Rumor: Sam Girard for forward help [ MOD warning # 274 ]

[Rabid Ranger]

That doesn't mean I consider him a #1D.


I dont think there's 30 #1D in the league and I certainly don't think every team in the league has one.

.....but you do consider him a legit top pairing d-man and a top 30 d-man in the league-correct?

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

.....but you do consider him a legit top pairing d-man and a top 30 d-man in the league-correct?

...Obviously. He is one.

 

[Papa Francouz]

The low-end 2C bit seems wildly off the mark. Kadri's scoring moves between regular 2C and low end 1C. It's really only the suspensions that make him unsuitable.

That's fair. Could be he's just a stylistic mismatch for the identity of this Avs team. He doesn't use his linemates well, he doesn't defend all that well, and he's pretty streaky. An ideal 2C for the Avs would be someone who skates better and defends better, even if their offensive output isn't as high.

 

[DatDude44]

Call me crazy

Girard for Tarasenko

 

[returnofthemack29]

Unlike HF posters, NHL front offices don’t use 6 game sample sizes to form an opinion on a player. You’re not wrong that he was bad in that series, however that doesn’t simply wipe away a rather large body of work that is his career to this point. If we’re going to use one playoff series to discredit everything else he’s proven to this point do we consider Mcdavid average? Is Marner awful? The rest of the NHL saw Mark Stone not score a point in his most recent playoff series. Guess he sucks too.

 

[Avsavsavsavsavs]

Girard putting up a good game tonight, lets go trade bait.

 

[stl76]

Ok, why isn't he a Top 30 Dman?

He ranks Top 30 in basically every stat you can find since he really had his breakout season in 2019/20. So why isn't he a Top 30 Dman?

He ranks 14th in CF%, 17th in FF%, 15th in SF%, 13th in xGF%, 8th in SCF%, 28th in HDCF%. He's also 29th in points among Dmen scored since 2019/20, 27th for Even Strength points, 29th for Even Strength Points/60. And he's 16th for TOI/Game at even strength.

He's not sheltered, he plays the most minutes at 5 on 5 of any Avs defender. He's got Top 30 stats in basically every category. And if you dove further into the analytics you'd see articles across the league ranking Dmen for Win Shares or Wins above replacement level and see that Girard ranks well inside the Top 30 and quite frankly inside the Top 20, in every single one of those articles. Not to mention he's the best transitional Dman in the league.

By the stats, not only is he a Top 30 Dman, he's actually more like Top 20. But I get that his size hurts him a little compared to most of his peers around him. But saying he isn't Top 30 is just ridiculous. He absolutely is.

Because he is very obviously not a top 30 dman to anyone who watches him play and isn't an unabashed homer. Top 20? JFC...

Congrats to him for having good offensive stats on one of the top offensive teams in the league over the sample size you cherry picked, I mean chose. You're using largely team based shooting stats to decide who is or isn't a top defenseman. I don't care how many idiot writers put out articles touting his 5v5 possessions stats, that's a really bad way to evaluate dmen. Current publicly available stats generally do a pretty poor job actually measuring defensive impact and need to be understood in the larger context of team play and player usage.

For example, according to naturalstattrick among dmen who have played 100+ mins TOI from 2019-20 thru present, Girard is 18th in 5v5 CF%. Oh wow, super impressive! Girard must be a top 18 dman, right?! Well, actually his teammates MacDonald (1), Byram (4), Timmins (5), Makar (9), and Renouf (14) all rank higher than him. Fellow avs dmen Toews (22), Graves (25), and Connauton (32) also ranked high in 5v5 CF%, what a coincidence. Over the same time period, Girard is 21st in 5v5 xGF%. Oh wow, super impressive! Girard must be a top 21 dman, right?! Well, actually his teammates MacDonald (1), Renouf (2), Makar (9), Toews (10), and Timmins (11) all rank higher than him. So is Jacob MacDonald the top 1 dman in the league, or are you using stats poorly with little understanding of the context surrounding underlying numbers?

Also, Girard does not play the most 5v5 minutes of any avs defender, Makar and healthy Toews play as many or more ES minutes per game than Girard. You know this is easily fact checked, right?

 

[teoberto]

Call me crazy

Girard for Tarasenko

Crazy

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Chambers is much closer to misinformation than information. Only way moving Girard makes sense is for a forward on a similarly great contract.

Tanner Pearson

 

[glenbuis]

Colorado laugh and hangs up.


Wouldn't even trade Girard alone for Gallagher + Dvorak.


Dvorak is proving to be exactly what some of us said he would be before he was traded to Montreal last summer. He's a god awful #2C who struggles to produce anything offensively at 5 on 5 and he's not good defensively.


Want absolutely nothing to do with him and that contract.

let's not get to crazy now . girardi comes with his bag of warts to . there's a reason he's mentioned in every colorado thread now . like for instance you can't say he's been stepping it up in the playoffs .

