Salary Cap: Salary Cap Summer | The Hunt for 3C | Updated cap info in Post #1

[Randy Butternubs]

Maybe Tiffels will surprise and earn the spot in camp

Or Teddy Bloogs.

 

[SEALBound]

We shouldn't be the ones to pay for Horny's next contract though. He will be 31, he plays a high impact style and doesn't have the footspeed or hands to continue to be successful when his body declines. It will be his last shot at a big payday. Do we want to lose him for nothing to a team that can afford him or should we turn him into assets and give Kessel, Sheary, Rust, Sprong etc more ice time?

There is more than one way to build a team, you don't have to replicate every player from a champion to win.

Simple. Term and price per year. Make it manageable.

4-5 years? $4mil per.

2-3 years? $5mil per.

 

[Gurglesons]

Hmmmm well that makes one of us! Desharnais is useless. Give Rowney a chance to get his feet under him with some less important regular season games. The guy was thrust into the lineup late in the season and ended up doing a fine job with the minutes he received in an extremely high paced and pressured playoff run. The sky isn't falling, give Rutherford time and he will right what's wrong with this roster.

Desharnais put up one more point in four less games playing with far worse players than Rowney in the playoffs. I also trust him as a 3C when Crosby or malkin have their eventual injury in season.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

That isn't what I'm insinuating at all. I'm responding to someone saying that we have the ability to acquire a 3rd center from a position of strength. Without Kunitz, Bonino, Cullen, Daley, Hainsey, etc. in our line-up we've lost significant depth. Specifically in the center and defense side. We can try to adjust that by trading wingers. If we try to move a Dumo or Maatta for a young cost controlled center which is what Rutherford has said he wants we are doing significant damage to an already weak d-core with a # 1 defenseman who is notorious for being injured.

If you can't see the difference between the roster we currently have and the roster we had last year on July 4th you're seriously over valuing some of our players. They are worlds apart.

You say we lost depth and I really don't see that. Our winger depth is stronger than ever with Kuhnhackl not even projected a spot at this point and he started the past 2 years. The defense depth is exactly what we had last July 4th with the only difference is Hunwick for Daley which is a wash. In goal you have Murray with a year more experience and still have a Stanley Cup winning backup but for more than $5 million cheaper. So besides for the center position at 3C we are no different than last July 4th when we still had to wait and see if Cullen comes back or retires.

Also having Guentzel this July 4th is a big plus compared to what we had last year at this time. Just going through the players we have Bonino last July 4th and know we have Guentzel which is a big plus. We had Kunitz and now we have Reaves which I take as a plus because he allows the better we wingers play top 9 minutes and Kunitz rarely did: I also think Reaves will make more of an impact than what Kuniitz would if he was back instead this year. You can go through player for player and I don't see this "worlds apart" thing.

We all know JR will get us a very good 3C. I have complete faith the team we put on the ice will be even better than last years version. Pens are all in for a 3-peat. I believe if we are healthy come playoff time this will be our best team yet of the Crosby era. This is the best group of wingers we have supported our centers with starting a season and having a defenseman that has 51 points not even your best offensive defenseman is pretty nice to have. We have 6 defenseman that proved they can play 20 minutes a game during the playoffs. Not many teams have that depth for a 3rd pairing. We will be fine.

 

[66-30-33]

So how should JR look at the 3C search? young guys looking to find their way? Faksa, Haula, Shore, Bennett etc. Or look for already proven guys like Duchene, Johnson, Bozak. Or other types like Sheahan, Bjugstad, etc. Maybe we can find a hockey trade and offer up Sheary for someone, or something like that. Sheary for Faksa like what was posted on trade board, 1st for Haula, ??? for Shore.

 

[Peat]

Throw in Sprong and ZAR waiting in WBS and our winger depth is now off the charts. Like, its supernova. I get there's arguments about depth elsewhere, and that at centre we are still waiting for the moves to be made (although why anyone would doubt they would be...), but at wing? Oh hell no.

The main difference between our roster now and our roster this time last year, imo, is the number of young players who've strode on from 'maybes' to 'awesome'.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

w

Desharnais put up one more point in four less games playing with far worse players than Rowney in the playoffs. I also trust him as a 3C when Crosby or malkin have their eventual injury in season.

I am fine if Rowney needs to start the year as the 4C. We have lots of time for an upgrade if needed during the season. Rowney did have 3 goals and 7 points in his 27 regular season games. That is a pace of 9 goals and 21 points over 81 games which would be fine for 4C work. As long as we get a good scoring center for the 3C we will be fine. I rather have a good sized forechecking 4C over a Smurf.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

So how should JR look at the 3C search? young guys looking to find their way? Faksa, Haula, Shore, Bennett etc. Or look for already proven guys like Duchene, Johnson, Bozak. Or other types like Sheahan, Bjugstad, etc. Maybe we can find a hockey trade and offer up Sheary for someone, or something like that. Sheary for Faksa like what was posted on trade board, 1st for Haula, ??? for Shore.

