Rumor: Sam Reinhart extension

[Legion34]

Your takes are laughable

The worst contract in the league is now all of a sudden part of the proof on the tax benefits Florida has

That contract has been laughed at for years here& used as a reason why Florida will never win

Yandle contract was never seen as good, the opposite
Ekblad’s contract sure as heck wasn’t a team friendly deal either

Florida was a laughing stock for years and years and seeing the turnaround here with these comments is just laughable. You can’t have it both ways

Also.

“Florida being laughable for years and years”
Has nothing to do with the tax advantage that they have had available since the back diving contracts were outlawed.

Toronto was a laughing stock for years. That didn’t mean their money wasn’t an advantage.

This is silly. Almost as dumb as when tampa
Fans argued that yzerman was able to just a great negotiator. Now he is signing holl for 3.4.

You have not provided a single peice of tangible evidence.

Check contracts from no tax teams to high tax teams. You will see a clear seperation.

They even admit it.

 

[BB88]

Performance after the fact has nothing to do with the contract as signed.

Price, panarin, kopitar, karlson, doughty all got 14% aav. Different teams. Different markets. Different weather. Different years.
Kane/toews got 15%
Perry got 13.5.
Tavares got 13.85.

No tax teams get 11-12.

Show me a no tax player who got 14%.

You can’t have the worst contract in the league the moment you sign it and then at the same time be used as evidence for tax benefits

Nobody at the time had Bob at the same level as Price, he was too inconsistent and didn’t have good playoff reputation

Also.

“Florida being laughable for years and years”
Has nothing to do with the tax advantage that they have had available since the back diving contracts were outlawed.

Toronto was a laughing stock for years. That didn’t mean their money wasn’t an advantage.

This is silly. Almost as dumb as when tampa
Fans argued that yzerman was able to just a great negotiator. Now he is signing holl for 3.4.

You have not provided a single peice of tangible evidence.

Check contracts from no tax teams to high tax teams. You will see a clear seperation.

They even admit it.

It f….ng hell has something to do with it when people laughed at the contracts Florida were giving everyone

Just cope better

 

[Legion34]

You can’t have the worst contract in the league the moment you sign it and then at the same time be used as evidence for tax benefits

Nobody at the time had Bob at the same level as Price, he was too inconsistent and didn’t have good playoff reputation

Market values are the same.
Look at all the 14% players. They aren’t all the same value. But they got the same hit.

Again. Show me a single no tax player who got 14%.

Why can’t you ?

 

[BB88]

Market values are the same.
Look at all the 14% players. They aren’t all the same value. But they got the same hit.

Again. Show me a single no tax player who got 14%.

Why can’t you ?

What market values are the same?

Bob& Price? Are you kidding me with your garbage even more

There wasn’t a team on this planet that would have given Bob a 12M deal

 

[Legion34]

What market values are the same?

Bob& Price? Are you kidding me with your garbage even more

There wasn’t a team on this planet that would have given Bob a 12M deal

First. A single cherry picked example is a ridiculous way to evaluate a systemic advantage. There are always outliers.

Second. We are talking about aav and cap %

Stars in high tax markets get 14%. (13.5-15%)

This holds true for levels of success. Weather. Markets.
Karlson. Panarin. Tavares. Toews. Kane. Panarin. Price. Perry. Kopitar. Doughty.

Low tax markets get 12 ish (11-13.5)
Bob. Vasy. Hedman. Barkov. Kuch. Heck even seguin and Benn were high but still under the rest

It’s indisputable

Not every player is going to be the exact same. But they will have similar % values.

 

[BB88]

First. A single cherry picked example is a ridiculous way to evaluate a systemic advantage. There are always outliers.

Second. We are talking about aav and cap %

Stars in high tax markets get 14%. (13.5-15%)

This holds true for levels of success. Weather. Markets.
Karlson. Panarin. Tavares. Toews. Kane. Panarin. Price. Perry.

Low tax markets get 12 ish (11-13.5)
Bob. Vasy. Hedman. Barkov. Kuch. Heck even seguin and Benn were high.

It’s indisputable

Not every player is going to be the exact same. But they will have similar % values.

It’s not a singular instance, they had multiple contracts people had no issues laughing at constantly and I mean constantly

Not every player goes for the max and prefer winning.
Barkov set the example and bar in Florida and why they are doing what they are doing. You can put him to Toronto instead of Matthews and he would have never gone for 13+

Pasta makes the most in Boston and carries a 11.25M cap hit
McAvoy 9.5M cap hit

S.Aho makes the most in Carolina and has a 9.75M cap hit
All recent contracts

So again rather than crying non stop go out and spend on a quality management and cope better

& again you can’t be the worst contract in the league the moment you sign it and then at the same time example of Florida cheating with their cap

But wait! Everyone knew Bob took a discount and was on a steal contract.. Get real

 

[Legion34]

It’s not a singular instance, they had multiple contracts people had no issues laughing at constantly and I mean constantly

Not every player goes for the max and prefer winning.
Barkov set the example and bar in Florida and why they are doing what they are doing. You can put him to Toronto instead of Matthews and he would have never gone for 13+

Pasta makes the most in Boston and carries a 11.25M cap hit
McAvoy 9.5M cap hit

S.Aho makes the most in Carolina and has a 9.75M cap hit
All recent contracts

So again rather than crying non stop go out and spend on a quality management and cope better

& again you can’t be the worst contract in the league the moment you sign it and then at the same time example of Florida cheating with their cap

But wait! Everyone knew Bob took a discount and was on a steal contract.. Get real

1.) No body mentioned Toronto.
2.)Carolina and Boston both have lower taxes
Than NY and Cal
3.) Barkov just so happened to take the EXACT same percent as bob.
But he is setting an example? Different situations. Different management. Exact same taxes. Exact same contract %. Crazy.

