Value of: Saros to Edmonton

[Fourier]

Has anyone mentioned Mrazek to Edmonton from Chicago.
Sure he's had injury issues in the past but this year he is playing lights out with an abysmal team in front of him. Happy to do Mrazek for Bouchard with some minor pluses here or there to satisfy all concerned.

That + would be a lot less minor than it seems you might think.

 

[Fishy McScales]

I’d say it’s about equal. Dude.

Dude, how many non-Oiler fans are overrating Bouchard?

Hint: it's the team you dislike, not the player.

Imagine how much hate Dobson would be getting now if the Oilers drafted him instead.

And most people would consider Bouchard an excellent young, offensive D-man on the island.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Dude, how many non-Oiler fans are overrating Bouchard?

Hint: it's the team you dislike, not the player.

Imagine how much hate Dobson would be getting now if the Oilers drafted him instead.

And most people would consider Bouchard an excellent young, offensive D-man on the island.

Lol.
Never go full homer dude.
I don’t think a single reasonable poster would have Bouchard and Dobson at the same level. It’s not the team they play for. It’s the quality of the player.

 

[Double Dion]

Prove that Bouchard is 3 worst D in league. I bet there are 3 worse than Bouchard alone on Flames.

The kid is playing top pairing mins against top lines and holding his own. Last few games he passes the eye test and probably has great defense related advanced stats ..

He doesn't have great advanced stats. They actually show he isn't playing top lines. He's playing the second softest competition on the Oilers blueline and skews heavily to offensive zone starts. Basically he's playing the same type of competition as guys like Tyson Barrie, Brent Burns ect. He's one of the most heavily sheltered guys in the entire league and still gets caved defensively. Zone starts are 65.3%. He gets a large number of shots through, this is and always has been his strength. He also reads offensive plays extremely well. His defense is poor across the board even playing with the Oilers strongest defender. With other defensemen it gets downright atrocious. Like league worst defensively atrocious.

 

[Fishy McScales]

Lol.
Never go full homer dude.

Ouch, a Canucks fan hurt my feelings without making an actual argument again.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

No offense but him playing with Ekholm would actually make me concerned of just how bad his defensive game really is. Ekholm can pretty much make anyone look good, he has been doing it his entire career, which is why I said for years if I had to pick a Dman first it would have been Ekholm and not Josi.

A guy like Ekholm also allows him to play a more offensive game, he won't have that guy to play with in Nashville, and we definitely don't need another Dman that is all offense and no defense.

2ndly all the Bouchard talk doesn't really matter anyways, Trotz has always said he wouldn't trade him for anything but a game changing type player, and he ain't on that level.

No offense taken, what you’ve said is exactly why the Oilers traded for Ekholm and paired him with Bouchard and it’s paid off for them as both players have complimented each other very well. Ekholm’s steady, reliable game has given Bouchard a lot of confidence to play his game more, Ekholm is also a great communicator and really understands the nuances of a strong defensive game so he’s a great player for Bouchard to be working with on a daily basis. He’s still only just turned 24 and has just played 200 NHL games, still lots of room to improve for the kid and Ekholm gives him a pretty good teacher, along with Paul Coffey who was a pretty ok d-man in his day.

As to your second point about Trotz, I tend not to listen to what GM’s say about their plans to the public as it tends to be a bunch of misdirection and half truths.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Ouch, a Canucks fan hurt my feelings without making an actual argument again.

As opposed to your posts without any facts or evidence just homer opinions.
Cool story bro.

 

[Fishy McScales]

As opposed to your posts without any facts or evidence just homer opinions.
Cool story bro.

I said I thought there were significantly more people underrating Bouchard than overrating him.

Remember how that is what we were talking about?

I then also postulated why I believe that to be the case, but nowhere did I claim it to be fact because I would need to parse hundreds of HF posts (and/or other sources) and paste the data here for you as some sort of evidence.

Your stance is that I am wrong, but you are equally unprepared to dig up the contrary evidence for the exact same reason.

I don't hold it against you, but don't pretend like I'm arguing in bad faith here just because you can throw around memes from ten years ago.

Good day to you, my dude.

 

[ottawa]

Juuse if true

Boo

 

[WetcoastOrca]

I said I thought there were significantly more people underrating Bouchard than overrating him.

Remember how that is what we were talking about?

I then also postulated why I believe that to be the case, but nowhere did I claim it to be fact because I would need to parse hundreds of HF posts (and/or other sources) and paste the data here for you as some sort of evidence.

Your stance is that I am wrong, but you are equally unprepared to dig up the contrary evidence for the exact same reason.

I don't hold it against you, but don't pretend like I'm arguing in bad faith here just because you can throw around memes from ten years ago.

Good day to you, my dude.

Yes. You stated an opinion that more people underrated him and I stated an opinion it was about equal. You then went full homer accusing anyone who believed that of being an Oiler hater. So yes you are arguing in bad faith.

 

[Draiskull]

He doesn't have great advanced stats. They actually show he isn't playing top lines. He's playing the second softest competition on the Oilers blueline and skews heavily to offensive zone starts. Basically he's playing the same type of competition as guys like Tyson Barrie, Brent Burns ect. He's one of the most heavily sheltered guys in the entire league and still gets caved defensively. Zone starts are 65.3%. He gets a large number of shots through, this is and always has been his strength. He also reads offensive plays extremely well. His defense is poor across the board even playing with the Oilers strongest defender. With other defensemen it gets downright atrocious. Like league worst defensively atrocious.

Some advanced stats from another thread.
Let's see yours that conclude he is at Barrie's level as a player

He is below average defensively but is far from a bottom 3 Dman in NHL.

 

[Gabe Kupari]

If Nashville trades Saros I think they will be dissatisfied with the return as goalies generally aren’t worth as much as fans think.