Young guys or the rehab projects. I don't see JR breaking the bank here, tbh. And I don't see him going for someone who will be here for a year. He's probably trying to do the predatory thing again like scuderi for Daley or Sutter for Bonino+.

 

[BustaKapanen]

TT shouldn't cost that much, but he's not a proven center.

And there is always this, FYI there hasn't been much improvement in these trouble areas. Certainly doesn't scream 3c to me. Unless it's 3c on your fantasy hockey team.

McKeen’s Director of Scouting David Burstyn: “Teravainen may have the best hands in the draft. His offensive zone hockey sense rivals that of [Nail] Yakupov and [Mikhail] Grigorenko... What makes Teravainen so special is his innate ability to slow down the pace of game with the puck on his stick. Teravainen has superior puck-handling skills and can spot the open man or trailer with ease as he holds onto the puck until the last possible second before executing a pass. His shot is also calculated and well placed. It is above average in terms of release and quickness, but it is not a heavy shot, more so an accurate one. Teravainen’s lack of physical play has come into question. He can play on the perimeter and is not the type of player to dig in the corners or go to the front of the net to retrieve the puck. Nonetheless his ability to manufacture offense is very enticing to NHL teams. Teravainen needs to play with physical wingers at the NHL level who can get him the puck and also have the ability to keep up with his offensive imagination."

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Keep telling yourself 34 year old Jussi Jokinen can eat defensive minutes like Bonino has done in two straight cup runs.

Also, in what world is our defense a position of strength?

Uh, that's why I explicitly said 75%. Jokinen obviously isn't an ideal choice for 3C, but he's an example of a guy we could pick up for a song and make due with until a better option came along at some point during the season. The whole context of the conversation was that we could afford to wait on a deal because we were dealing from a position of strength, not that we would sign Jokinen and congratulate ourselves on a job well-done.

I'd be willing to re-sign Hornqvist if he'd be willing to accept a short extension, like 3 years.

This year will determine a lot, especially considering we're going to have to re-sign Guentzel and Rust to big raises too.

Sakic is only in the hot seat if he thinks he is/the owners think he is. Unless you think the owners are tired of him - and I think there's murmurs of him possibly being kicked upstairs - you're relying on Sakic being in touch with sanity. That seems a dicey proposition.

I get that we're not in a rush but at some point a move needs to be made. Its one thing if he's waiting for one of five guys to say "Okay", but if we're talking just one guy and that guy is Sakic?

Also, for all we know Jokinen signs somewhere tomorrow. If our leverage is the dying embers of the free agency market, that's pretty weak.

Our leverage is that we have the talent to be a very good regular season team even if we don't pick up an ideal 3C right away. The playoffs are a slam dunk regardless, and not many teams can say that.

That isn't what I'm insinuating at all. I'm responding to someone saying that we have the ability to acquire a 3rd center from a position of strength. Without Kunitz, Bonino, Cullen, Daley, Hainsey, etc. in our line-up we've lost significant depth. Specifically in the center and defense side. We can try to adjust that by trading wingers. If we try to move a Dumo or Maatta for a young cost controlled center which is what Rutherford has said he wants we are doing significant damage to an already weak d-core with a # 1 defenseman who is notorious for being injured.

If you can't see the difference between the roster we currently have and the roster we had last year on July 4th you're seriously over valuing some of our players. They are worlds apart.

You're comparing our roster on July 4th to an imaginary July 4th roster from last year that accounted for all of the improvements (and deadline acquisitions, apparently) that individual players made over the course of last year. Like we knew Guentzel would lead the playoffs in goal-scoring, Sheary would lead the league in P/60, and Schultz would finish top 10 in scoring among defensemen.

In other words...all of what TR said.

People are advocating we trade a player like Maatta to solve our hole at #3 center. That gives us Dumo, Cole, Schultz, Letang and Hunwick. If one of those players gets hurt, you are playing Hunwick in our top four. Its perfectly relevant. Every team but the Capitals has gotten better in our division, I would entertain an argument that the Rangers have basically stayed even with the loss of their back-up and # 1 center. We obviously have more moves to make, but when you see effective players taking one million dollars to be a #4 center in New York, you wonder what exactly is Rutherford doing and why is he banking on being able to trade unneeded assets for a Bonino replacement or waiting on Matt Cullen to make a decision.

Yeah, and in that event we'd have Matt Duchene as our 3rd line center and likely make a cap move to acquire another defenseman.

You're not only making premature evaluations of a roster in flux, you're also only seeing potential moves in isolation rather than involving multiple moving parts.

If you think the situation's so dire, which other teams would you trade rosters with for this upcoming season?

 

[Speaking Moistly]

And there is always this, FYI there hasn't been much improvement in these trouble areas. Certainly doesn't scream 3c to me. Unless it's 3c on your fantasy hockey team.

