Sather - AV Disconnect

[stan the caddy]

Gaborik looked like **** last year and he looks like **** this year. Injuries might have finally caught up to him.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

No, I'm just a little more patient about things, I guess. If things don't improve in a year or two, I'd agree that this move was a failure. I think this new system is more like what you see out of the best teams in the league and I'd like to build the type of roster that can make it work.

In hindsight, trading Gaborik was probably a mistake but they weren't committing to this offensive system yet. They still had Torts and put the ball in his court. He wanted Gaborik gone so they traded Marian and brought in a few players that fit Torts system. It didn't get us any further in the playoffs and Torts was axed.

Gaborik is a free agent after this year and even though his age/injury history is scary, it would be interesting to see him play in a system that he would theoretically thrive in.

Luckily, in a year or two, the team under Sather will be going in a completely different direction and you can give them another year or two to get it down.

 

[stan the caddy]

Because Sather does things ass-backwards, we will probably end up wasting the prime years of both Nash and Lundqvist while he frantically scrambles to find skilled players for AV's system (and finding such players will be no easy task for Sather).

I'm going to call it the Glen Sather Quasi Rebuild. A rebuild that includes paying two veterans top dollar and being mediocre(not bad enough to draft a star) all while shuffling **** around.

If we don't have the players to play this way why the hell are we trying to play this way?

 

[StepansLabyrinth]

Does the new system include allowing unabated skating to the net?

No. We're obviously not adapting well enough. The AV Vancouver teams defended well.

How does that address lack of effort?

I don't think it's lack of effort as much as a lack of execution. Hopefully the players are still acclimating to the system. At worst, we need smarter players.

So? Largely the same roster advanced to the second round.

That team was never a real threat to win a cup.

Determined play is now equal to paychecks?

Better players cost more. It's incredibly rare to sign a player for that cheap and have them turn out to be more than a third liner..

I do not recall that. What you had were those who lived through the dark years and remember what that was like. And those who skipped those years and decided that loosing in a pretty way is better than winning in an ugly way. Most were fine with the on ice product.

Obviously winning is the end goal. How many top-tier teams do you see winning "ugly"? In this NHL, the best teams win through skill. Torts made us a tough playoff draw but we were never going to be a true contender with him.

I guess Boston is the exception but they also have way more skill than our team ever had.

More than a third of the way into the season and one of the hardest working teams in the NHL is now one of the laziest?

They seem more confused than lazy. Making mistakes is not being lazy.

You mean let Sather do that he has done so well in the past?

Up to and including the Drury, Gomez, and Redden contracts was abhorrent and Sather should have been fired for sure. Since then, there's been evident changes in player management. We've been bringing more young players onto our roster, making the playoffs regularly, etc. The one notable gaff was Richards but there was little alternative for this team and he'll probably be gone after this season anyway. Sather has been at least average when compared to other GMs over the last 4 seasons.

My responses in bold.

 

[pld459666]

I could care less that Scott Arniel thinks or says. He's the go-between from COach to player. His opinion on anything is meaningless. Just shut up and don't piss the players off.

We are JUST 30 games into AV's tenure here. He is STILL very much in the evaluation phase in terms of who he wants to keep and who is out.

The best thing that can happen is that we shed ourselves of the guys that do not fit AV's mold for the style he wants to play.

Ther eis ALWAYS a transition period from HC to HC so the new guy can get HIS type of players in the door.

It's easier to dumb a guy down to playing neanderthal style hockey than it is to have a neanderthal play a skilled game.

The real problem is that I do not trust Sather to make the right choices by himself to bring in those players with more skill.

Additionally, I really don't truck Gorton or Clarke at the draft either so we are pretty ****ed.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

If you expect a GM to build toward an entirely new coach's philosophy in one season, especially when the coach is implementing a wildly new system, you have insane expectations.

So it was another move made in a vacuum with no real thought. Unless you think the idea was to take a team a year removed from the ECF and take steps backwards.

I hoped things would move quicker for sure but it's going to take some time. We had no cap space over the offseason. Sure, Pouliot and Moore have been disappointments but I don't know what people were expecting to get from 1 million/per contracts.

Guys who wouldn't be a healthy scratch?

So many people were clamoring for a change in style of play but some of those same people are willing to just quit now and go back.

People are clamoring for a team that plays hard consistently and wins. How they have to play to do that doesn't really matter much to me.

At least give management one offseason with some money to spend (a.k.a. this offseason if we dump/trade off some unneeded contracts).

Give management one offseason? We've given them 13 offseasons.

 

[Mikos87]

Because Sather does things ass-backwards, we will probably end up wasting the prime years of both Nash and Lundqvist while he frantically scrambles to find skilled players for AV's system (and finding such players will be no easy task for Sather).

The Devils won three cups with three different coaching playing the same way. When the coach wore out his welcome, they got a new guy to come in, sometimes win a cup within a short span by doing what worked for them.

When the message got old to the player, they just got a new messenger to reiterate the same thing. To have this transcendental change of ideologies after the team completes a 7 year rebuild with a window that was opening... well that just proves your point of how ass-backwards Slats' old brain has gotten.

 

[PlamsUnlimited]

AV is not offensive coach...

 

[Ernie]

AV is not offensive coach...

There are no offensive coaches in the NHL, at least not successful ones.

 

[PlamsUnlimited]

There are no offensive coaches in the NHL, at least not successful ones.

Yes. I saw a couple posts saying he was offensive and just..no. Noooo

 

[itsPLkielbasa]

A change needs to happen soon. This team is going downhill. The powerplay has improved but everything else has gone downhill.

