Confirmed with Link: Schmid and Holtz traded to VGK for Paul Cotter and 2025 3rd rounder

[Killing Joke]

This guy always gives something extra when he should be getting something extra

He has horrible talent evaluation. His moves are also so contradictory to our time line. 2 year goalie solution that kicks it down the line and makes it a problem relatively quickly. Drafts a problematic defenseman that has a lot of warts in his game and needs a lot to go right but still wont be ready to be here for another 2 years at least, and that's if he's NHL ready and doesnt need more work on his game (he will hes not a smart player). Then trading young RD signed for another 2-3 years and only getting back to future draft picks that are ass, and now trading for a 4th liner and trading away a guy that scored more than him, and a young goalie (who is madly inconsistent but showed some promise in a high pressure series in his first playoff experience).

 

[NJDevs26]

Someone mentioned something about Schmid’s agent making comments, anyone know about that? I hadn’t heard about it.

Haven't really found that specifically but googling on Twitter I saw something that suggested he might not have signed his QO because he basically became the #4 goalie here, don't know how true that is but it's not too far out of the realm of possibility either.

Okay I think I found the comments now (the actual article was linked in this piece)...

https://x.com/i/web/status/1767980070281339362

 

[Lou Bloom]

With all that said, I don't think any of these guys are big difference makers to Devils success (or lack of) in the next couple of years. I just don't think these are good trades and I've lost my confidence in Fitz in the last year or so. I used to view him as a cerebral and tactical guy, like when getting Siegenthaler, Marino, Meier etc, but his moves in the last year have been more like "me want big strong man, here assets take". Todays Marino trade was another sell low trade. Sure he got more than he paid for but Marino's value was way more a year ago. Hopefully he gets his UFA and it works out, but I'd rather keep Marino and see if he can get back to his 23 season self.

It's ok to like the guys we already have and it's ok to criticize the moves our GM makes. A lot of you guys always love these trades/drafts/freeagents at first and then in no time you are hating them glamouring for the next thing. Drafting Holtz, Ty Smith etc, trading for Gusev, Subban, Haula etc, signing Palat etc..

You keep using the term “selling low” as if there wasn’t potential for their values to go even lower. What happens if Marino has another questionable year and all of a sudden his value is now negative and you missed out on a chance to sign an improvement in Pesce because you chose to bet on Marino?

What happens if Holtz has another year like this year and his value goes to zero like it did with Zadina in Detroit? Or Schmid struggles in the AHL and becomes nothing more than potential waiver fodder?

Fitz clearly saw that this team was too easy to play against and he’s made it a priority to add defense and toughness while not neglecting speed and I think he’s done a good job so far navigating this offseason.

 

[Killing Joke]

This kid will get looks all over the lineup. He has skill

and yet he couldn't score more than Holtz while averaging about a minute and a half more ice time than him.

 

[ninetyeight]

What happens if Marino has another questionable year and all of a sudden his value is now negative and you missed out on a chance to sign an improvement in Pesce because you chose to bet on Marino?

What happens if Holtz has another year like this year and his value goes to zero

I get it with Marino, it's always a gamble, but that's kinda same with every player. Are we getting Pesce for sure? That still hasn't been confirmed. And aren't we also gambling with him, what if he's worse than Marino. Canes fans have said that he has been declining.

With Holtz, come on, this is no value already. It really doesn't matter if his value drops to 7th round or less if it's already at 4th round level. There's really nothing to win trading him now, but everything to lose if he becomes a 20-30 goal scorer in few years.

 

[Saint Beaurivage]

Who else could Fitz have thrown into the mix for a shot at Jonathan Marchessault? We need a playoff performer, Palat isn't even close.

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

Considering we have holes in top 6, to say this is certainly something

Agree. It also sounds like Fitz has his free agency targets already locked in and Holtz wasn't going to be penciled in top 12 forwards.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

I get it with Marino, it's always a gamble, but that's kinda same with every player. Are we getting Pesce for sure? That still hasn't been confirmed. And aren't we also gambling with him, what if he's worse than Marino. Canes fans have said that he has been declining.

With Holtz, come on, this is no value already. It really doesn't matter if his value drops to 7th round or less if it's already at 4th round level. There's really nothing to win trading him now, but everything to lose if he becomes a 20-30 goal scorer in few years.

He was taking up a roster spot we can’t afford to waste. We’re already wasting one on macDermid and potentially Foote.

