Sather - AV Disconnect

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

AV last night:



Wtf?

Then maybe he shouldn't sign here in the first place, but I got a feeling we're gonna see a major roster renovation...

Why did he sign here? Because there are only 30 jobs and only 3 were available to him.

Why did the GM offer him the job if he kew what kind of style the coach plays and he knows what's on the roster he constructed?

That's why the disconnect is with Sather and Sather.

 

[True Blue]

That's why the disconnect is with Sather and Sather.

Exactly. Jackass still dreams of winning with pond hockey. And a coach like Tortarella, who ruled the locker room, did not suffice. A feel good coach who would utilize the creativity that he (Sather) brought in, was needed.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

We saw warning signs in the pre-season games. But, you know, that don't matter and mean nothing.

Telling people "I told you so" got stale years ago, especially when caught in a vicious cycle of a GM building a team that he annually thinks is better than it actually is.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Exactly. Jackass still dreams of winning with pond hockey. And a coach like Tortarella, who ruled the locker room, did not suffice. A feel good coach who would utilize the creativity that he (Sather) brought in, was needed.

I think you can win with pond hockey — if you have the players who can play that way and have the scoring depth. They don't.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I think you can win with pond hockey — if you have the players who can play that way and have the scoring depth. They don't.

Chicago isn't a particularly "tough" team. I think they are last in the league in fights.

They have better players and double the amount of goals though.

 

[RiceCooker]

Chicago isn't a particularly "tough" team. I think they are last in the league in fights.

They have better players and double the amount of goals though.

Chicago has 7 players with over 20 pts...Kane has 40pts already.
Our leading scorer has 24 pts and no one else has over 20 pts(2 with 20)...sad.
The problem is we keep changing our 3rd and 4th line players(who aren't relied on to score) but the top 2 lines(who are supposed to score) are putrid right now and thus the offence is stagnant again.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Chicago has 7 players with over 20 pts...Kane has 40pts already.
Our leading scorer has 24 pts and no one else has over 20 pts(2 with 20)...sad.
The problem is we keep changing our 3rd and 4th line players(who aren't relied on to score) but the top 2 lines(who are supposed to score) are putrid right now and thus the offence is stagnant again.

Agreed. Its Brian Boyle's fault. He should be picking up the offensive load.

The player evaluation, on this board and by the GM, is just awful. Guys can go through their careers and "not play up to their capability."

Derick Brassard has been an inconsistent mess his entire career. Why was that going to change here?

 

[mulli25]

Give me a break. Its been 32 games. The guy was going to come in and try what hes comfortable with. Hes finally realizing this team stinks.

I'm with you, and i don't think the sky is falling or anything. Its early in the AV era and hopefully we see steady improvement with wise personell moves over the next offseasons

I just hate the way he seems to be passing the buck here. Talent or not he has an expectation to get the most out of his roster.

There is no doubt the roster is flawed. However, you can tell when a team is losing games simply because they're not talented enough. We saw this in 2010-2011. The team worked hard, bought into the coaches philosophy, but didn't have what it takes talent wise to take it to the next level.

The current team, however, doesn't look like that. They look like last years team, a team that had all but completely given up. Inconsistant, hesitant, numb, and at times downright lost.

AV doesn't have the power or responsibility to make personell changes, but there are plenty of things well within his control, his responsibilities, that are playing a large role in the lackluster product we've seen on the ice this season.

 

[True Blue]

They look like last years team, a team that had all but completely given up. Inconsistant, hesitant, numb, and at times downright lost.

The revisionist history is really amazing. Last year's team had completely given up? When did they look lost defensively?

There is no comparison from the effort level of last year's team to this year's piece of dung. THIS team is a throwback to the dark days.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Chicago isn't a particularly "tough" team. I think they are last in the league in fights.

They have better players and double the amount of goals though.

Maybe not traditional drop the gloves "toughness" but the Hawks have players spread through their 4 lines who compete for every inch on the ice, are willing to take/give hits to make a play, and who have a sense of pride and respect when the opposition tries to push them around.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Maybe not traditional drop the gloves "toughness" but the Hawks have players spread through their 4 lines who compete for every inch on the ice, are willing to take/give hits to make a play, and who have a sense of pride and respect when the opposition tries to push them around.

