
-Sherfield: Despite the bad drops, I actually liked what I saw out of him down the stretch, especially as a blocker. Not the worst option as a poor man's Gabe replacement
-Matakevich: New rule for ST specialists, if they can't even get on the field when there are 5 injuries at their actual position, they shouldn't be on the roster.
-Dodson: I'm fine with him coming back as a backup/3rd LB for running downs. But I wonder if a team that cares more about the defending the run actually pays him starting money.

External UFAs
-Basically, unless there's a chance to land a truly elite player, at the right age, to be a true difference maker (that list for me would be Brian Burns, Winfield Jr., and maybe Christian Wilkins, all of whom I expect are far out of our price range) I wouldn't sign any FAs over the comp formula threshold. Stocking those comp picks should be priority #1 here. Some cheaper guys I have my eye on:
-Noah Brown: Assuming Gabe is gone, something the team will prioritize is a WR with plus blocking ability. I'm fine with that, but that guy doesn't need to be our #2 WR. Brown is a sort of do it all gritty WR that blocks well and also brings good WR depth and some gadget ability. I think he'd be a perfect fit as a #4 (Shakir and a rookie as 2/3).
-Some mediocre CBs they think can play S: I don't know the names. But this is how we found Hyde and Poyer. Can we do it again?
-LB depth that actually fits our scheme and isn't AJ Klein
-Lots of DL dart throws. Sign like 10 of them. The room is going to be wide open, take some dart throws.

Cut candidates
-Von (only if suspended and we can get out of his guarantees)
-Tre White ($6 million saved): Hard to justify paying your injured #3 CB top of market money. If he'd take a pay cut down to close to just his guaranteed money, converting him to FS could be an interesting long term solution. But why would he do that?
-Mitch Morse ($8 million saved): I don't think they cut him. But the alternative is probably restructuring and pushing that 8 million down the road. And part of me wonders if they should just cut bait while hey can. He says he's not retiring though.
-Poyer ($5 million saved): A no brainer to be. He was baaaaad when he played actual safety. If he loves Buffalo so much that he wants to stick around for $2 million as a dime LB fine. But his safety days are behind him.
-Harty: ($4 million saved): No brainer.
-Hines: ($5 million saved): No brainer.
-Neal ($3 million saved) and Gilliam ($2 million saved): Should be no brainers, but this is the Bills we're talking about. See above what I wrote about Matakevich

Restructure/Extension
-Allen: Can open up like $20 million in savings by pushing his base salary. I know the whole idea here is not to push too much money, but they need to get cap compliant
-Douglas and Taron: I expect them both to get extensions which will free up cap space the next two years. Fine with it, they're both in their primes and important pieces to the defense.
-Knox: This will be controversial for those that want him gone, but he's not going anywhere. More likely, they restructure his base salary, bring his cap hit down, and commit further to him.
-Dawkins: This is the hardest decision. He had a great year, but he's getting older. He's always had to cheat a little because his first step is kind of slow. If he loses just a little will he become a liability to get beat with speed? Can free up a lot of money by extending him though.
-Von, Milano, and Diggs all have a lot of money to be freed up by extending/restructuring them. I don't even consider it. Too old and/or injured.

Draft
Way too early for me to know names, but positions I'm targeting are WR, S, and DL. We're actually in pretty good shape everywhere else. OL if there's value on the board.
My comments on your plan, in the order you presented them:
1.) Floyd and Jones are older.......but as long as they're being reasonable about their salary demands, I'm all for re-signing them. Jones especially. But again, their numbers have to be REASONABLE. Like 1 or 2 year deals with only a minimal raise, if any.
2.) I can't picture AJE staying here, unless he REALLY wants to be here. I truly think he's priced himself out of Buffalo.
3.) I think Davis follows the Levi Wallace thing -- we're going to be shocked and laugh at how much another team is going to give him.
4.) Ty Johnson I want back, as long as he's being reasonable with his salary. Then I'd take a RB on Day 3 that is more of a bruiser type.
5.) A guy you missed is David Edwards. He was quite effective down the stretch as that 6th OL that declared as eligible. Again, if he's being reasonable with his salary, I want him back.
6.) Totally agreed on the "throw darts" at the D-Line strat. The only thing is if we're going to do that -- I'd like another bona fide starter next to Oliver. Going into next season with a big-ass question mark next to Oliver is very likely a major problem waiting to happen.
7.) Totally agreed on your cut list........but I am completely and totally on the fence about Morse. I am SUPER hesitant to push any of his money down the road given his injury history, but it's something we might need to do. He was super solid this past year, but the decline is coming.
8.) My thought with Dawkins is this: Dawkins probably has at least another year as a very-good LT. Spencer Brown's a UFA after next year. Extend Dawkins, and if he slips....he gets pushed to RT as we re-load with a younger LT, likely with a day 1 or 2 pick in the 2025 draft. Let Brown leave after next year.
9.) Just like you, I want us to come out of Days 1 and 2 with a WR, S and DT.

