Scared or Excited for Drury's moves?

[jay from jersey]

If no Eichel then why did we give Buch away for free?

I still think Eichel becomes a ranger. I think they still retain Zibby as well. What’s going to piss me off is that we’re going to have to include next years 1st now over this years

 

[nyr2k2]

I think it's ok to say our best trade chip was given away for pennies and to hold Drury accountable for that.

What Gorton did or didn't do is irrelevant at this point. Drury is in charge... he hired (hopefully) the right coach but be honest, that wasn't hard to do. He extended Lindgren... again not a tough move.

But when shit was really on the line he took the 3rd strike without swinging and it could & no doubt will have far reaching ramifications.

You can't galvanize a rebuild in one move but you can certainly ruin it.

Time will tell if this move did.

This is the stuff that frustrates me. The end there--we may have ruined the rebuild with one move--is just utter nonsense and the silliest hyperbole. I understand being wary, fearful that we're taking some new direction, but to suggest the Buchnevich move or even that move plus the Goodrow contract and whatever else anyone wants to whine about, that they somehow have potentially crippled the franchise, is garbage. The franchise still has an absolute wealth of young talent and to this point hasn't signalled any willingness to mortgage it for an instant upgrade. We have a better coach, and that alone puts us on a better course than we were months ago. We've sacrificed one of our better players to make more room for our younger wingers and improved the bottom six in a substantial way. I think this team on paper is a better team than last year's team right now.

I only bring up Gorton because the past few days has seen a chorus of "Gorton would have done this" and "Gorton would have done that" and "Gorton NEVER would have done THAT!" I don't give a shit about Gorton, but suddenly he's the greatest GM we've ever had and everyone is fixated on what they think he would or wouldn't do. I also mention him to remind people that--both pre- and post-"letter"--we made lots of mistakes. Lots of bad signings. Bad extensions. Bad trades. Bad draft picks. Fortunately we did enough right and also got lucky along the way. We weren't some cutting edge genius-shit organization. We used luck and a couple good moves to get us to where we are.

I don't see some seismic shift. I don't see anything that even has THAT significant of an impact on the organization other than the coaching change. At the end of the day I think we're still following the general blueprint we were before, and that if JD and Gorton were here we'd be making similar moves. We needed to trade a wing and we needed to add someone like Goodrow and we've all know this. That the exact specifics don't please everyone doesn't mean we've somehow broken the rebuild.

This "the world is over" garbage is so typical of this board.

 

[LokiDog]

This is the stuff that frustrates me. The end there--we may have ruined the rebuild with one move--is just utter nonsense and the silliest hyperbole. I understand being wary, fearful that we're taking some new direction, but to suggest the Buchnevich move or even that move plus the Goodrow contract and whatever else anyone wants to whine about, that they somehow have potentially crippled the franchise, is garbage. The franchise still has an absolute wealth of young talent and to this point hasn't signalled any willingness to mortgage it for an instant upgrade. We have a better coach, and that alone puts us on a better course than we were months ago. We've sacrificed one of our better players to make more room for our younger wingers and improved the bottom six in a substantial way. I think this team on paper is a better team than last year's team right now.

I only bring up Gorton because the past few days has seen a chorus of "Gorton would have done this" and "Gorton would have done that" and "Gorton NEVER would have done THAT!" I don't give a shit about Gorton, but suddenly he's the greatest GM we've ever had and everyone is fixated on what they think he would or wouldn't do. I also mention him to remind people that--both pre- and post-"letter"--we made lots of mistakes. Lots of bad signings. Bad extensions. Bad trades. Bad draft picks. Fortunately we did enough right and also got lucky along the way. We weren't some cutting edge genius-shit organization. We used luck and a couple good moves to get us to where we are.

I don't see some seismic shift. I don't see anything that even has THAT significant of an impact on the organization other than the coaching change. At the end of the day I think we're still following the general blueprint we were before, and that if JD and Gorton were here we'd be making similar moves. We needed to trade a wing and we needed to add someone like Goodrow and we've all know this. That the exact specifics don't please everyone doesn't mean we've somehow broken the rebuild.

This "the world is over" garbage is so typical of this board.

Amen, every word.

 

[BroadwayStorm]

At least with Gorton we got talented players in the 1st, 2nd and even 3rd rds. I don't think we got a single talented player in this draft so far that you can be excited about. It Glenn Sather type players. We got a ton of Brandon Dubinskys.

 

[aufheben]

All I can say at this point: if this team is focused on getting tougher, I want to see glass-chewing psychopaths on the ice next year. Suspensions every week. Blood all over the ice. Skill players navigating the wreckage.

 

[aufheben]

This is the stuff that frustrates me. The end there--we may have ruined the rebuild with one move--is just utter nonsense and the silliest hyperbole. I understand being wary, fearful that we're taking some new direction, but to suggest the Buchnevich move or even that move plus the Goodrow contract and whatever else anyone wants to whine about, that they somehow have potentially crippled the franchise, is garbage. The franchise still has an absolute wealth of young talent and to this point hasn't signalled any willingness to mortgage it for an instant upgrade. We have a better coach, and that alone puts us on a better course than we were months ago. We've sacrificed one of our better players to make more room for our younger wingers and improved the bottom six in a substantial way. I think this team on paper is a better team than last year's team right now.

