Confirmed with Link: Sandin to Washington for Erik Gustafsson and 1st (BOS)

[dubplatepressure]

What if I told you that Sandin was ready to walk this summer? That it was clear that he had no interest in resigning with the Leafs because he didn't like where he slotted in with our system and our personnel? Now what? What do you do as Dubas, dubplatepressure

I get that may be the reality. Getting a LW back either directly or by using the picks (which we should have received instead of a sheltered OFD who won’t play) is the only play here. Don’t think it would have been hard to grab a middle 6 LW for a D and a pick. That would have “completed” our TDL.

 

[Funk21]

Undersized D men don’t age well, furthermore Sandin expected the Brinks truck to be backed up with less than 100 NHL games. He has started close to 70% of his D starts in OZS since moving to Washington.

Look Sandin is a good NHL D man but our cap situation is not going to sort itself out in 2 years. Liljegren has proven he is the far better defender and has gotten zero PP time. Personally I’d rather hitch my wagon to him. We get a first round pick in a very deep draft. It looks like we could replace him with this years pick. LHD are much easier to come by than RHD.

Ideally if we could have gotten rid of both Holl and Kerfoot and added useful pieces that would have been better but I doubt we get a first back.

 

[Drytoast]

I get that may be the reality. Getting a LW back either directly or by using the picks (which we should have received instead of a sheltered OFD who won’t play) is the only play here. Don’t think it would have been hard to grab a middle 6 LW for a D and a pick. That would have “completed” our TDL.

I think you over estimate what was available versus what we could afford via cap and the value of Sandin at the time.

You are just putting a wishlist out there and somehow expect it to magically get filled. We got something for a kid would was gonna walk. It allows Sandin to move on with his career, us to move on from him and we got something back in return. A defenseman and a late first round pick.

 

[Twine Tickler]

This was unfortunately a trade that I think we lost right out of the gate, and it will only continue to get worse as time wears on. I understand why we decided to move on from him, but I cannot understand why we decided to have Gustafson as part of the return package. We have gone out of our way to ensure Erik gets ice time. Implementing 7D + 11F for over 50% of the games since his arrival. Yet when Rasmus was a Leaf we didn't seem to give a flying f*** about making sure he was given that same time on ice. We clearly had a surplus when Rasmus was a Leaf, and we continue to have that exact same surplus after this deal. Except, Erik will not be a Leaf next season, and Rasmus would have been.

Ultimately we will have to make good on that 1st round selection to make good on this deal. I get the depreciating asset argument, but it doesn't mean you just give that asset away. It kind of feels like we did that TBH.

So hard to cheer against the sandman, and I am genuinely stoked that he's getting an opportunity in WASH, but man this looks like a miss already. One that I believe Sheldon needs to wear equally as well as Kyle. Clearly Rasmus can handle more minutes. Don't make the same mistake with Timmy and stop yanking him out of the lineup every now and again to get Holl minutes. Let Rasmus' departure serve as a lesson to allow these kids to play through their deficiencies. That is ultimately how they improve over time.

I am a fan of Sheldon and Kyle, but this is looking like a big L so far.

 

[hotpaws]

I think you over estimate what was available versus what we could afford via cap and the value of Sandin at the time.

You are just putting a wishlist out there and somehow expect it to magically get filled. We got something for a kid would was gonna walk. It allows Sandin to move on with his career, us to move on from him and we got something back in return. A defenseman and a late first round pick.

Sandin has another year left on his deal and is going to still be an rfa after that so how was he "gonna walk" ?

 

[dubplatepressure]

I think you over estimate what was available versus what we could afford via cap and the value of Sandin at the time.

You are just putting a wishlist out there and somehow expect it to magically get filled. We got something for a kid would was gonna walk. It allows Sandin to move on with his career, us to move on from him and we got something back in return. A defenseman and a late first round pick.

I disagree with the notion it was unrealistic to acquire a middle-6 LW. Oskar Sundquist, Jordan Greenway, Vlad Namistnikov, Teddy Blueger... there were lots of options. Yes i'm aware that we got something for him - yes its better than press-boxing him and then trading him for less in the offseason - no arguments there.

 

[notbias]

I disagree with the notion it was unrealistic to acquire a middle-6 LW. Oskar Sundquist, Jordan Greenway, Vlad Namistnikov, Teddy Blueger... there were lots of options. Yes i'm aware that we got something for him - yes its better than press-boxing him and then trading him for less in the offseason - no arguments there.

I think it is obvious they are leaving a spot open for Knies, and are any of the guys you listed better than Kerfoot/Lafferty? That is who they'd need to beat out for a spot.

 

[Zybalto]

I used to be super high on Sandin but I don't think I wrote much on him since he turned his back on the team at the start of the year.
Hav'nt even read through this thread much but saw he's doing well in Washington so good for him, he got what he wanted. His days were numbered here and now he gets to be a top 4 guy on a non-playoff team for a while.

Liljegren showed he wanted to be a part of the Leafs and Sandin was on team Sandin.

He wasnt going to get played here in the playoffs anyways and if he doesnt fix those turnovers, he not going to get that much trust from any coach in the playoffs.