It’s unfortunate but it is what it is.

Ppl talking 1st and top prospects are kidding.

Nashville would need to take some cap back. Unless oiler’s have a different salary cap

 

[Armourboy]

As to your second point about Trotz, I tend not to listen to what GM’s say about their plans to the public as it tends to be a bunch of misdirection and half truths.

While I agree with you, as to date we know Trotz has had more than one offer on Saros and hasn't pulled that trigger, so there is some truth to it as of now.

Ultimately though I don't think he really wants a Dman from a deal, he's stated multiple times he can find Dmen and 2nd-4th line forwards, he's not interested in trading assets for them.

 

[Fishy McScales]

Yes. You stated an opinion that more people underrated him and I stated an opinion it was about equal. You then went full homer accusing anyone who believed that of being an Oiler hater. So yes you are arguing in bad faith.

Yes. There are MANY fans who hate the Oilers, many many more than there are Oiler fans.

Add to that many Oiler fans dislike Bouchard, even though more and more are coming around given how well he's played since the coaching change (as has the entire defense).

Where are all these neutral fans defending Bouchard to even out the numbers? (It is a rhetorical question; I don't expect you to actually dig it up.)

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Yes. There are MANY fans who hate the Oilers, many many more than there are Oiler fans.

Add to that many Oiler fans dislike Bouchard, even though more and more are coming around given how well he's played since the coaching change (as has the entire defense).

Where are all these neutral fans defending Bouchard to even out the numbers? (It is a rhetorical question; I don't expect you to actually dig it up.)

And there are many fans like yourself who love the Oilers and are minimizing his defensive deficiencies because you are fans.
Most posters are pointing out both his strengths and weaknesses. Calling posters haters just because they disagree with your opinion is childish.

 

[Fishy McScales]

And there are many fans like yourself who love the Oilers and are minimizing his defensive deficiencies because they are fans.

Did you read my post?

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Did you read my post?

Yes. I disagreed with all of it.

 

[Fishy McScales]

Yes. I disagreed with all of it.

But you didn't read it and ironically made the same argument as me.

 

[belair]

Has anyone mentioned Mrazek to Edmonton from Chicago.
Sure he's had injury issues in the past but this year he is playing lights out with an abysmal team in front of him. Happy to do Mrazek for Bouchard with some minor pluses here or there to satisfy all concerned.

Nah, but I'm sure we'd be down for Seth Jones for Campbell if you guys were willing to eat some salary. No pluses here nor there needed.

 

[Soundgarden]

If Nashville trades Saros I think they will be dissatisfied with the return as goalies generally aren’t worth as much as fans think.

It’s unfortunate but it is what it is.

Ppl talking 1st and top prospects are kidding.

Nashville would need to take some cap back. Unless oiler’s have a different salary cap

Which is why we wouldn't trade him.
But Schneider was traded for a top 10 pick and he wasn't nearly as established as Saros is now.

 

[crazyhawk]

Nah, but I'm sure we'd be down for Seth Jones for Campbell if you guys were willing to eat some salary. No pluses here nor there needed.

Jones has a NTC I believe so probably moot not to mention he is our #1 D presently and though it would be great to get out from that contract I can't see the retention for that long unless the sweetening is well very sweet. So ... if Jones would agree how about Jones plus a second for Bouchard, Campbell and an Edmonton 1st.

 

[TheOrangeDesk]

And some overrate him.

Half this thread is people saying his equivalent to fabbro, who has been healthy scratched this year

 

[SupremeTeam16]

Which is why we wouldn't trade him.
But Schneider was traded for a top 10 pick and he wasn't nearly as established as Saros is now.

And look how that turned out for NJ, I think they made the playoffs once even with Schneider having a few very good years where he was in the Vezina conversation. They didn’t have a good enough team so having an elite goalie was a waste.

The trend in the league is being a good team with quality depth and strong defensive structure that can elevate mid range goalies. Look at the past 6-7 cup winners, with the exception of Vasy in Tampa (who still played behind very deep teams) most of the recent cup winners had average goalies and most of them come and go like the tide. Crawford, Murray, Holtby, Kuemper, Hill. The thinking amongst cup winning teams seems to be to allocate trade capital and cap space to improving your team that can make an average goalie look better instead of on an expensive elite goalie to cover up your shortcomings.

Going this route also allows you to run a tandem system where you limit downside risk of a goalie going cold or getting injured.

 

[McFlyingV]

The Bouchard disrespect in here is wild.

Anyways as for Saros I think he's only made available if Nashville falls off and out of the playoff race and Nashville decides to rebuild.

Edmonton can't include an important roster player in a trade like this because it wouldn't make sense from their perspective. The best they could offer up from a roster perspective would be Skinner, but that won't work money wise.

The only deal I see that makes sense from an Edmonton perspective, and I'm not saying Nashville does it, but it would need to be Campbell + Broberg + 2 1sts, and maybe another piece.

 

[TheOrangeDesk]

He doesn't have great advanced stats. They actually show he isn't playing top lines. He's playing the second softest competition on the Oilers blueline and skews heavily to offensive zone starts. Basically he's playing the same type of competition as guys like Tyson Barrie, Brent Burns ect. He's one of the most heavily sheltered guys in the entire league and still gets caved defensively. Zone starts are 65.3%. He gets a large number of shots through, this is and always has been his strength. He also reads offensive plays extremely well. His defense is poor across the board even playing with the Oilers strongest defender. With other defensemen it gets downright atrocious. Like league worst defensively atrocious.

Uhhh most analytical models have him as a top 3 dman in the league this year.... If you go to puckiq hes playing top pair competition. Now I see why you don't like him, you have no idea what you're talking about