Salary Cap: Salary Cap Summer | The Hunt for 3C | Updated cap info in Post #1

[Paulie Gualtieri]

People seriously believing that Rowney will be third on our center depth chart during next seasons cup run.

 

[Jacob]

Dumo isn't signed.

Yeah and he probably won't be.

 

[ColePens]

I'd be willing to re-sign Hornqvist if he'd be willing to accept a short extension, like 3 years.

Agreed completely

 

[Peat]

I think Duchene might be first on the list or if he is moved to another team or looks like he will go back to Colorado, then JR goes to the next player on his list. I think JR likely has a firm offer already.

Not to say that he wouldn't pull the trigger on another player for a good price, but I think the Duchene saga is what he could be waiting on.

Another factor is Sheary and Dumo. Particularly Sheary and his AAV and term.

I agree in that if we don't have our guy, we will have an NHL caliber center of some sort to start the year. Either Cullen or another UFA or a minor trade for someone.

If you're right, happy days. Guess we'll find out soon enough.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Wonder if Komarov could be had... Not a natural center but took 200 faceoffs last year and can play all three forward positions. 1 year @ 2.95, should be good for 15g 20a. Wonder if a 2nd would get it done

He is not a center. Yes he takes face-offs, because he kills penalties with a fellow winger. Jarome Iginla used to take a ton of face-offs, too. It does not mean he is a center.

Guerin is the GM. Unless you mean for Pittsburgh, but that doesn't make any sense in the context of WBS signings. Not sure what you meant?

No one needs to relax because no one is freaking out. Let's try to move away from the whole "HF is freaking out" canard.

It is perfectly reasonable to look at JR's potential replacement and assess where he may differ from JR and Botterill. Whether they make a great AHL D is only a small part of that discussion. After all, it's July 4, and we've already recycled conversations of all existing potential 3C's.

For the record, I like what I've read about the signings and look forward to camp.

I responded to people talking about how these AHL signings were running against our vision and our philosophy. That is not Guerin's philosophy, it's JR's. It's Sullivan's. I also doubt that the Penguins are signing players to two-way contracts (not AHL contracts) without JR's approval. It was JR who wanted Reaves, not Guerin.

Also, JR's successor? We might as well talk about Crosby and Malkin's successors, because JR is sticking around for the duration of this championship era (hopefully).

Burakovsky has a history of production though that Sheary just doesn't have. Bura had 38 points last year and 35 this year (44pt pace). Sheary has 3/4 of 1 season. We saw the exact same thing play out with Hoffman 2 summers ago when he scored 29g and 47 pts (off the top of my head), in a great breakout season. He wanted a long term deal, Ottawa wasn't interested and it went to arbitration. He received a 1x2m award. Sheary did a little better and add in some inflation... and that's the type of contract he'll likely receive.

Oh I want Sheary on a one-year, prove-it deal. No doubt. I just hope he accepts.

 

[Pick87your71Poison]

We're one defenseman injury away right now from Matt Hunwick playing top four minutes.

If Matt Murray gets injured, we are running Niemi as a #1. This is probably the least of our issues.

If Malkin or Crosby goes down we are running Rowney as our #2 center right now.

Multiple teams are looking to acquire centers in CBJ, Montreal, Rangers, Boston, etc. We also have one of the most depleted prospect pools in the league.

If Guentzel goes down or slumps hard you are running a combination of Scott Wilson and Carl Hagelin as our top six LWers.

I don't really see how people can look at this team and see "overall strength", we're basically one solid player short in every position that we were last year and will have to likely move roster players because we didn't sign a UFA center.

I also don't see how people overlook the fact that we won back to back cups on the basis of having a Cullen or Bonino who could step up and do major lifting in the playoffs. Even if you resign Cullen you are risking having him regress.

Is this serious? Has there ever been a team that you thought was good and prepared for a season? What teams have 2 legit #1 starting goalies, and 6 top 4 dmen, and better winger depth than we do, and elite centers all the way down the lineup. Every team has holes, in the cap era it's impossible not to and we have fewer than just about any team in the league.

If you don't see that on your own, you would think back to back cups, especially this year with all the injuries where depth was a huge part of our success, would be enough for you to see that. Yeah, let's just go trade for Duchene, and Bozak, and Landeskog, and Teravainen, and Vatanen, and Dumba, and Bishop Will our depth be good enough then to be a good team?