4.) price. Kopitar. Took the exact same percent. Crazy.

Across the league. Teams with similar high taxes and different markets/weather/competitiveness end up with 14% stars

Teams with low taxes end up with 12%.

The common denominator is taxes.

Assuming random acts of kindness from Barkov/stamkos is the reason that they took less
But kopitar/price took more because why. They are selfish?

It’s silly. The math is clear. You are looking for personal reasons in business transactions. It’s cold hard math

 

[BB88]

1.) No body mentioned Toronto.
2.)Carolina and Boston both have lower taxes
Than NY and Cal
3.) Barkov just so happened to take the EXACT same percent as bob.
But he is setting an example? Different situations. Different management. Exact same taxes. Exact same contract %. Crazy.

4.) price. Kopitar. Took the exact same percent. Crazy.

You really need to learn about hockey more

& again cope better

 

[Legion34]

You really need to learn about hockey more

& again cope better

This isn’t about hockey. It’s about contracts and math. These are business transactions negotiated by agents. Not players. You get that right? They follow the advice of the agent.

To be clear. You know that

Stamkos/barkov/kuch/hedman/point/saros

Are somehow more generous and better leaders than

Kopitar/karlson/toews/price etc.

Why did they take 14%? They are bad leaders? They don’t want to win?

Im confused how all the generous leaders end up in low tax markets??
Very bizzarre

Stevie Y was the best negotiator in the world in Tampa. Now he’s paying 3.4
To holl? Crazy he fell off in Detroit.

 

[BB88]

This isn’t about hockey. It’s about contracts and math. These are business transactions negotiated by agents. Not players. You get that right? They follow the advice of the agent.

To be clear. You know that

Stamkos/barkov/kuch/hedman/point/saros

Are somehow more generous and better leaders than

Kopitar/karlson/toews/price etc.

Why did they take 14%? They are bad leaders? They don’t want to win?

Im confused how all the generous leaders end up in low tax markets??
Very bizzarre

Stevie Y was the best negotiator in the world in Tampa. Now he’s paying 3.4
To holl? Crazy he fell off in Detroit.

& again you’re excuse for Boston being constantly being able to sign players for less than max?

Carolina not having a single 10M player nor will have after this season. I didn’t know they had Florida like taxes… that players just take millions less per year just because of that

Or you thinking goalies carry the same value as skaters and especially franchise, top tier 1C’s


Prime Kucherov& Hedman aren’t signing for 10M or under today.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

Come back, Sam. We were wrong. Bring Jack. Wait, don’t, that guy still sucks.

 

[Legion34]

& again you’re excuse for Boston being constantly being able to sign players for less than max?

Carolina not having a single 10M player nor will have after this season. I didn’t know they had Florida like taxes… that players just take millions less per year just because of that

Or you thinking goalies carry the same value as skaters and especially franchise, top tier 1C’s


Prime Kucherov& Hedman aren’t signing for 10M or under today.

Boston and Carolina have 44% taxes. Not 52-54%. They are closer to Florida taxes
Than Toronto/montreal/Ottawa and similar distance to NY and LA

Of course they aren’t paying the max. They aren’t in the highest tax bracket.

Why would they?
They are paying more than no state tax markets. They are paying less than the Highest. Even then pasta took 13.4% which is still way more than what Kucherov/stamkos/Barkov took. And what Reinhardt will take now.

Again. Crazy how that works

Why do you think Boston despite different GMs and similar market and less popularity gets better deals than NYR?

Are they more popular? Better city. Better weather? Better night life?

Or they now have a fearless leader who tells a bunch of millionaires how much money they can make?

Come on. You think players themselves are doing the math? Aho is telling players to take less? The ghost of Bergeron told pasta to take less?

Is pasta more selfish than reinhart? Or is Marchand a worse leader than Barkov if reinhart takes less then pasta?

It’s just silly.

 

[pb1300]

What market values are the same?

Bob& Price? Are you kidding me with your garbage even more

There wasn’t a team on this planet that would have given Bob a 12M deal

This guy is good at percentages. Don’t fight him. That’s what it’s about

 

[Legion34]

This guy is good at percentages. Don’t fight him. That’s what it’s about

Yes??? It is.

To be clear. Do you think millionaires pay agents 5% of their contracts to negotiate for themselves? Or to have other people on a team tell them what to make?

When negotiating salary. The most important thjng is net income. You get that right?