Beane's got a lot of hard work and hard decisions to make...........going 5 in a row at the top of the East isn't going to be easy.
 
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Zman5778

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Agree on a lot of this. I do think the hard reset is possible though. It's at least got to be on the table for Beane and McDermott to talk through.

I'm pretty sure the discussion goes like this: "Do you want to kind of re-load this year?" "Nope, I believe in this group."

I just cannot picture McBeane going for a hard reset this offseason. Just can't see it at all. MAYBE they think about it next year. But......it just strikes me as something that isn't in any sort of real discussion this year.
 
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Husko

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My comments on your plan, in the order you presented them:
1.) Floyd and Jones are older.......but as long as they're being reasonable about their salary demands, I'm all for re-signing them. Jones especially. But again, their numbers have to be REASONABLE. Like 1 or 2 year deals with only a minimal raise, if any.
2.) I can't picture AJE staying here, unless he REALLY wants to be here. I truly think he's priced himself out of Buffalo.
3.) I think Davis follows the Levi Wallace thing -- we're going to be shocked and laugh at how much another team is going to give him.
4.) Ty Johnson I want back, as long as he's being reasonable with his salary. Then I'd take a RB on Day 3 that is more of a bruiser type.
5.) A guy you missed is David Edwards. He was quite effective down the stretch as that 6th OL that declared as eligible. Again, if he's being reasonable with his salary, I want him back.
6.) Totally agreed on the "throw darts" at the D-Line strat. The only thing is if we're going to do that -- I'd like another bona fide starter next to Oliver. Going into next season with a big-ass question mark next to Oliver is very likely a major problem waiting to happen.
7.) Totally agreed on your cut list........but I am completely and totally on the fence about Morse. I am SUPER hesitant to push any of his money down the road given his injury history, but it's something we might need to do. He was super solid this past year, but the decline is coming.
8.) My thought with Dawkins is this: Dawkins probably has at least another year as a very-good LT. Spencer Brown's a UFA after next year. Extend Dawkins, and if he slips....he gets pushed to RT as we re-load with a younger LT, likely with a day 1 or 2 pick in the 2025 draft. Let Brown leave after next year.
9.) Just like you, I want us to come out of Days 1 and 2 with a WR, S and DT.

Beane's got a lot of hard work and hard decisions to make...........going 5 in a row at the top of the East isn't going to be easy.
I expect they will be "reasonable" in that they would sign their market rate deals here if we want them. I just don't expect their market rate deals to be anything we can afford, unless we're going to keep going "all in" on this current core by pushing all the Allen/Diggs/Von money into the future.
 

Jim Bob

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I'm pretty sure the discussion goes like this: "Do you want to kind of re-load this year?" "Nope, I believe in this group."

I just cannot picture McBeane going for a hard reset this offseason. Just can't see it at all. MAYBE they think about it next year. But......it just strikes me as something that isn't in any sort of real discussion this year.


That first bullet ends any hard reset this offseason ideas to me.
 

Husko

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Yep. I mean, it can be a fun idea to banter about with other fans...........but the reality of the situation is that there isn't a "hard reset" really under consideration this offseason.
I think that's more about what you call it. They won't say "hard reset." But I do think they're going to cut Tre, Poyer, and other cap-saving options (but not Morse) and try to limit pushing money into the future as much as possible. But yeah, think more Chief 2022 than Bills 2018.


I for one am shocked Beane didn't say "nope, he's washed, more of a 2/3" when asked this question about the guy he's paying over 20 million a year to.

Imagine wasting your question at a PC on something like that.
 
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