I only bring up Gorton because the past few days has seen a chorus of "Gorton would have done this" and "Gorton would have done that" and "Gorton NEVER would have done THAT!" I don't give a shit about Gorton, but suddenly he's the greatest GM we've ever had and everyone is fixated on what they think he would or wouldn't do. I also mention him to remind people that--both pre- and post-"letter"--we made lots of mistakes. Lots of bad signings. Bad extensions. Bad trades. Bad draft picks. Fortunately we did enough right and also got lucky along the way. We weren't some cutting edge genius-shit organization. We used luck and a couple good moves to get us to where we are.

I don't see some seismic shift. I don't see anything that even has THAT significant of an impact on the organization other than the coaching change. At the end of the day I think we're still following the general blueprint we were before, and that if JD and Gorton were here we'd be making similar moves. We needed to trade a wing and we needed to add someone like Goodrow and we've all know this. That the exact specifics don't please everyone doesn't mean we've somehow broken the rebuild.

This "the world is over" garbage is so typical of this board.

Dude if Dolan and Sather are playing roles in this team’s construction, that is a huge reason for concern.

 

[nyr2k2]

Dude if Dolan and Sather are playing roles in this team’s construction, that is a huge reason for concern.

Are they? f*** even when Gorton did something stupid people blamed it on Sather. Which of these moves is Sather's?

 

[aufheben]

Are they? f*** even when Gorton did something stupid people blamed it on Sather. Which of these moves is Sather's?

Dude Tom Wilson broke this franchise.

Ditching JD and Gorton was appalling, and now the team is on a blatant mission to grit. I am concerned.

 

[nyr2k2]

Dude Tom Wilson broke this franchise.

I think it was more the disappearing acts we pulled against the Isles and others late in the year.

 

[aufheben]

How the f*** can you not be concerned when the team’s owner has a temper tantrum and just starts firing people?

 

[LORDE]

I think not being upset about the return for Buch is like getting paid on Fri and spending it all before Monday's lunch.

Maybe I was hyperbolic saying this move could ruin the rebuild.

Maybe it can't. It's a nice start tho.

 

[nyr2k2]

How the f*** can you not be concerned when the team’s owner has a temper tantrum and just starts firing people?

I was concerned. This thread is specifically about our feelings towards Drury's abilities, though, right?

I don't see any evidence that Dolan or Sather are playing puppet master with Drury and I don't believe he'd have signed up to be a puppet, so...that doesn't seem relevant to this specific discussion. IMO, anyway.

 

[Casper The Soy Ghost]

I think it was more the disappearing acts we pulled against the Isles and others late in the year.

I think it's both.

 

[Synergy27]

At least with Gorton we got talented players in the 1st, 2nd and even 3rd rds. I don't think we got a single talented player in this draft so far that you can be excited about. It Glenn Sather type players. We got a ton of Brandon Dubinskys.

You’re just wrong. You don’t know what you’re talking about.

 

[Brother Mouzone]

I'll reserve judgement until I see the team actually playing w/ an NHL caliber coach like we have now..

 

[brakeyawself]

At least with Gorton we got talented players in the 1st, 2nd and even 3rd rds. I don't think we got a single talented player in this draft so far that you can be excited about. It Glenn Sather type players. We got a ton of Brandon Dubinskys.

Othmann is clearly talented. And Korczac actually does have a fair to above average ceiling. It's not so much who we drafted that is the problem, its a question of were they the BPA and should we have drafted like Grubbe with that first 3rd round pick.

I don't hate Othmann at all, I just prefer Lucius, Bolduc, Wallstedt and possibly Lysell, whom were all still available. I think it's unlikely we would ever take Wallstedt even though he probably was the actual BPA at that point. But Lucius and Bolduc, Bolduc going at 17 just after us, I think would have been better uses of the pick at that point.

I would feel a million times better about the Othmann pick though if we had found some way to get either Pinelli or Raty who both fell hard into Round 2. But obviously we didn't have a pick in that round and Drury made no move for one.

Without that also adding a center like that, this feels like a wasted opportunity. And I really have a strong feeling the Othmann pick was made for the long term future when Panarin's contract runs out. I doubt we re-sign him at that point when we likely have to pay Laf, Shesterkin, Fox ,Kakko, Ziban, Chytil etc... In that sense, I don't mind Othmann at all. But I do think Lucius or Bolduc could have helped us out a lot more and if nothing else, I think they have equal or slightly higher ceilings than Othmann, but completely different styles too. I could see a guy like Lucius eventually moving into our top 9, or top 6 depending on what eventually happens with Ziban. And I'd rather try to groom that future center rather than throwing a ton of money or prospects at a top 6 C down the line. Or even this year, in regard to Eichel.