I’d be it’s more likely Holtz is out of the league in 2 years than putting up anywhere close to 30 goals.

 

[Nico Hischier]

and yet he couldn't score more than Holtz while averaging about a minute and a half more ice time than him.

Cotter had 3 less points than holtz last season in less games and 200 more hits. He has also scored some beautiful goals. You should watch him before just saying he is a 4th liner. Bastian is a 4th liner.

 

[Team Concept]

Just read through all 17 plus pages of this thread. The way I look a the trade is Cotter for Schmid straight up. We get a 3rd round pick for Holtz as we try to recoup some value from this draft bust. We should count ourselves lucky that we got something for him after trying to unload him to the Sharks and Flames and possibly some other trade offers that we are not aware of.

Cotter fills McLeod's spot, but most likely plays LW next season. As some have mentioned we are probably looking at a Cotter-Lazar-Bastian 4th line. Its just too bad that he doesn't kill penalties or have a plus 50% winning percentage from the dot.

Also, bothers me that he couldn't work his way into even 1 playoff game when the intensity ramps up. Surprise by that.

 

[JK3]

Yeah our sniper to go along with Jack, but they knew what his deficiencies were and tried to turn him into something he wasn't ever going to be. Of course you need more than just the shot with a more rounded game but his development wasn't great. I would have kept him another year with the new staff.

Publicly shitting on him was a real doozy though, "Hey this guy sucks, give up some assets for him." LMAO. Looking back you wonder why the hell they even drafted him in the first place, just piss poor management from the get go.

 

[Triumph]

Out of the time to be patient, so what we should do is trade two players for a worse player and a future pick. We should trade a top 4 dmen for future picks.

This is my issue with every single f***ing trade today. None of them were made to make us better now. Every trade had some future pick attached to it. I dont care about some 4th liner that scored less than Holtz.

Cotter is better than Holtz. Schmid was stuck in the organization.

Guess what the Marino, Siegenthaler, and Backstrom trades have in common? Or the Toffoli trade from Calgary?

 

[ninetyeight]

He was taking up a roster spot we can’t afford to waste. We’re already wasting one on macDermid and potentially Foote.

I’d be it’s more likely Holtz is out of the league in 2 years than putting up anywhere close to 30 goals.

Two guys who should have been gone way before Holtz. Holtz already put up 16 goals with bottom6 minutes, why exactly can't he put 20+ goals in top6 minutes? I think your guys hatred of the player clouds your ability to properly evaluate him (similar what happened with Zacha). He definitely has his flaws (skating, positioning, defending), but he did score very well 5v5 for a 22 year old.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

Remember that time Erik Rasmussen went between his legs?

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Two guys who should have been gone way before Holtz. Holtz already put up 16 goals with bottom6 minutes, why exactly can't he put 20+ goals in top6 minutes? I think your guys hatred of the player clouds your ability to properly evaluate him (similar what happened with Zacha). He definitely has his flaws (skating, positioning, defending), but he did score very well 5v5 for a 22 year old.

Lmao our hatred of the player? Why would I hate the player?

You just named his flaws which are all extremely important aspects of being a good hockey player. I don’t care if he scores at a decent rate if he isn’t a good overall player.

If he’s playing top 6 minutes putting up 20 goals while being a bad skater, weak in battles, and poor defensively and positionally he’s not a good enough player that you’re gonna win with.

 

[ninetyeight]

Lmao our hatred of the player? Why would I hate the player?

You just named his flaws which are all extremely important aspects of being a good hockey player. I don’t care if he scores at a decent rate if he isn’t a good overall player.

If he’s playing top 6 minutes putting up 20 goals while being a bad skater, weak in battles, and poor defensively and positionally he’s not a gsood enough player that you’re gonna win with.

Jesus christ it's sometimes so hard to have a conversation with you. You keep moving the goal post cause you just want to be right. We were only talking about goal scoring, not overall game, you said it's more likely he's out of the league than score close to 30, and I said he can easily score 20+ with top6 minutes. Him having flaws in his overall game had nothing to do with the original argument, you're just trying to backpedal.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Jesus christ it's sometimes so hard to have a conversation with you. You keep moving the goal post cause you just want to be right. We were only talking about goal scoring, not overall game, you said it's more likely he's out of the league than score close to 30, and I said he can easily score 20+ with top6 minutes. Him having flaws in his overall game had nothing to do with the original argument, you're just trying to backpedal.

