Confirmed with Link: Schmid and Holtz traded to VGK for Paul Cotter and 2025 3rd rounder

[Goptor]

Which is way easier said than done when you’re guy suddenly has to leave because he’s getting charged with a crime.

Its the type of player you get to replace them. Tatar, Holtz, Sharangovich, and Boqvist all had enough offense to provide some scoring from the 3rd line. The guys he is using to replace them do not have the offensive talent to do that.
McLeod and Wood also had more scoring ability than the guys he's bringing in as well.


We'll see what happens in UFA. I'm willing to bet it will not be the Tarasenkos brought in as depth, but rather guys like Sammy Blais.

 

[Forge]

Florida's 7th, 8th, and 9th highest ATOI forwards were Lundell, Rodrigues, and Tarasenko. Those guys put up 35, 39, and 55 (split between two teams) points.

Edmonton's 7th, 8th, and 9th highest ATOI forwards were Ryan McLeod, Warren Foegele, and Corey Perry. Those guys put up 30, 41, and 22 (split between two teams) points.

NJ's 7th, 8th and 9th highest ATOI forwards this past year were Erik Haula, Ondrej Palat, and Michael McLeod. They put up 35, 31, and 35 (projected)

really not that much of a difference there tbh.....

And in the playoffs, Rodrigues was playing second line and luostarinen was playing third line. I imagine Luostarinen was playing a lot of third line minutes prior to the tank acquisition as well. He had less than 30 points

I mentioned it in the other thread earlier today, but people overestimate what a third line produces. If your third line is three guys doing 30-35 points, you're doing well

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Its the type of player you get to replace them. Tatar, Holtz, Sharangovich, and Boqvist all had enough offense to provide some scoring from the 3rd line. The guys he is using to replace them do not have the offensive talent to do that.
McLeod and Wood also had more scoring ability than the guys he's bringing in as well.


We'll see what happens in UFA. I'm willing to bet it will not be the Tarasenkos brought in as depth, but rather guys like Sammy Blais.

What guys are you talking about? Palat? Haula? Toffoli? (Literally who Sharangovich was traded for). I don’t really agree with the overall assessment of what he’s trying to do. I think he is trying to find better overall players than a couple of those guys.

 

[StevenToddIves]

I look at this as two separate trades.

A 3rd rounder for Schmid, I'm fine with. Markstrom is taking over in net, and Daws has passed Schmid on the depth chart with Malek coming in.

A 4th liner for a recent #7 overall pick is a symptom of a larger problem. Now, I like Paul Cotter -- he's got more puck skill than the average 4th liner and plays an interior, physical game. But it still seems we mismanaged Holtz from the beginning, which hurts.

First off, there's no way NJ should have drafted Holtz over Jarvis or Quinn. He simply wasn't as good in any area except shooting at the same RW position. Then the team fumbled his development, screwed with his confidence, and sold on him while his value was lowest.

This does not mean the trade will not work out next year. A more physical bottom 6 is needed and Cotter fills a need. With improved goaltending and defense (looking at you, Pesce and Dillon) and better health, the Devils could absolutely make some noise in the Eastern Conference.

But the value of Holtz was mismanaged from the get-go, and on a team with one 1st round pick in a 3-year span, New Jersey cannot afford to allow a mistake like this again.

 

[Goptor]

What guys are you talking about? Palat? Haula? Toffoli? (Literally who Sharangovich was traded for). I don’t really agree with the overall assessment of what he’s trying to do. I think he is trying to find better overall players than a couple of those guys.

Toffoli is gone. It wouldn't be fair to add both of those guys to the list, since one replaced the other. Next year there is no replacement.

I also didn't include Zetterlund because he brought in a forward that will be on the team next year as well.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Toffoli is gone. It wouldn't be fair to add both of those guys to the list, since one replaced the other. Next year there is no replacement.

I also didn't include Zetterlund because he brought in a forward that will be on the team next year as well.

Again you’re saying he’s replaced those guys with players who can’t score. Please give me an example. I’ll give you one. Nosek for Boqvist was one that I didn’t like. He got rid of Sharangovich to bring in Toffoli. That was clearly an attempt at more offense.

 

[JimEIV]

I look at this as two separate trades.

A 3rd rounder for Schmid, I'm fine with. Markstrom is taking over in net, and Daws has passed Schmid on the depth chart with Malek coming in.