That is the foundation to any great team.

That semblance of a foundation was here. Sather (and, I believe, the players) took it for granted.

 

[Levitate]

Saying he doesn't have the offensive personnel is a copout. The Rangers aren't worldbeaters offensively but they have more than enough offensive talent to at least be around the middle of the pack.

The problem isn't just offensively, it's a massive disinterest in paying attentions to the details, positioning and puck support, and in the defensive zone for the love of god everyone needs to stop watching the puck carrier and instead know which man they need to take. If I see another goal where everyone is watching the puck carrier who then passes it to a wide open guy streaking to the net because no one thought to pick up the guy there then...well I'll be pissed

The Rangers are also terrible at taking care of the puck...they're constantly losing it because they're overskating it, swatting at the puck, reaching for it, etc. Guys fly the zone early while someone is trying to corral a bouncing puck which then gets turned over, etc

They're just playing exceedingly dumb hockey and there's no reason for it...teams with ****tier players than the Rangers play better hockey than this, it's disgusting

 

[Levitate]

The revisionist history is really amazing. Last year's team had completely given up? When did they look lost defensively?

There is no comparison from the effort level of last year's team to this year's piece of dung. THIS team is a throwback to the dark days.

Most of last year they looked ****** defensively and spent the majority of every single game in their own zone because they had no breakout and could never get control of the puck.

Everyone figured out Tortorella's severe collapsing and shot blocking system last year and got point shots through all day long and moved the puck around without being contested

It was terrible last year and the Bruins absolutely destroying the Rangers in the playoffs with point shots was the exclamation mark on how poor their defensive zone plan was last year.

Unfortunately this year it's not any better, probably worse, as the players are stuck between playing a ****** collapsing style but not actually collapsing and defending the net, and a man on man system except they never pressure the guy with the puck at all they just slowly skate at him until they're out of position. Also, getting trapped ont he wrong side of the ice all the time

 

[stan the caddy]

Most of last year they looked ****** defensively and spent the majority of every single game in their own zone because they had no breakout and could never get control of the puck.

Everyone figured out Tortorella's severe collapsing and shot blocking system last year and got point shots through all day long and moved the puck around without being contested

It was terrible last year and the Bruins absolutely destroying the Rangers in the playoffs with point shots was the exclamation mark on how poor their defensive zone plan was last year.

Unfortunately this year it's not any better, probably worse, as the players are stuck between playing a ****** collapsing style but not actually collapsing and defending the net, and a man on man system except they never pressure the guy with the puck at all they just slowly skate at him until they're out of position. Also, getting trapped ont he wrong side of the ice all the time

1. The Rangers were good last year after they traded Gaborik and got the depth they needed. The Rangers finished the season very strong and won a playoff series.

2. Half the NHL uses the collapse. Half the league uses a similar forecheck. For whatever reason, people think he's the only guy in the league that uses those methods.

3. People didn't start spouting off the "John Tortorella doesn't know how to coach" crap until the Rangers ran into a Boston team that swept Pittsburgh.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Personally, I'd much rather play the collapsing style of defense that led to point men getting chances from 60 feet away than the garbage we are seeing now.

 

[True Blue]

Personally, I'd much rather play the collapsing style of defense that led to point men getting chances from 60 feet away than the garbage we are seeing now.

What? Players being allowed to freely skate in, while having sticks waived at them doe s not excite you?

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

What? Players being allowed to freely skate in, while having sticks waived at them doe s not excite you?

Stick checks, missed assignments, general confusion = "watchable hockey"

 

[True Blue]

Stick checks, missed assignments, general confusion = "watchable hockey"

Bring back Lefebvre and Purinton.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Stick checks, missed assignments, general confusion = "watchable hockey"

Don't forget a dash of indifference.

 

[Raspewtin]

To be fair, the majority of this board was saying the same thing.

