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Confirmed with Link: Schmid and Holtz traded to VGK for Paul Cotter and 2025 3rd rounder

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Jersey Fresh

Video Et Taceo
Feb 23, 2004
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People really need to separate the question of value from fit. Holtz had no place on this team and we practically couldn’t give him away in any deal over the past two years. Yeah, as it relates to value this deal is an L, but as far as the team is concerned, we got a guy we can plug and forget on the bottom six in return for a guy with no role here.

I’m more intrigued by the fact that they threw Schmid away. I guess they think Daws/Poulter have a higher chance of being a future contributor.
 
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SteveCangialosi123

SteveCangialosi123

Registered User
Feb 17, 2012
28,790
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MasterofGrond said:
I'm not going to say "man drafting Holtz was a mistake" yes obviously, we should have drafted somebody else. Bad draft picks happy to everybody, and this one definitely hurts

But I really feel like we played out the string on him, well after we had the opportunity to cut bait and get something other than this deal for him.
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We did try to include him in multiple deals, remember. He just wasn’t wanted.
 
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Triumph

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Oct 2, 2007
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MasterofGrond said:
I'm not going to say "man drafting Holtz was a mistake" yes obviously, we should have drafted somebody else. Bad draft picks happy to everybody, and this one definitely hurts

But I really feel like we played out the string on him, well after we had the opportunity to cut bait and get something other than this deal for him.
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I think teams can definitely be stupid about some things, but if a GM is offering around the player they drafted 7th overall 3 years earlier, I think other GMs know enough to know what is going on. Players like Holtz are GMs least favorite type of player - they have an extremely specialized niche and a lot of teams just don't have room for that sort of guy.
 
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jkrdevil

jkrdevil

UnRegistered User
Apr 24, 2006
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MasterofGrond said:
I'm not going to say "man drafting Holtz was a mistake" yes obviously, we should have drafted somebody else. Bad draft picks happy to everybody, and this one definitely hurts

But I really feel like we played out the string on him, well after we had the opportunity to cut bait and get something other than this deal for him.
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When was this opportunity? I guess after his first AHL year, but this board would have gone nuts trading him not even a year after being drafted. Based on the reports any opportunity sunk midway through 22-23.
 
pkbrux

pkbrux

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Jul 19, 2006
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MasterofGrond said:
But I really feel like we played out the string on him, well after we had the opportunity to cut bait and get something other than this deal for him.
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When though? Devs have made several bigger trades in the last 16 months and those teams preferred other players who were seemingly "lesser" than Holtz. If other teams consistently do not want a young player as a part of a trade for a more established player, it says something about them.

Unless you wanted to trade him within the first calendar year after his draft, I don't know when this time the Devils could have traded him to get more value was...his value tanked really quickly for a top 10 pick.
 

Nico Hischier

Registered User
Nov 22, 2017
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It happened and now it’s time to move forward. Let’s enjoy cotter I think he will be a fan favorite. This is not just some 4th liner. He played a lot in Vegas top 6. Idk why he was scratched in playoffs. Vegas is just very deep I guess.
 
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Lou Bloom

Lou Bloom

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Oct 14, 2020
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I also think people are heavily overrating Holtz's value, go look at Filip Zadina (2018 6th overall pick) and Vitali Kravstov (2018 9th overall pick) as examples of recent top picks that went for nothing of value (Zadina was waived and Kravstov was traded for a nothing player and a 2026th 7th rounder). Getting a cheap player with potential as a bottom 6er and a 3rd round pick is much better than waiting another year and potentially getting nothing of value for Holtz and Schmid.
 
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ninetyeight

ninetyeight

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Jun 3, 2007
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With all that said, I don't think any of these guys are big difference makers to Devils success (or lack of) in the next couple of years. I just don't think these are good trades and I've lost my confidence in Fitz in the last year or so. I used to view him as a cerebral and tactical guy, like when getting Siegenthaler, Marino, Meier etc, but his moves in the last year have been more like "me want big strong man, here assets take". Todays Marino trade was another sell low trade. Sure he got more than he paid for but Marino's value was way more a year ago. Hopefully he gets his UFA and it works out, but I'd rather keep Marino and see if he can get back to his 23 season self.

It's ok to like the guys we already have and it's ok to criticize the moves our GM makes. A lot of you guys always love these trades/drafts/freeagents at first and then in no time you are hating them glamouring for the next thing. Drafting Holtz, Ty Smith etc, trading for Gusev, Subban, Haula etc, signing Palat etc..
 
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Saint Beaurivage

Saint Beaurivage

Jersey Shore
Nov 18, 2017
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pkbrux said:
Given away the farm? Who has he traded away that constitutes "giving away the farm" in this offseason? Kevin Bahl, Alex Holtz, John Marino, Akira Schmid and a 11-32 first round pick? Man, if that was our farm, we were going to be hungry regardless if we gave it away or not.
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Good point but what I mean is some GMs leverage trades better than others. Giving away the farm meaning try to grab a steal here and there, and if you can't, have some patience. Our GM is young and nowhere near proven yet.
 
NJDevs26

NJDevs26

Once upon a time...
Mar 21, 2007
67,971
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We're kind of out of time to 'be patient' imo, especially with the franchise's lack of consistency and the fact this isn't going to be the youngest core in the league for very long. This isn't Shero in his first couple years waiting three years for the perfect deal to spend money on in free agency cause we were rebuilding anyway.
 
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Killing Joke

Killing Joke

Registered User
Dec 2, 2017
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ninetyeight said:
Holtz is already better than this guy in every way except skating and physicality. Both his scoring and advanced stats are better. And you don't think potential and upside matters? There's a reason Holtz went top10 and this guy didn't. And if I'm stuck on potential, you are grass is always greener on the otherside. You love to have scapegoat on the team and love to hate our non-top players. Like all the other teams have elite bottom6s but we just have shit. There's is literally no one outside our board who thinks Devils won this trade or that Cotter is better than Holtz.
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Lol yea. It speaks to the mindset of how stupid Fitz is he's like, this guy we drafted to be a sniper (the reason you dont draft for f***ing need and is an example of why Fitzgerald sucks at drafting), so lets use him as a bottom six player and get mad he isn't developing into an overall player. Trying to shoehorn someone into something they arent.

Also, if this new plug sees any ice time near Jack and it's not because Jack is double shifting with the 4th line, Fitz and Keefe are both f***ing donkeys.
 
Saint Beaurivage

Saint Beaurivage

Jersey Shore
Nov 18, 2017
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We still have a strong nucleus of forward talent. Nobody touched them. Lift your chin up, Summer is not over yet, more moves could be looming on the horizon.
 
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Killing Joke

Killing Joke

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Dec 2, 2017
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NJDevs26 said:
We're kind of out of time to 'be patient' imo, especially with the franchise's lack of consistency and the fact this isn't going to be the youngest core in the league for very long. This isn't Shero in his first couple years waiting three years for the perfect deal to spend money on in free agency cause we were rebuilding anyway.
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Out of the time to be patient, so what we should do is trade two players for a worse player and a future pick. We should trade a top 4 dmen for future picks.

This is my issue with every single f***ing trade today. None of them were made to make us better now. Every trade had some future pick attached to it. I dont care about some 4th liner that scored less than Holtz.
 
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