 

[Linds]

Call me crazy

Girard for Tarasenko

Like senko, but he's only signed for 1 more year and he plays wing. Avs need longer term solution at 2C

 

[glenbuis]

What would the Avs have to add to Girard to get Dach?

byram

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Because he is very obviously not a top 30 dman to anyone who watches him play and isn't an unabashed homer. Top 20? JFC...

Congrats to him for having good offensive stats on one of the top offensive teams in the league over the sample size you cherry picked, I mean chose. You're using largely team based shooting stats to decide who is or isn't a top defenseman. I don't care how many idiot writers put out articles touting his 5v5 possessions stats, that's a really bad way to evaluate dmen. Current publicly available stats generally do a pretty poor job actually measuring defensive impact and need to be understood in the larger context of team play and player usage.

For example, according to naturalstattrick among dmen who have played 100+ mins TOI from 2019-20 thru present, Girard is 18th in 5v5 CF%. Oh wow, super impressive! Girard must be a top 18 dman, right?! Well, actually his teammates MacDonald (1), Byram (4), Timmins (5), Makar (9), and Renouf (14) all rank higher than him. Fellow avs dmen Toews (22), Graves (25), and Connauton (32) also ranked high in 5v5 CF%, what a coincidence. Over the same time period, Girard is 21st in 5v5 xGF%. Oh wow, super impressive! Girard must be a top 21 dman, right?! Well, actually his teammates MacDonald (1), Renouf (2), Makar (9), Toews (10), and Timmins (11) all rank higher than him. So is Jacob MacDonald the top 1 dman in the league, or are you using stats poorly with little understanding of the context surrounding underlying numbers?

Also, Girard does not play the most 5v5 minutes of any avs defender, Makar and healthy Toews play as many or more ES minutes per game than Girard. You know this is easily fact checked, right?

Right, so I'm biased for thinking he's a Top 30 Dman. But all the "idiot" writers and all the statistical models that support Girard being a Top 30 D in the league... Oh that's right discredit them because you think advanced stats are dumb.


Well, if those writers and the mathematical models are idiots... Boy that must make you something truly special


What a clown show you've proven to be. Thanks for the laughs at least. That's usually all idiots are good for anyway.

 

[Gordian Knot]

They should go after J. Toews (40 % retained) and put all in. He doesn't shake loose in cheap though.
Go big or go home.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

Call me crazy

Girard for Tarasenko

Blues should maybe just see what they have with Perunovich first instead of trading for Girard

 

[flamesforcup]

At this stage of his career, a low-end 2C/high-end 3C.

Isnt he ppg this season? And a season removed from having 18 points in 15 playoff games? Didnt know Avs fans have soured on him.

 

[Mac Attack]

Isnt he ppg this season? And a season removed from having 18 points in 15 playoff games? Didnt know Avs fans have soured on him.

I honestly think he is good enough as a 2c. I thinj think people are getting a little restless with him being ufa this year and with there being a black hole after him for centres with any offence people figure we might as well get another 2c now

 

[Hatter of the Beach]

Any interest with Fabbri and Zadina or nowhere close?

 

[PAZ]

Any interest with Fabbri and Zadina or nowhere close?

The title really should be #2C, no interest in a winger if Girard is going the other way.

 

[Moose and Squirrel]

Call me crazy

Girard for Tarasenko

nothankyouverymuch

the last thing STL needs is another small offensive minded dman. heck, ya might find out you already have Girard in Perunovich

 

[pockets]

What would the Avs have to add to Girard to get Dach?

byram

You can't be serious...Byram + Girard for Dach

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

You can't be serious...Byram + Girard for Dach

I think the point was if they wanted to get someone like Dach it would require an overpayment, obviously Byram and Girard would be an overpayment.

 

[Spilot23]

let's not get to crazy now . girardi comes with his bag of warts to . there's a reason he's mentioned in every colorado thread now . like for instance you can't say he's been stepping it up in the playoffs .

The reason why he's mostly mentioned in every Colorado thread is that he's our best trade chip to upgrade our offense which hasn't been quite good so far and all the injuries we've been dealing with. I would like Gallagher but not at the expense of Girard along with his salary I would prefer someone that can carry a line not a complimentary winger Hertl would be a nice target though other than that I don't mind keeping Girard this year to see how Kadri and Newhook end up this season.

Somehow with Dvorak it's probably still very early to say but I always thought this would turn into a "Boedker" trade where he was hyped because he was playing with Arizona then traded to a better team where he didn't pan out.

 

[pockets]

I think the point was if they wanted to get someone like Dach it would require an overpayment, obviously Byram and Girard would be an overpayment.

Yeah I get that it's common practice for HF posters to feel the need to make over exaggerations to prove a point but this one is straight up dumb...

 

[Adele Dazeem]

How about Tierney?