 

[Greaves]

Zero reason to keep Hornqvist. We are loaded with young guys on the right side and his next contract will cost 5.5-6 a year. And that's a huge risk to pay for a guy who's play style is notorious for dropping off in early 30s.

We have Phil, Sprong, Rust and ZAR all on the right side going forward. Also Sheary can play the right side with Sid as well.

Staal@5 would be the dream. Should aim there. If it's not available, move on. But I bet snagging Staal would be a hell lot cheaper than Duchene.

Who has the grit Hornqvist does? And who knows what his next contract will be, so 5.5-6 is guessing on your part. All those players you mentioned don't have the grit. Phil is Phil (and I love him for it), Sprong is untested, I love Rusty, the hot shot untested university kid, and while Sheary has a great shot and speed, he doesn't have the edge.

Since when do we think paying 6M to Staal (why would Carolina retain $1M? We giving a 1st or two for that? I sure hope not) is good use of money on the third line when we let Bonino walk for zero for $4.1? Pass on Staal. I don't want 2009 revisited, I want 2016 revisited.

 

[Gurglesons]

Is this serious? Has there ever been a team that you thought was good and prepared for a season? What teams have 2 legit #1 starting goalies, and 6 top 4 dmen, and better winger depth than we do, and elite centers all the way down the lineup. Every team has holes, in the cap era it's impossible not to and we have fewer than just about any team in the league.

If you don't see that on your own, you would think back to back cups, especially this year with all the injuries where depth was a huge part of our success, would be enough for you to see that. Yeah, let's just go trade for Duchene, and Bozak, and Landeskog, and Teravainen, and Vatanen, and Dumba, and Bishop Will our depth be good enough then to be a good team?

That isn't what I'm insinuating at all. I'm responding to someone saying that we have the ability to acquire a 3rd center from a position of strength. Without Kunitz, Bonino, Cullen, Daley, Hainsey, etc. in our line-up we've lost significant depth. Specifically in the center and defense side. We can try to adjust that by trading wingers. If we try to move a Dumo or Maatta for a young cost controlled center which is what Rutherford has said he wants we are doing significant damage to an already weak d-core with a # 1 defenseman who is notorious for being injured.

If you can't see the difference between the roster we currently have and the roster we had last year on July 4th you're seriously over valuing some of our players. They are worlds apart.

 

[Malkinstheman]

I could see Geurin being poached before its even time to find a replacement for JR. As we saw this offseason, teams always try to take personnel from successful teams. Every single one of Chicagos and Detroits Assistant Gms have become GM's and they have lost assistant coaches as well.

 

[Pick87your71Poison]

Dumo isn't signed.

How is that really relevant? This highlights how obviously you are just finding excuses to ***** that aren't legitimate. There is no chance on earth he isn't going to be signed and playing so it's irrelevant whether he has signed yet or not. And if you genuinely believe he may not get signed then you are just living in a dream world that has no basis in reality.

Have you seen the list of players that haven't been signed yet? Draisaitl, Galchenyuk, Granlund, Horvat, Johansen, on and on. Should those teams all go and replace those guys right now? The Preds are in trouble, now Bonino has to be their #1 center.

What a pointless post. If you are going to sit there and rant about stuff, at least make it moderately relevant to the actual situation.

 

[Gurglesons]

How is that really relevant? This highlights how obviously you are just finding excuses to ***** that aren't legitimate. There is no chance on earth he isn't going to be signed and playing so it's irrelevant whether he has signed yet or not. And if you genuinely believe he may not get signed then you are just living in a dream world that has no basis in reality.

Have you seen the list of players that haven't been signed yet? Draisaitl, Galchenyuk, Granlund, Horvat, Johansen, on and on. Should those teams all go and replace those guys right now? The Preds are in trouble, now Bonino has to be their #1 center.

What a pointless post. If you are going to sit there and rant about stuff, at least make it moderately relevant to the actual situation.

People are advocating we trade a player like Maatta to solve our hole at #3 center. That gives us Dumo, Cole, Schultz, Letang and Hunwick. If one of those players gets hurt, you are playing Hunwick in our top four. Its perfectly relevant. Every team but the Capitals has gotten better in our division, I would entertain an argument that the Rangers have basically stayed even with the loss of their back-up and # 1 center. We obviously have more moves to make, but when you see effective players taking one million dollars to be a #4 center in New York, you wonder what exactly is Rutherford doing and why is he banking on being able to trade unneeded assets for a Bonino replacement or waiting on Matt Cullen to make a decision.

