Confirmed with Link: Schmid and Holtz traded to VGK for Paul Cotter and 2025 3rd rounder

[Captain3rdLine]

Aren't you the one that foolishly thinks every player has to be amazing overall? Until you understand that is not how hockey works talking about how to maximize assets is gonna be lost on you.

Nope I’ve never once in my life said that. Try again

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

He isn't.


Question for you, wanna move the goalposts more after I answer?

you are stating opinions as facts.

FACT- the season isnt for 3 more months. Maybe we use one of those (now) three 2nd round picks to trade for another roster player? Maybe we sign someone this week?

 

[Killing Joke]

Fitz made a big mistake with that pick because Holtz couldn’t skate as well as he could shoot. And meanwhile even the shot turned out not to be so very earth shaking. He wasn’t beating goalies from 25 feet out who could see his shot. No Bobby Hull here. What he did show was a good instinct for finding the open spots and consistently good soft hands. He will finish open looks.

Fitz’s approach to this draft has been instructive as to what he’s learned about drafting. Silyaev (spelling?) and the Finnish and Swedish players he’s chosen are big guys with outstanding skating skills. He has stopped drafting guys based on their scoring at 18 years old and started taking players who have outstanding athletic qualities and facility as to their speed and edge work.

I give Fitz high grades for admitting a past mistake and moving on. And hope that Holtz does develop in Vegas. Maybe Cassidy can turn his development around. But I’ll be equally unsurprised if he doesn’t make the Knights out of camp.

Silyaev is a moron on the ice.

Yeah our sniper to go along with Jack, but they knew what his deficiencies were and tried to turn him into something he wasn't ever going to be. Of course you need more than just the shot with a more rounded game but his development wasn't great. I would have kept him another year with the new staff.

Publicly shitting on him was a real doozy though, "Hey this guy sucks, give up some assets for him." LMAO. Looking back you wonder why the hell they even drafted him in the first place, just piss poor management from the get go.

Fitz's MO judging by today and yesterday.

 

[ninetyeight]

I would also rather have Pesce + Dillon (plus 2 second round picks) than Marino and Bahl. Wouldn't you?

I read this as "I would rather have players we don't have than players we do". If we do get them I bet you want to get rid of them in few years. When we are not winning some of you just think all new is good and all old is bad.

 

[dgibb10]

I question the trade of Clarke now with Holtz gone, thought he'd be a fit for a top 9 role.

I like cotter tho, especially at 775k for 2 years+RFA control. If we think he's a dakota joshua caliber player, then that's 5 mill of surplus value over the next 2 years+RFA control. I would have liked to gotten a Brayden McNabb or Hague thrown in as well tbh but if the team doesn't believe in holtz the team doesn't believe in holtz

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I read this as "I would rather have players we don't have than players we do". If we do get them I bet you want to get rid of them in few years. When we are not winning some of you just think all new is good and all old is bad.

no I absolutely don't think that at all, and I didn't really want to trade Marino. I think Kevin Bahl sucked and you can go back through my post history to verify that.

Yeah, sure we have to wait to see if we sign those guys. But I don't see how you can argue that Marino/Bahl is better than Pesce/Dillon/two 2nd round picks (when just focusing on the D assets).

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Did you read the rest of it where I said he would not likely even be ready to play in the NHL when here in 2 years? Which is thanks to his massive flaws in his game? He is bad in transition, he panic passes and is prone to throwing them into traffic ala Siegenthaler. His ability to read the game fast is not that great.

Dickinson and Zeev would be ready next year and are much better all around than he is. Dickinson is likely ready now just for a bottom pairing role. I'd rather Marino be traded for players than future picks when we are trying to compete now. Future picks do not help now.

Yes but why are we supposed to care what you think, or think it’s the correct path vs what the GM and his staff are doing? Respectfully of course.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

I read this as "I would rather have players we don't have than players we do". If we do get them I bet you want to get rid of them in few years. When we are not winning some of you just think all new is good and all old is bad.

Well then you didn’t read what he said.

I think you’re right in some cases but when it’s come to these changes they are an overall upgrade on the surface.

We’ll have to see how it plays out and it’s obviously debatable but most people see Pesce as an upgrade and potentially better fit than Marino.
Dillon is clearly better than Bahl to this point.