A 4th liner for a recent #7 overall pick is a symptom of a larger problem. Now, I like Paul Cotter -- he's got more puck skill than the average 4th liner and plays an interior, physical game. But it still seems we mismanaged Holtz from the beginning, which hurts.

First off, there's no way NJ should have drafted Holtz over Jarvis or Quinn. He simply wasn't as good in any area except shooting at the same RW position. Then the team fumbled his development, screwed with his confidence, and sold on him while his value was lowest.

This does not mean the trade will not work out next year. A more physical bottom 6 is needed and Cotter fills a need. With improved goaltending and defense (looking at you, Pesce and Dillon) and better health, the Devils could absolutely make some noise in the Eastern Conference.

But the value of Holtz was mismanaged from the get-go, and on a team with one 1st round pick in a 3-year span, New Jersey cannot afford to allow a mistake like this again.

I agree with your overall assessment but I find it difficult to say Holtz was mismanaged from the get-go.

He just sucked and we made a bad pick...Mercer turned out perfectly and made the most of his opportunity. Holtz didn't.

When we have Mercer as a glowing example from the same draft, coming through the same organization it's hard for me to blame management.

It's more likely Holtz just sucked nothing more.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Yeah I'm more annoyed that Holtz wasn't a good enough hockey player then I am about mismanagement.

 

[Goptor]

Holtz reminds me a lot of Teravainen. Traded with a $4M cap dump for a 2nd and a 3rd.

 

[Lou Bloom]

I look at this as two separate trades.

A 3rd rounder for Schmid, I'm fine with. Markstrom is taking over in net, and Daws has passed Schmid on the depth chart with Malek coming in.

A 4th liner for a recent #7 overall pick is a symptom of a larger problem. Now, I like Paul Cotter -- he's got more puck skill than the average 4th liner and plays an interior, physical game. But it still seems we mismanaged Holtz from the beginning, which hurts.

First off, there's no way NJ should have drafted Holtz over Jarvis or Quinn. He simply wasn't as good in any area except shooting at the same RW position. Then the team fumbled his development, screwed with his confidence, and sold on him while his value was lowest.

This does not mean the trade will not work out next year. A more physical bottom 6 is needed and Cotter fills a need. With improved goaltending and defense (looking at you, Pesce and Dillon) and better health, the Devils could absolutely make some noise in the Eastern Conference.

But the value of Holtz was mismanaged from the get-go, and on a team with one 1st round pick in a 3-year span, New Jersey cannot afford to allow a mistake like this again.

Disagree with term mismanaged, they just made the wrong pick plain and simple and that’s fine it happens, no GM in history has a perfect draft record.

 

[Mgd31]

I agree with your overall assessment but I find it difficult to say Holtz was mismanaged from the get-go.

He just sucked and we made a bad pick...Mercer turned out perfectly and made the most of his opportunity. Holtz didn't.

When we have Mercer as a glowing example from the same draft, coming through the same organization it's hard for me to blame management.

It's more likely Holtz just sucked nothing more.

I agree it was just a bad pick. He’s just not a good player. If he was any good he would rise to the top like Mercer. Has nothing to do with development. It’s not the complicated situation people are making it out to be.

He couldn’t hold onto the puck last year with any type of pressure. It was time to move on.

 

[MadDevil]

"Holtz sucks, trade him!"

"That's all we got for Holtz?! Fire Fitz!"

 

[JimEIV]

I agree it was just a bad pick. He’s just not a good player. If he was any good he would rise to the top like Mercer. Has nothing to do with development. It’s not the complicated situation people are making it out to be.

He couldn’t hold onto the puck last year with any type of pressure. It was time to move on.

I think we probably should have traded him last year before the league saw all 82 games this season.

 

[StevenToddIves]

Disagree with term mismanaged, they just made the wrong pick plain and simple and that’s fine it happens, no GM in history has a perfect draft record.

Respect your opinion as always, but as a draft guy who preferred Jarvis and Quinn to Holtz, I'll stick to my guns. Holtz had the best shot of the three, but was weakest of the three in literally every other respect. I'm not going to "I told ya so" management, but the pick was just not the best to me at the time or in retrospect.

 

[MadDevil]

I do wish both Akira and Holtz well. Although I'm dreading Akira turning into Adin Hill in the next couple years and winning a Cup because that would just be our luck with goalies lol

 

[Bleedred]

I’m highly skeptical Fitz doesn’t tuck Nolan Foote into bed every night and tell him his lineup spot will still be waiting for him once he’s healthy again.

I’m 99.9% sure Foote is penciled in.