A normal GM is supposed to be more intelligent and see things for what they are better than a bunch of posters on a website.

But this is Sather, I'd rather randomly pick a HFNYR poster to be the GM than this clown.

 

[StepansLabyrinth]

If you expect a GM to build toward an entirely new coach's philosophy in one season, especially when the coach is implementing a wildly new system, you have insane expectations. I hoped things would move quicker for sure but it's going to take some time. We had no cap space over the offseason. Sure, Pouliot and Moore have been disappointments but I don't know what people were expecting to get from 1 million/per contracts.

So many people were clamoring for a change in style of play but some of those same people are willing to just quit now and go back. It's far too early to call this change a failure. At least give management one offseason with some money to spend (a.k.a. this offseason if we dump/trade off some unneeded contracts).

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

If you expect a GM to build toward an entirely new coach's philosophy in one season, especially when the coach is implementing a wildly new system, you have insane expectations. I hoped things would move quicker for sure but it's going to take some time. We had no cap space over the offseason. Sure, Pouliot and Moore have been disappointments but I don't know what people were expecting to get from 1 million/per contracts.

So many people were clamoring for a change in style of play but some of those same people are willing to just quit now and go back. It's far too early to call this change a failure. At least give management one offseason with some money to spend (a.k.a. this offseason if we dump/trade off some unneeded contracts).

Its not about asking to be patient anymore.

This team is what their record indicates. Even AV has said it. If management was married to this offensive system, why did they trade Gaborik a couple months before they fired Tortorella. Jackass moves. Something tells me whatever facade management presents next, youll go along with it though.

 

[True Blue]

If you expect a GM to build toward an entirely new coach's philosophy in one season, especially when the coach is implementing a wildly new system, you have insane expectations.

Does the new system include allowing unabated skating to the net?

I hoped things would move quicker for sure but it's going to take some time.

How does that address lack of effort?

We had no cap space over the offseason.

So? Largely the same roster advanced to the second round.

Sure, Pouliot and Moore have been disappointments but I don't know what people were expecting to get from 1 million/per contracts.

Determined play is now equal to paychecks?

So many people were clamoring for a change in style of play but some of those same people are willing to just quit now and go back.

I do not recall that. What you had were those who lived through the dark years and remember what that was like. And those who skipped those years and decided that loosing in a pretty way is better than winning in an ugly way. Most were fine with the on ice product.

It's far too early to call this change a failure.

More than a third of the way into the season and one of the hardest working teams in the NHL is now one of the laziest?

At least give management one offseason with some money to spend (a.k.a. this offseason if we dump/trade off some unneeded contracts).

You mean let Sather do that he has done so well in the past?

 

[StepansLabyrinth]

Its not about asking to be patient anymore.

This team is what their record indicates. Even AV has said it. If management was married to this offensive system, why did they trade Gaborik a couple months before they fired Tortorella. Jackass moves. Something tells me whatever facade management presents next, youll go along with it though.

No, I'm just a little more patient about things, I guess. If things don't improve in a year or two, I'd agree that this move was a failure. I think this new system is more like what you see out of the best teams in the league and I'd like to build the type of roster that can make it work.

In hindsight, trading Gaborik was probably a mistake but they weren't committing to this offensive system yet. They still had Torts and put the ball in his court. He wanted Gaborik gone so they traded Marian and brought in a few players that fit Torts system. It didn't get us any further in the playoffs and Torts was axed.

Gaborik is a free agent after this year and even though his age/injury history is scary, it would be interesting to see him play in a system that he would theoretically thrive in.

 

[OverTheCap]

When the legitimately good teams in this league hire a new coach, they rarely have to "take a step back" or "wait a few seasons until they get players to fit the coach's system." Pittsburgh, Chicago, and LA were able to win cups shortly after a coaching change. They had the personnel FIRST, and THEN they were able to find the right coach for the team.

Because Sather does things ass-backwards, we will probably end up wasting the prime years of both Nash and Lundqvist while he frantically scrambles to find skilled players for AV's system (and finding such players will be no easy task for Sather).