Contracts are based on percentages/gross/net income.

This is pretty basic stuff.

 

[pb1300]

Yes??? It is.

To be clear. Do you think millionaires pay agents 5% of their contracts to negotiate for themselves? Or to have other people on a team tell them what to make?

When negotiating salary. The most important thjng is net income. You get that right?

Contracts are based on percentages/gross/net income.

This is pretty basic stuff.

The minute Bob signed for 10 per, it was considered a terrible number. Spin it anyway you want with your calculator, taxes, and percentages, it doesn’t change the consensus.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

He's a really good player right now, don't get me wrong - but for whatever reason I just wouldn't be comfortable giving him 7-8 years and superstar money. Can just picture that going south (no pun intended) with enough term remaining to be problematic. Not that I want to see that by any means.

Hopefully for Florida's sake, they get a bit of a discount for the multiple reasons why they are surely the favored spot to stay.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Again. Show me a single no tax player who got 14%.

Why can’t you ?

First. A single cherry picked example is a ridiculous way to evaluate a systemic advantage. There are always outliers.

 

[Legion34]

The minute Bob signed for 10 per, it was considered a terrible number. Spin it anyway you want with your calculator, taxes, and percentages, it doesn’t change the consensus.

Fan consensus has nothing to do with market comparables. There will always be higher and lower ends of ranges. But he was STILL under the 14%

That’s the point

 

[WaitingForThatCab]

“Florida being laughable for years and years”
Has nothing to do with the tax advantage that they have had available since the back diving contracts were outlawed.

It does matter, because even with the tax advantage, the Panthers couldn't get players to sign down here when they were a laughingstock. One reason why Aaron Ekblad is so popular here is that he was actually willing to sign a f***ing contract with the team, unlike Hyman and others.

The only people who were willing to sign with the Panthers during the dark years were guys who didn't have any other options or guys who wanted to retire.

 

[Legion34]

Yes????
Because even though there are outliers
From the mean, you still can’t find a single
Example of a no state tax player getting 14%.

you get that right?
Making conclusions on a single data point is dumb. But showing that the curves are so fsr
Apart they aren’t even over lapping proved the point even more.

They are a range of salaries in no tax markets. They go from

11ish to 13.5. You may think that one contract is an outlier from the mean/value. Ok. That doesn’t mean the whole curve is wrong.

But that outlier still never comes Close to the average of 14% in high tax markets. That shows how massive the difference is.

This is basic stats.

It does matter, because even with the tax advantage, the Panthers couldn't get players to sign down here when they were a laughingstock. One reason why Aaron Ekblad is so popular here is that he was actually willing to sign a f***ing contract with the team, unlike Hyman and others.

The only people who were willing to sign with the Panthers during the dark years were guys who didn't have any other options or guys who wanted to retire.

??? That has nothing to do with a tax advantsge?

 

[WaitingForThatCab]

??? That has nothing to do with a tax advantsge?

It does! If the tax advantage was so incredible, the Panthers wouldn't have had that much trouble getting players to sign deals with competitive dollar figures. As it was, they had to grossly overpay and settle for guys like Yandle who were all about the money and didn't care about the rest.

Obviously, guys want to get paid what they are worth, but there's much more to the equation than shaving a few dollars off the top in state taxes.

 

[Legion34]

It does! If the tax advantage was so incredible, the Panthers wouldn't have had that much trouble getting players to sign deals with competitive dollar figures. As it was, they had to grossly overpay guys like Yandle who were all about the money and didn't care about the rest.

Obviously, guys want to get paid what they are worth, but there's much more to the equation than shaving a few dollars off the top in state taxes.

1.) yes there is much more to the equation than getting top players to shave money off
Florida has done an incredible job of identifying talent and making shrewd moves. There is nothing to suggest that tax advantages got them to move off huberdeau. Claim forsberg on waivers. Identify Bennett etc.
2.) they still never paid the top dollar. You can’t show me any examples of any Florida team signing a player for 14%. You may not like the players they signed. But they didn’t have to pay the average rate ever.

 

[I am not exposed]

??? Bob was a 2 time vezina winner just coming off of the biggest sweep
In modern history.

He signed for 12.27% of the cap at 7 years. Price signed for 14% at 8

the goalie market has changed. But at the time bob took a discount.

Ekblad signed for 10% of the cap as a 1st overall top pair RHD.



The history before the 8 year contract cap is irrelevant. Rich teams could make up the difference with Cheater years.

The tax advantage became pronounced then. Comparing early contracts is silly

Okay now I know why everyone laughs at you.

 

[Legion34]

Okay now I know why everyone laughs at you.

Laugher is the language of inferior minds.

It’s simple.

Everyone thinks every ufa is overpaid. This is silly. The difference is that no tax over paid players get 12.5% aav. Overpayed high tax players get 14.5%

Your subjective view of market value has no bearing on the market. And still no one can show me an outlier contract that makes 14% aav

 

[AvatarAang]

Bob
Yandle
Ekblad

I’m sure you were crying back then..

I’m sure you were a panthers fan back then..

https://x.com/i/web/status/537076335462858753