 

[Pick87your71Poison]

That isn't what I'm insinuating at all. I'm responding to someone saying that we have the ability to acquire a 3rd center from a position of strength. Without Kunitz, Bonino, Cullen, Daley, Hainsey, etc. in our line-up we've lost significant depth. Specifically in the center and defense side. We can try to adjust that by trading wingers. If we try to move a Dumo or Maatta for a young cost controlled center which is what Rutherford has said he wants we are doing significant damage to an already weak d-core with a # 1 defenseman who is notorious for being injured.

If you can't see the difference between the roster we currently have and the roster we had last year on July 4th you're seriously over valuing some of our players. They are worlds apart.

Again, it's a position of strength because we are not like the Caps and have to find 3, 4, 5 guys to fill spots. We are really just focused on 1, and we do have the luxury to have everything else pretty much set, whether you like it or not. You finding hypothetical scenarios that would make our team worse (like every team in the NHL) doesn't change that fact. No team can survive losing their #1 goalie, or their superstar center, or a top winger, or top dman and not take a hit and no amount of wheeling and dealing is going to change that. Whether you would like us to make 10 more moves or not, we really only NEED to make 1 more and the rest are just looking for opportunistic chances to improve, but without any significant hole. So, therefore, we have the ability not to panic about it and see how things develop and look for a deal we like.

The team is in a situation that it doesn't need to panic. If you choose to do so anyway, then that's up to you.

 

[Gurglesons]

Again, it's a position of strength because we are not like the Caps and have to find 3, 4, 5 guys to fill spots. We are really just focused on 1, and we do have the luxury to have everything else pretty much set, whether you like it or not. You finding hypothetical scenarios that would make our team worse (like every team in the NHL) doesn't change that fact. No team can survive losing their #1 goalie, or their superstar center, or a top winger, or top dman and not take a hit and no amount of wheeling and dealing is going to change that. Whether you would like us to make 10 more moves or not, we really only NEED to make 1 more and the rest are just looking for opportunistic chances to improve, but without any significant hole. So, therefore, we have the ability not to panic about it and see how things develop and look for a deal we like.

The team is in a situation that it doesn't need to panic. If you choose to do so anyway, then that's up to you.

Going into next season with a fourth line of Wilson - Rowney - Reaves is not something I really see as a hole we don't need to fill. Also, I think banking on our defense having Letang and Maatta play major roles with their injury history is especially concerning. If we were cap crunched, I'd see the reason.

 

[Pick87your71Poison]

People are advocating we trade a player like Maatta to solve our hole at #3 center. That gives us Dumo, Cole, Schultz, Letang and Hunwick. If one of those players gets hurt, you are playing Hunwick in our top four. Its perfectly relevant. Every team but the Capitals has gotten better in our division, I would entertain an argument that the Rangers have basically stayed even with the loss of their back-up and # 1 center. We obviously have more moves to make, but when you see effective players taking one million dollars to be a #4 center in New York, you wonder what exactly is Rutherford doing and why is he banking on being able to trade unneeded assets for a Bonino replacement or waiting on Matt Cullen to make a decision.

No I don't wonder that. Sorry I don't feel the need to bring in marginal players that aren't an upgrade and will take time away from the kids and get back into the Pens of 2010-2015 where we kept grabbing vet plugs to stick in the bottom of the lineup like Goc and Winnik all the trash we cycled through. You really sad about missing out on guys like Desharnais and Hemsky and Yakupov?

 

[SEALBound]

The Yak project is dead, he has gone to Avs for 875k

That should be a disastrous pairing.

Yakupov with the Avs will end up being one arbitrarily meaningless season before he goes to the KHL. I honestly think the dude is done in the NHL. And of all places to try to revive your game, Colorado is most certainly NOT the place to do it which tells me - of all the places that would help him...didn't call or said no.

By the way, Rangers signed Desharnais to replace Stepan.

I thought about him at a 1x1. At $1mil, hard to complain about him. If you find a better 3C, bring him in and put DD at 4C. Oh well, we're probably better off.