 

[Menzinger]

Sandin as always had higher offensive potential - even his bigger detractors while he was with the Leafs could probably even admit to that. His skating remains a bigger concern - especially during higher pressure playoff situations. We all watched the Habs exploit it in 2021, and was the reason the Leafs were hesitant to play him in the playoffs in 2022 after he came back from injury.

That said, he can still make the Leafs look foolish for trading him. But a hot streak in March isn't enough yet.

 

[Antropovsky]

I share some of the same frustrations with you and have the similar fears, but I don't really see Sandin's departure the same way.

Sandin wasn't traded for all in. He was traded to backfill future assets in an all in, so I see it as Dubas still having some consideration for the long term health of the team when we might need the 2023 first rounder to be a player.

Sandin wasn't a player right now. On one hand, you could say he can come back and burn the team by having a long career elsewhere, but even if he's a Stralman or Steen somewhere else, he wasn't displacing anyone in head to head competition in Toronto. I also don't like the player type and skillset, so it doesn't feel like when we gave up on a 21 year old 6'3" do everything defenseman like Kenny Jonsson. He's small, skilled, slow, smart and poor defensively. It's not a slam dunk puzzle piece.

Great post!

 

[tmlms13]

I really feel like this trade was "incomplete" in a sense . Needed a follow up move of a defenseman + the Pick for an more impact forward. I don't have a list but there must have been something available. Like, did Dubas really intend to have 9 NHL Defenseman on the roster that needed to get rotated around. I have trouble believing that.

Also i think I've said it a ton of times, I fine with trading him but the timing was bad. By itself this is a trade that should have been done at the draft.... see how things play out with him in the playoffs, then trade him if it's still not working out.

To me a contending team should never trade the better player and at the TDL. Get the draft capital for the future at that point. It makes no difference.

 

[ITM]

I wonder if Dubas’ assessment of Niemela played a significant factor in determining Sandin’s exit.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Trading Sandin seems even weirder now that we're regularly going 11/7. Don't know why we couldn't have used him the way Gustafsson is being used now.

 

[ACC1224]

Trading Sandin seems even weirder now that we're regularly going 11/7. Don't know why we couldn't have used him the way Gustafsson is being used now.

I think it was important to them to recover a first.

 

[Menzinger]

I think it was important to them to recover a first.

I suspect they wished they had sold earlier on Dermott which may have influenced things

 

[Coaches Coroner]

People who had no time with him and criticized him as an undersized Dubas Soo connection pick that is slow and can't defend, suddenly think it's horrible we traded him for a 1st and a roster player. News at 11.

 

[ACC1224]

People who had no time with him and criticized him as an undersized Dubas Soo connection pick that is slow and can't defend, suddenly think it's horrible we traded him for a 1st and a roster player. News at 11.

Who are these 'people'?
We hear about them all the time and their wacky thoughts but no one ever puts a name to them or shows any proof of them actually committing these crimes.

 

[Petrus]

I wonder if Dubas’ assessment of Niemela played a significant factor in determining Sandin’s exit.

Perhaps also the arrival of Timmins influenced the decision. Timmins can likely play the role Sandin played without the weaknesses (real or perceived).

 

[ITM]

Perhaps also the arrival of Timmins influenced the decision. Timmins can likely play the role Sandin played without the weaknesses (real or perceived).

True enough. Pulling for him to put it all together.

 

[Buds17]

Trading Sandin seems even weirder now that we're regularly going 11/7. Don't know why we couldn't have used him the way Gustafsson is being used now.

On the surface, 11-7 would've been good as a way to retain Sandin. Schenn's return is still going to push one (or two) of the seven out of the lineup though.

 

[rocketman588]

True enough. Pulling for him to put it all together.

That's going to be tough when he never plays

 

[RoadWarrior]

Yes, I have zero time for Holl. But you have to also realize that Sandin in for Holl would also require a multi defenseman reorganization, like something like Brodie our, Rielly out, someone like Ekholm in and the Sandin slides into a top 4 puck moving role.

The Leafs rely on Holl not because he’s quality but because he’s a player type he represents vs Sandin who does something else.

It’s like David Kampf and Nick Robertson. They are both “forwards” but do entirely different things.

Sandin is in for Gustaffsson. Problem solved.

I wonder if Dubas’ assessment of Niemela played a significant factor in determining Sandin’s exit.

Sandin > Niemela.

 

[Menzinger]

Who are these 'people'?
We hear about them all the time and their wacky thoughts but no one ever puts a name to them or shows any proof of them actually committing these crimes.

I wouldn't phrase things quite the way you did but in many of the draft/prospect discussions/threads over the past several a common 'criticisms' from some tends to be Dubas and his scouts have drafted smaller players - Sandin included.

I recall the Sandin draft thread for example was hardly overflowing with praise at the time following the pick

 

[ACC1224]

I wouldn't phrase things quite the way you did but in many of the draft/prospect discussions/threads over the past several a common 'criticisms' from some tends to be Dubas and his scouts have drafted smaller players - Sandin included.

I recall the Sandin draft thread for example was hardly overflowing with praise at the time following the pick

And you agree it’s now ‘those people’ who now think this trade is ‘terrible’?

 

[ITM]

Sandin is in for Gustaffsson. Problem solved.


Sandin > Niemela.

That’ll take a while to determine.

I’m not a fan of the move, just looking for some semblance of rationale past the narrative being trotted out.