Lmao I haven’t moved any goalposts and I still don’t think he’ll ever score close to 30.

I also haven’t backpedaled in the slightest bit. I was just running with what you said.

I’m not sure how him having flaws or basically being a bad player doesn’t have anything to do with the original argument.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

He has horrible talent evaluation. His moves are also so contradictory to our time line. 2 year goalie solution that kicks it down the line and makes it a problem relatively quickly. Drafts a problematic defenseman that has a lot of warts in his game and needs a lot to go right but still wont be ready to be here for another 2 years at least, and that's if he's NHL ready and doesnt need more work on his game (he will hes not a smart player). Then trading young RD signed for another 2-3 years and only getting back to future draft picks that are ass, and now trading for a 4th liner and trading away a guy that scored more than him, and a young goalie (who is madly inconsistent but showed some promise in a high pressure series in his first playoff experience).

which player that they would have drafted 10th overall last night will be ready before 2 years? Please list them.

I would also rather have Pesce + Dillon (plus 2 second round picks) than Marino and Bahl. Wouldn't you?

 

[Killing Joke]

which player that they would have drafted 10th overall last night will be ready before 2 years? Please list them.

I would also rather have Pesce + Dillon (plus 2 second round picks) than Marino and Bahl. Wouldn't you?

Did you read the rest of it where I said he would not likely even be ready to play in the NHL when here in 2 years? Which is thanks to his massive flaws in his game? He is bad in transition, he panic passes and is prone to throwing them into traffic ala Siegenthaler. His ability to read the game fast is not that great.

Dickinson and Zeev would be ready next year and are much better all around than he is. Dickinson is likely ready now just for a bottom pairing role. I'd rather Marino be traded for players than future picks when we are trying to compete now. Future picks do not help now.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Did you read the rest of it where I said he would not likely even be ready to play in the NHL when here in 2 years?

Dickinson and Zeev would be ready next year. Dickinson is likely ready now just for a bottom pairing role. I'd rather Marino be traded for players than future picks when we are trying to compete now. Learn what the f*** asset management is and how it's a failure if you're not maximizing and making it fit the cup window and timeline you are on, which tom has failed miserable.

question for you brother-

does the season start tomorrow?

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Dickinson is likely ready now just for a bottom pairing role

I promise you he isn’t and probably won’t be for at least 2 years.

Learn what the f*** asset management is and how it's a failure if you're not maximizing and making it fit the cup window and timeline you are on, which tom has failed miserable.

I’m not sure you understand what asset management is. He got rid of assets that are most likely to keep losing value for assets that can provide value and be used.

 

[Killing Joke]

Cotter is better than Holtz. Schmid was stuck in the organization.

Guess what the Marino, Siegenthaler, and Backstrom trades have in common? Or the Toffoli trade from Calgary?

He isn't.

question for you brother-

does the season start tomorrow?

Question for you, wanna move the goalposts more after I answer?

 

[Camille the Eel]

Holtz being 7th overall 4 years ago has zero relevance to his value today. He has been a bust.

Fitz made a big mistake with that pick because Holtz couldn’t skate as well as he could shoot. And meanwhile even the shot turned out not to be so very earth shaking. He wasn’t beating goalies from 25 feet out who could see his shot. No Bobby Hull here. What he did show was a good instinct for finding the open spots and consistently good soft hands. He will finish open looks.

Fitz’s approach to this draft has been instructive as to what he’s learned about drafting. Silyaev (spelling?) and the Finnish and Swedish players he’s chosen are big guys with outstanding skating skills. He has stopped drafting guys based on their scoring at 18 years old and started taking players who have outstanding athletic qualities and facility as to their speed and edge work.

I give Fitz high grades for admitting a past mistake and moving on. And hope that Holtz does develop in Vegas. Maybe Cassidy can turn his development around. But I’ll be equally unsurprised if he doesn’t make the Knights out of camp.

 

[Killing Joke]

I promise you he isn’t and probably won’t be for at least 2 years.


I’m not sure you understand what asset management is. He got rid of assets that are most likely to keep losing value for assets that can provide value and be used.

Aren't you the one that foolishly thinks every player has to be amazing overall? Until you understand that is not how hockey works talking about how to maximize assets is gonna be lost on you.

 

[Camille the Eel]

Eliminating double post. What’s with this awful website performance?