Make some trades. It seems as if the chemistry we have always had has disappeared. The injuries this year has killed us as well. Bring up the kids, lets see what they can do and then go on from there. If we continue playing the way we are, we can flip a few guys for picks or better bottom 6 players.

 

[Wolfy*]

AV is not offensive coach...

What??

That's exactly AV's system, offensive and physical hockey...way more than Torts.

That's why AV gives offensive players big minutes, one example is Zuccarello, who was on a leash with Torts.

There's a reason AV said he doesn't have the personell to play his system, too many defensive and soft players, that's why they don't score much.

 

[Pastafazul*]

' we don't have the personnel to get it done.... wow them are some harsh words from a coach, we now know why some of these guys like brassard and even cally's game is lame.... you think this team as it is is going to play for him now? season is over, if they don't make some serious changes and i mean NOW!

 

[PlamsUnlimited]

What??

That's exactly AV's system, offensive and physical hockey...way more than Torts.

That's why AV gives offensive players big minutes, one example is Zuccarello, who was on a leash with Torts.

There's a reason AV said he doesn't have the personell to play his system, too many defensive and soft players, that's why they don't score much.

He is a defensive minded counter-strategy coach. He *wanted* to open things up by playing more talented players, but even now the job's not getting done. By no means is that an "offensive" system.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

What??

That's exactly AV's system, offensive and physical hockey...way more than Torts.

That's why AV gives offensive players big minutes, one example is Zuccarello, who was on a leash with Torts.

There's a reason AV said he doesn't have the personell to play his system, too many defensive and soft players, that's why they don't score much.

Im happy that Zuccarello and Kreider's numbers have improved at the behest of just about every other number when it comes to team success.

 

[Wolfy*]

He is a defensive minded counter-strategy coach. He *wanted* to open things up by playing more talented players, but even now the job's not getting done. By no means is that an "offensive" system.

Well I disagree.

AV is definitely an offensive coach, just look at his work with the Canucks over the years. They are still known for being a tough and offensive team, and when was the last time they were in the finals under AV? Not long ago...

 

[Wolfy*]

Im happy that Zuccarello and Kreider's numbers have improved at the behest of just about every other number when it comes to team success.

Yeah Kreider too, he was also in Torts dog house.

I'm glad Kreider and Zucc are back on the same line, our most offensive one. But Step remains a problem, hopefully he can find his game.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Yeah Kreider too, he was also in Torts dog house.

I'm glad Kreider and Zucc are back on the same line, our most offensive one. But Step remains a problem, hopefully he can find his game.

The best of the worst.

 

[PlamsUnlimited]

Well I disagree.

AV is definitely an offensive coach, just look at his work with the Canucks over the years. They are still known for being a tough and offensive team, and when was the last time they were in the finals under AV? Not long ago...

They were far more talented than this team in a lot of eyes. I believe you're misconstruing the terms offensive and defensive coaching styles.

 

[TrueBlue9]

My fear is that the stereotype of NY being a tough place to win because of all the distractions is coming true. Just look at the only teams to win in the modern era: Rangers had Keenan, Giants Coughlin, Yanks Steinbrenner. Granted he was not the coach but he established a culture. If that culture isn't there from somebody then regardless of the system, players seem to be content making millions and living it up in NYC

 

[PlamsUnlimited]

My fear is that the stereotype of NY being a tough place to win because of all the distractions is coming true. Just look at the only teams to win in the modern era: Rangers had Keenan, Giants Coughlin, Yanks Steinbrenner. Granted he was not the coach but he established a culture. If that culture isn't there from somebody then regardless of the system, players seem to be content making millions and living it up in NYC

I could counter that with Chiacgo... They won again. Same with Boston, another big US city...

 

[True Blue]

That's exactly AV's system, offensive and physical hockey...way more than Torts.

AV's Vancouver teams were fairly soft. And, judging by results, whatever system it is that Torts uses, it is more successful than AV.

That's why AV gives offensive players big minutes, one example is Zuccarello, who was on a leash with Torts.

Torts played the players that deserved to play. Does AV do the same?

There's a reason AV said he doesn't have the personell to play his system, too many defensive and soft players, that's why they don't score much.

He knew what he was taking over. And it is a cop out. What it is showing is that he cannot get the very best out of what he has.

 

[RangerBoy]

Not this BS again. The Vancouver teams weren't soft. How many coaches take over a team and win with the same exact players? When the day comes and the Rangers finally win,a small group of the current players will be on that team. The Rangers aren't a ready made team like Pitt,Chicago and LA where the coach walks in and wins right away. That's not reality of this team. Management needs to dismantle this team and build it back up. Not a tank job.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Not this BS again. The Vancouver teams weren't soft. How many coaches take over a team and win with the same exact players? When the day comes and the Rangers finally win,a small group of the current players will be on that team. The Rangers aren't a ready made team like Pitt,Chicago and LA where the coach walks in and wins right away. That's not reality of this team. Management needs to dismantle this team and build it back up. Not a tank job.

They do. But in order for it to work, Glen Sather cant be the architect, but he will be.

 

[Ail]

Not this BS again. The Vancouver teams weren't soft. How many coaches take over a team and win with the same exact players? When the day comes and the Rangers finally win,a small group of the current players will be on that team. The Rangers aren't a ready made team like Pitt,Chicago and LA where the coach walks in and wins right away. That's not reality of this team. Management needs to dismantle this team and build it back up. Not a tank job.

Are you suggesting that they will win a Cup before the all the players on the current roster retire, walk, or get traded?

That's a bold prediction.