Whereas "grit", "physicality" and "strength" are attributes that can be found in rounds 2-7 or any given year through the FA market. I would like the Vaisanen pick a lot more if we had taken one of those centers. It's harder to find high end ceiling, young centers without overpaying. And if Othmann turns out like Brendan Morrow or something, then wow, great. But the probability of that, versus Lucius or Bolduc turning into top 6 centers, I think is about the same. A lot of people don't like Bolduc, but he was, again, picked 17th, so I would argue he has that ceiling. And Lucius even more so, even though he fell.

 

[Baby Duck Homme]

I guess we got the guys we wanted but that some of them were go go gadget arms level reaches?

 

[brakeyawself]

Dude Tom Wilson broke this franchise.

Ditching JD and Gorton was appalling, and now the team is on a blatant mission to grit. I am concerned.

I am less upset about ditching JD and Gorton than I am about the "blatant mission to grit". I think it might have been time for some new faces to take over.

I understand that things like "grit", "physicality" and "strength" are important aspects in hockey. I just don't think they are as hard to find as higher end skills and therefore are usually not worth as much as those skills. Obviously you would love to find all these things in one package, the grit, strength and high end skill. That's pretty rare and maybe Othmann could eventually provide all that. But Power Forwards are really tough to decipher as prospects and usually take a heck of a long time to mature.

I would be happier taking high end skill or moving our high end skill for similar return, and then adding things like "grit" and "physicality" where and when we can. Which can often be found in rounds 2-7 of a draft or in the FA market. At least more so than higher end skill. And higher end skill should be more valuable than those other aspects because of this. Which, I think it generally is. Unless you are lucky enough to have a player like Brady Tkachuk or Brendan Morrow or dare I say Ovechkin.

 

[SRHRangers]

I'll reserve judgement until I see the team actually playing w/ an NHL caliber coach like we have now..

As much as I want to, one doesn't have anything to do with the other.

If the Rangers win the divison, the fact that Buch was given away still exists.

The misuse of assets would still be there, despite the good performance.

 

[Edge]

Somewhere between cautiously optimistic and a bad feeling.

I think we’ve got the right idea, but I haven’t felt as confident about the execution.

I think we were within the range of where he should be, but we didn’t have that extra sizzle or find a way to squeeze out that extra value.

I think we have a vision, but it still feels very reactionary.

I think we’re still in a stage where the benefit of the doubt is extended a little more shine to some of these moves than if Drury was in his second or third year. I think under normal circumstances more people would be up in arms with the accusations of thinking we’re the smartest guys in the room.

I think the jury is still out, and will be until we see if Gallant and the top tier young talent we have take the next steps. If that happens, I think most other things will quickly go on the back burner.

If they don’t, I feel like emotions will run high pretty quickly.

 

[NikC]

What the frik is wrong with some of you? they parted ways with a sub 20g/50p forward as salary dump for other moves, you're acting like we lost a young Pavel Bure.

We've seen time and time again what players like Prust and Avery can do for a NY hockey team.. They're necessities and we overpay one
by $.5M and your soul is crushed?

Did you enjoy watching this young team get demoralized at the end of last year, seeing our star scorer ragdolled?
Watching the islanders shut us out, blow us out?

Was your head in a bubble the year before when the heart and soul of the franchise, the one and only Jasper Fast was knocked out by
a former defenseman that threw his first NHL hit?

Dolan had a right to be outraged! Its not about Tom Wilson. Players like him never go away. This team has no bite, no identity, no will to win or to impose their will on another opponent.

 

[mike14]

I'm cautiously excited (maybe intrigued is a better word).
While I don't think the Buch trade was good by any stretch I have no issues with anything so far, and I'm very interested to see what he does with Strome and the immediate, as well as longer-term, center need.

In a lot of ways though the fate of this team rests on 2-young wingers and an expensive FA that preceded Drury, so while he needs to build the support cast and continue their development, a lot of what happens is really out of his hands and we'l be prasing the work Gorton did if we actuky manage to get anywhere

 

[NYblades]

I think it was more the disappearing acts we pulled against the Isles and others late in the year.

Combination of the two.

 

[leetch99]

Just please no Eichel. Too much of a gamble.

Plus he is just too soft and not what you need to win 16 games in the short season ....it's that simple . Those 16 games are war and it will be war getting out of our division and winning the first 8 games . A price will have to be paid and I don't think Eichel is that guy .

 

[Edge]

What I don't understand is how these conversations drift into an either/or mindset.

For me, Buch being moved was a high probability. It was something we were going to have to do at some point, for a variety of reasons. My problem is less about moving him and more what we moved him for.

One can recognize the value in someone like Blais but not agree that should be a main component for someone like Buch. At the end of the day, I think we under-achieved on that return and it felt rushed rather than strategic.

I joke with people but the choices aren't cake or death. We can acquire tough players, but still expect more for a guy who scored at a 55 and 72 point pace the past two seasons.