With Lupul and Horton going on LTIR, the leafs still have space to acquire 1 more big piece. If they signed Markov they could do some serious damage.

I don't think they are a Markov away but if they are able to send someone like Kapanen+ out for a good solid dman coming back, I agree.

Wonder if Komarov could be had... Not a natural center but took 200 faceoffs last year and can play all three forward positions. 1 year @ 2.95, should be good for 15g 20a. Wonder if a 2nd would get it done

They love him for the same reasons we would. This is like another team clamoring over Hornqvist. We're not giving him up...

https://latenighthockey.wordpress.com/2017/07/04/trading-for-the-right-3c/

Faksa, Spooner or Hertl are my picks

Faksa, yes depending on the price. Spooner, no not enough defense. Hertl, absolutely but I HIGHLY doubt Sharks trade him. He's what they need.

Zero reason to keep Hornqvist. We are loaded with young guys on the right side and his next contract will cost 5.5-6 a year. And that's a huge risk to pay for a guy who's play style is notorious for dropping off in early 30s.

Disagree. I think you are underestimating the value a guy like Horny has in the playoffs. We don't have a replacement in those young guys.

Florida just protected Bjugstad over their version of Sheary in the expansion draft. There's been zero rumours about him getting shopped. It seems super unlikely that he's available to me. People point at Florida needing to chop salary but Smith and Demers gets that done all by themselves.

Yup, I don't see them putting him on the market. And if they did, I don't see what they would want from us that we could afford to give up. They are a puzzling team to be honest. You look at their roster moves lately and I have no clue what they they are doing. Seems like they are either ripe for the picking...or 100% not.

Couple guys that I hope we are looking at:

Top tier:

Galchenyuk
S. Bennett
Bozak
T. Johnson

Botton tier:

Sheahan
Girgenson
Faksa

Top tier requires assets going the other way, the bottom tier could be had for spare parts and/or picks.

 

[Gurglesons]

No I don't wonder that. Sorry I don't feel the need to bring in marginal players that aren't an upgrade and will take time away from the kids and get back into the Pens of 2010-2015 where we kept grabbing vet plugs to stick in the bottom of the lineup like Goc and Winnik all the trash we cycled through. You really sad about missing out on guys like Desharnais and Hemsky and Yakupov?

I'd much rather have Desharnais on a one year contract as our #4 center over Rowney. Yes.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

I could see Geurin being poached before its even time to find a replacement for JR. As we saw this offseason, teams always try to take personnel from successful teams. Every single one of Chicagos and Detroits Assistant Gms have become GM's and they have lost assistant coaches as well.

Yeah... and JR is younger than I thought. He's 68 and Lamoriello is still going at 74, and he has a couple of other guys near his age. If he's healthy and wants to be doing it he could easily outlast Guerin being poached.

It turns out JR just looks really ancient.

Sorry, JR. I'll adjust my old man jokes accordingly.

 

[Pick87your71Poison]

Yeah... and JR is younger than I thought. He's 68 and Lamoriello is still going at 74, and he has a couple of other guys near his age. If he's healthy and wants to be doing it he could easily outlast Guerin being poached.

It turns out JR just looks really ancient.

Sorry, JR. I'll adjust my old man jokes accordingly.

Yeah, he definitely has at least a mid-70s feel.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Yeah, he definitely has at least a mid-70s feel.

I thought he was in his mid-seventies when he signed here. No joke, a few times I've thought how mildly impressive it was that he was still going at almost 80.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

Absolutely it does. It shows that his production over the last two seasons was fairly consistent, and thus it's a pretty safe bet that his production going forward if given the same role and opportunity should be in the same realm - if not better.

Sure Sheary had a 70pt pace season - but he only scored 53 points. The year before in 44 games he had 10 points. What happens if all we saw was Sheary having a great run? He wasn't particularly productive or even all that effective in the playoffs - this year or last year. I'm not saying he's a 1 hit wonder (mainly because I don't think he is), but Burakovsky absolutely has a better history to earn a better contract then Sheary.

We've had our share of guys who had that one great season. Colby Armstrong and Mango Salsa come to mind. We have to be very careful, especially with a guy who just got healthy scratched in the playoffs. Need a bigger sample size.