Even if he is penciled into the roster, there's no way he's penciled into a top-6 or even 3rd line role.

 

[NJDevs26]

I do wish both Akira and Holtz well. Although I'm dreading Akira turning into Adin Hill in the next couple years and winning a Cup because that would just be our luck with goalies lol

Then Marty and Rogalski need to get offed along with Fitz, unless Markstrom does the same

 

[devilsblood]

I think we probably should have traded him last year before the league saw all 82 games this season.

People are saying we traded him at his lowest value, but I imagine it was worse after last season. At least this year he played every game, and scored 16 goals.

And I thought he looked a lot better as well.

But yeah, much like Fitz, the league is just not that hot on Holtz.

 

[Ripshot 43]

"Holtz sucks, trade him!"

"That's all we got for Holtz?! Fire Fitz!"

Not Like This!!!

 

[Normal Devil]

People are saying we traded him at his lowest value, but I imagine it was worse after last season. At least this year he played every game, and scored 16 goals.

And I thought he looked a lot better as well.

But yeah, much like Fitz, the league is just not that hot on Holtz.

I kind of wanted to see Holtz get a shot in the Keefe offense, but it probably wouldn't have worked out. There must be some other issues involved in why Fitz just didn't seem to like him .. bad work ethic, attitude issues, or something. That Fitz interview where he was so negative towards Holtz was just weird. Kind of tells me there were some issues outside of just take deficiencies. Maybe, maybe not .. either way best of luck to Holtz in Vegas.

 

[Oneiro]

“Hm,” Fitzgerald said with a pause. “What I would say is if (Holtz) changes as a player, then it will change as ice time.

“He has not had a good year. I don’t believe it’s because he’s been on the fourth line. The core values you have as a player – strong on walls, puck play, puck management, are you turning pucks over, can you be better in certain situations. It’s not about goals… It’s the other areas, the game within the game, which I say a lot, it matters. Managing the lines, turnovers. Those areas have to be way better. Not just for him, but for a lot of players.

“Will it change here? He’ll get an opportunity to show that he’s reliable enough to be put out on the ice at certain times. We all know how he can shoot the puck and we all know he has the potential to be a goal scorer. We’re not losing games because we’re not scoring goals. We’re losing games because we don’t manage pucks well enough. Certain individuals have to be better. But with change comes a possible opportunity.”

Harsh, I guess. But more so because he answered quite honestly in detail - in public. Plenty of players get this feedback in practice. I don't think Fitz is a good liar or deflector, he's a straight shooter. But pretty hard to dig out of this. And like others have mentioned, I suspect they didn't like what they saw off the ice.

 

[devilsblood]

I kind of wanted to see Holtz get a shot in the Keefe offense, but it probably wouldn't have worked out. There must be some other issues involved in why Fitz just didn't seem to like him .. bad work ethic, attitude issues, or something. That Fitz interview where he was so negative towards Holtz was just weird. Kind of tells me there were some issues outside of just take deficiencies. Maybe, maybe not .. either way best of luck to Holtz in Vegas.

There was also some level of distraction in terms of people wondering about his usage. Whether that be reporters asking the coach, asking Fitz, asking Holtz, Holtz wondering about usage. Does that spill over to other players? Maybe.

I also would have liked to seen NJ have give him another chance, see if he could take another step fwd, but Fitz wanted to move on, not just from Holtz, but that type of player.

I kind of hope Holtz goes out there and plays well, but much moreso I'm hoping Fitz's vision takes hold here. If we are a good team, Holtz can go off. and I'd OK with that. If we stumble though, and Holtz turns into a player?

 

[Forge]

I do wish both Akira and Holtz well. Although I'm dreading Akira turning into Adin Hill in the next couple years and winning a Cup because that would just be our luck with goalies lol

I have no doubt that Vegas will help pump up Akira a little bit.

 

[JrFischer54]

I am puzzled as to why people hate this trade? We get a bottom line feisty player like Cotter who will compliment one of Bastian/Lazar + a 3rd pick... for a goalie who will never be a starter and a bust like Holtz?
How is this a bad trade?

I don’t get it either when people complained on here this team was beyond soft. I’m not saying cotter is the second coming of Claude but any type of snarl and physical play on this roster is a massive improvement

 

[JrFischer54]

I think we probably should have traded him last year before the league saw all 82 games this season.

Then somehow he establishes himself on that new team and everyone is freaking out we gave up too early on him. It’s a lose lose just cut the losses and move on