The one downside is they are more expensive. Not a fan of that part of it but Fitz clearly see’s them as significant upgrades and the 2 2nd round picks gained from this swap are pretty valuable as well.

 

[Devil made me do it]

With all that said, I don't think any of these guys are big difference makers to Devils success (or lack of) in the next couple of years. I just don't think these are good trades and I've lost my confidence in Fitz in the last year or so. I used to view him as a cerebral and tactical guy, like when getting Siegenthaler, Marino, Meier etc, but his moves in the last year have been more like "me want big strong man, here assets take". Todays Marino trade was another sell low trade. Sure he got more than he paid for but Marino's value was way more a year ago. Hopefully he gets his UFA and it works out, but I'd rather keep Marino and see if he can get back to his 23 season self.

It's ok to like the guys we already have and it's ok to criticize the moves our GM makes. A lot of you guys always love these trades/drafts/freeagents at first and then in no time you are hating them glamouring for the next thing. Drafting Holtz, Ty Smith etc, trading for Gusev, Subban, Haula etc, signing Palat etc..

Fitzgerald is now a shrewed salesman like Shero, that much is evident. It's his major weakness as GM. I do like his vision, though. You will never get prime Lou anywhere but if at least we can get someone who follows his philosophy, like Fitz has been doing, that's the right path forward. All this stew will come to a boil and taste good in the end. The ingredients are there and the person serving it (Keefe) will eventually get us the cup.

 

[13BearerOfHope]

Fitzy to blame not for this trade but for drafting Holtz, at what was it - 7th or so. Horrible pick. But I am glad he’s gone, he never seemed to have enough grit and hockey IQ. Not a fast learner like Bratt. I see him in Sweden in a few years

 

[Saint Beaurivage]

Given away the farm? Who has he traded away that constitutes "giving away the farm" in this offseason? Kevin Bahl, Alex Holtz, John Marino, Akira Schmid and a 11-32 first round pick? Man, if that was our farm, we were going to be hungry regardless if we gave it away or not.

Oh sorry, Sharangovich.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Oh sorry, Sharangovich.

Yegor Sharangovich is 26 years old. In what world is he part of the "farm"?

 

[Dylan9z9]

He has horrible talent evaluation. His moves are also so contradictory to our time line. 2 year goalie solution that kicks it down the line and makes it a problem relatively quickly. Drafts a problematic defenseman that has a lot of warts in his game and needs a lot to go right but still wont be ready to be here for another 2 years at least, and that's if he's NHL ready and doesnt need more work on his game (he will hes not a smart player). Then trading young RD signed for another 2-3 years and only getting back to future draft picks that are ass, and now trading for a 4th liner and trading away a guy that scored more than him, and a young goalie (who is madly inconsistent but showed some promise in a high pressure series in his first playoff experience).

I don't know maybe he thinks he will be here another 2 or more years .... Indont see it

 

[Dylan9z9]

you are stating opinions as facts.

FACT- the season isnt for 3 more months. Maybe we use one of those (now) three 2nd round picks to trade for another roster player? Maybe we sign someone this week?

That's hopefully the plan maybe you should let Fitz in on that

 

[Captain3rdLine]

 

[TheUnseenHand]

So he views him as bottom 6. Yeah, in a bottom 6 role, I wouldn't want Holtz either.

But who is the top 6 winger now? I don't think we are finding this player in FA and we sure as hell don't have him in the system. I sure as hell hope they don't think it's that bust Foote....

 

[Goptor]

It feels like 2008 and Lou is back in charge.

We lost Sharangovich, McLeod, Holtz, Tatar, Wood and Boqvist from our 2022 bottom 6 depth and replaced it with Cotter and Lazar. Turning a 3rd scoring line into a grinding line with limited offensive ability.

What made Dallas, Florida, and Edmonton so successful last year? A 3rd line that can put up offense. Only team that got far with limited scoring depth was NYR and they got carried by league best goaltending.



Trying to get draft picks back for these guys also makes me sad because Fitz has consistently used picks like he's channeling Conte. We all know that 3rd round pick is going to be used to draft the next MacDermid.

 

[Forge]

So he views him as bottom 6. Yeah, in a bottom 6 role, I wouldn't want Holtz either.

But who is the top 6 winger now? I don't think we are finding this player in FA and we sure as hell don't have him in the system. I sure as hell hope they don't think it's that bust Foote....