Yeah... and JR is younger than I thought. He's 68 and Lamoriello is still going at 74, and he has a couple of other guys near his age. If he's healthy and wants to be doing it he could easily outlast Guerin being poached.

It turns out JR just looks really ancient.

Sorry, JR. I'll adjust my old man jokes accordingly.

He's like one of those mill/factory workers who drinks anything he can find, smokes like a chimney, burns the candle at both ends, and looks like death... but lives to be 105.

 

[Tender Rip]

If you can't see the difference between the roster we currently have and the roster we had last year on July 4th you're seriously over valuing some of our players. They are worlds apart.

I agree with you on Maatta. Most all the trade suggestions I see with him in it would be very iffy trades for us risk wise, and beyond that they usually reek of poor understanding of Maatta's value and importance for our D, IMO.

That said, I have to say that I think your premise in the above quoted is all wrong.

You cannot compare a team that has beefed up some at the deadline and profited from a full season of player development to an as of yet incomplete team in the early days of free agency. You need to compare to the similar time last season to get a realistic view of where we stand.

On D, Daley has been replaced by Hunwick. Marginal loss maybe, but also at a million less. That's the only change here.
Beyond that we have now gotten a definite number 7 in Ruhwedel, whereas last season that was thought/hoped to be Pouliot (now 8-9 with Corrado). Futhermore Schultz is not a question mark, but instead a top4 D-man and PP QB, and the majority of this group just won a cup more - this time without Letang. I'll say it is ranked higher now than it was at the same time last year.

In goal obviously MAF to Niemi is a downgrade. It was always going to happen though, and in the mean time Murray has gone from rookie sensation to established Nr.1 starter, and Jarry is at the point where he can be a realistic candidate for backup. Our situation in goal remains enviable, and now at the most cap-efficient hit among contenders league wide. We're good.

Wingers. Kunitz is gone and most of us wanted him and his cap+hit gone. Thanks for the efforts, memories and CUPS. Reaves has been added, but it you look at last July, we also have a STAR in Guentzel and quality 4th line option in Archibald that are new. Saying nothing for our WBS wingers probably looking better than ever.

C... Yes, that is the only hole. And it will remain so until a deal is made for one. This is also why we still have cap-room unlike most other seasons at this point.
For now Rowney is new compared to last seasons roster and at least proved useful depth, and we are still waiting to see whether Cullen could take another year. Rest assured that there will be a 3C added, and if that player is not looking the part, most likely it will be addressed during the season or at the deadline.

If you think we have issues/problems..... think of everyone else.

 

[Penske]

I'd much rather have Desharnais on a one year contract as our #4 center over Rowney. Yes.

That isn't the only option though. We are a long way from the start of the season.

 

[cygnus47]

Disagree. I think you are underestimating the value a guy like Horny has in the playoffs. We don't have a replacement in those young guys.

We shouldn't be the ones to pay for Horny's next contract though. He will be 31, he plays a high impact style and doesn't have the footspeed or hands to continue to be successful when his body declines. It will be his last shot at a big payday. Do we want to lose him for nothing to a team that can afford him or should we turn him into assets and give Kessel, Sheary, Rust, Sprong etc more ice time?

There is more than one way to build a team, you don't have to replicate every player from a champion to win.

 

[SCPens]

For some reason I mistakenly thought Haula signed an extension with Minnesota and then got exposed & taken by Vegas, but it was the reverse. Even still, Vegas has little invested in the guy (i.e. didn't draft & develop him) and I'm sure they'd move him for the right return.

Bjugstad is my first choice, both because of what kind of player he is but also because he could be had for relatively cheap, I feel. Maybe not for a 7th round pick, but considering his cap hit and down year I think he could be landed for something like Wilson & a prospect or higher pick.

Do not want Faksa. Not crazy about his offensive game or upside. I feel like he's too Sutter-ish.

I'd much rather have Desharnais on a one year contract as our #4 center over Rowney. Yes.

Hmmmm well that makes one of us! Desharnais is useless. Give Rowney a chance to get his feet under him with some less important regular season games. The guy was thrust into the lineup late in the season and ended up doing a fine job with the minutes he received in an extremely high paced and pressured playoff run. The sky isn't falling, give Rutherford time and he will right what's wrong with this roster.

 

[jmelm]

Maybe Tiffels will surprise and earn the spot in camp