Given the cap space left, I'm assuming that the other top 6 foward is not currently on the roster.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

So he views him as bottom 6. Yeah, in a bottom 6 role, I wouldn't want Holtz either.

But who is the top 6 winger now? I don't think we are finding this player in FA and we sure as hell don't have him in the system. I sure as hell hope they don't think it's that bust Foote....

Now? Holtz was never the top 6 winger. This doesn’t change anything to do with that search. I think there might be a few options in FA

It feels like 2008 and Lou is back in charge.

We lost Sharangovich, McLeod, Holtz, Tatar, Wood and Boqvist from our 2022 bottom 6 depth and replaced it with Cotter and Lazar. Turning a 3rd scoring line into a grinding line with limited offensive ability.

What made Dallas, Florida, and Edmonton so successful last year? A 3rd line that can put up offense. Only team that got far with limited scoring depth was NYR and they got carried by league best goaltending.



Trying to get draft picks back for these guys also makes me sad because Fitz has consistently used picks like he's channeling Conte. We all know that 3rd round pick is going to be used to draft the next MacDermid.

People need to stop bringing up McLeod in these arguments. That’s so far out of his control it’s not funny.

Of the guys he had control over the only departure I really have an issue with is Boqvist but that’s not that significant. Sharangovich was used to get top 6 too for one. Wood was an overpaid 4th liner. Holtz just isn’t good enough.

 

[Goptor]

Now? Holtz was never the top 6 winger. This doesn’t change anything to do with that search. I think there might be a few options in FA


People need to stop bringing up McLeod in these arguments. That’s so far out of his control it’s not funny.

Of the guys he had control over the only departure I really have an issue with is Boqvist but that’s not that significant.

He was on the team in 2022 and not on it now. He also played an important role in the 2023 playoffs. It doesn't matter who controls that. Tatar got old also. Fitz can't control that. Fitz can still control replacing these guys when they are gone.

 

[Bleedred]

So he views him as bottom 6. Yeah, in a bottom 6 role, I wouldn't want Holtz either.

But who is the top 6 winger now? I don't think we are finding this player in FA and we sure as hell don't have him in the system. I sure as hell hope they don't think it's that bust Foote....

I'm highly skeptical the organization even views Nolan Foote as a bottom 6 regular, never mind a top 6 guy.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

He was on the team in 2022 and not on it now. He also played an important role in the 2023 playoffs. It doesn't matter who controls that. Tatar got old also. Fitz can't control that. Fitz can still control replacing these guys when they are gone.

Which is way easier said than done when you’re guy suddenly has to leave because he’s getting charged with a crime.

 

[OmNomNom]

Sitting on it, I get it (esp w RFA contracts)

I just wish we had better value

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

It feels like 2008 and Lou is back in charge.

We lost Sharangovich, McLeod, Holtz, Tatar, Wood and Boqvist from our 2022 bottom 6 depth and replaced it with Cotter and Lazar. Turning a 3rd scoring line into a grinding line with limited offensive ability.

What made Dallas, Florida, and Edmonton so successful last year? A 3rd line that can put up offense. Only team that got far with limited scoring depth was NYR and they got carried by league best goaltending.



Trying to get draft picks back for these guys also makes me sad because Fitz has consistently used picks like he's channeling Conte. We all know that 3rd round pick is going to be used to draft the next MacDermid.

Florida's 7th, 8th, and 9th highest ATOI forwards were Lundell, Rodrigues, and Tarasenko. Those guys put up 35, 39, and 55 (split between two teams) points.

Edmonton's 7th, 8th, and 9th highest ATOI forwards were Ryan McLeod, Warren Foegele, and Corey Perry. Those guys put up 30, 41, and 22 (split between two teams) points.

NJ's 7th, 8th and 9th highest ATOI forwards this past year were Erik Haula, Ondrej Palat, and Michael McLeod. They put up 35, 31, and 35 (projected)

really not that much of a difference there tbh.....

 

[Captain3rdLine]

I'm highly skeptical the organization even views Nolan Foote as a bottom 6 regular, never mind a top 6 guy.

I’m highly skeptical Fitz doesn’t tuck Nolan Foote into bed every night and tell him his lineup spot will still be waiting for him once he’s healthy again.

I’m 99.9% sure Foote is penciled in.