McKeen’s Director of Scouting David Burstyn: “Teravainen may have the best hands in the draft. His offensive zone hockey sense rivals that of [Nail] Yakupov and [Mikhail] Grigorenko... What makes Teravainen so special is his innate ability to slow down the pace of game with the puck on his stick. Teravainen has superior puck-handling skills and can spot the open man or trailer with ease as he holds onto the puck until the last possible second before executing a pass. His shot is also calculated and well placed. It is above average in terms of release and quickness, but it is not a heavy shot, more so an accurate one. Teravainen’s lack of physical play has come into question. He can play on the perimeter and is not the type of player to dig in the corners or go to the front of the net to retrieve the puck. Nonetheless his ability to manufacture offense is very enticing to NHL teams. Teravainen needs to play with physical wingers at the NHL level who can get him the puck and also have the ability to keep up with his offensive imagination."

Uhhhhhh.

The Pens could probably provide him with wingers like that if they were inclined to but I can't see him beinh the kind of player they'd target if the perimeter play and staying away from the dirty areas hold true.

 

[SCPens]

Desharnais put up one more point in four less games playing with far worse players than Rowney in the playoffs. I also trust him as a 3C when Crosby or malkin have their eventual injury in season.

What does that even mean? Did you watch any of his magnificent 9:31 per game in the playoffs? He scored one goal that meant anything and anyone in the league would've put that in. Desharnais is no deal. You're getting what you're paying for with him. The Rangers signing him actually makes the Pens stronger. In a 'worst' case scenario where Rutherford doesn't have the 4C figured out by the beginning of the season, I'd much rather see what Rowney could do given the chance to centre the 4th line instead of wasting money on some retread who's been cut by someone else. There's been a number players in the league who made an impact later in their careers. Joel Ward had a long path to his eventual success. I think with a little more confidence that Rowney might surprise more than a few people around here.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Desharnais put up one more point in four less games playing with far worse players than Rowney in the playoffs. I also trust him as a 3C when Crosby or malkin have their eventual injury in season.

Let's all take the time at some future date to remember this post about what a good option Desharnais would have been.

Possibly when we've acquired a much better center than Desharnais, which will definitely happen.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Anyone advocating for Desharnais probably hasn't watched him play much since about 2 or 3 years ago when he was on a line with Max Pac and putting up 50 point seasons.

There's a reason that a team like Montreal, who is incredibly weak down the middle, gave up on him.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I would just like to point out that it's July 4th, and the season doesn't start until October 4th. And even that isn't the deadline for completing our roster.

 

[66-30-33]

I would just like to point out that it's July 4th, and the season doesn't start until October 4th. And even that isn't the deadline for completing our roster.

3 months???? FFS!!!! wake me when October begins.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I'd also like to point out that Cullen didn't sign last year until August 17th.

Not signing some Desharnais equivalent out of impatience in the summer of '16 seemed like a good decision, and not signing Desharnais out of impatience in the summer of '17 seems like just as good a decision.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I would just like to point out that it's July 4th, and the season doesn't start until October 4th. And even that isn't the deadline for completing our roster.

Are people getting antsy? Honest question because I haven't read every page in this thread.

Which 3Cs are gone that people wanted JR to acquire that's causing all this angst? Or is it just because the Pens don't yet have a replacement for Bonino by July 4th?

 

[ColePens]

Throw in Sprong and ZAR waiting in WBS and our winger depth is now off the charts. Like, its supernova. I get there's arguments about depth elsewhere, and that at centre we are still waiting for the moves to be made (although why anyone would doubt they would be...), but at wing? Oh hell no.

The main difference between our roster now and our roster this time last year, imo, is the number of young players who've strode on from 'maybes' to 'awesome'.

Last year going into the season we had Rust/Sheary/Kuhn all question marks to see if they could back their season up. I would say Rust/Sheary far surpassed anything I would have imagined. Then Jake killed it at camp and we thought it was only a matter of time before he gets a shot, too. And he came in and dominated. I didn't even think Rowney/Ruh were legit candidates for important ice time and both guys were found to be very solid fill-ins. Ruh, especially, for a long time.

Throw in Sprong/ZAR and whoever else wants to step up and make a name for themselves, and we got something beautiful as we head into the season.

 

[ColePens]

Let's all take the time at some future date to remember this post about what a good option Desharnais would have been.

Possibly when we've acquired a much better center than Desharnais, which will definitely happen.

For the record, I've started bookmarking posts for later use. But you are referencing one of the very few who lose their minds on the Pens on 7/1 when they were quiet, even though 90% of us knew that was going to be the case.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

Throw in Sprong and ZAR waiting in WBS and our winger depth is now off the charts. Like, its supernova. I get there's arguments about depth elsewhere, and that at centre we are still waiting for the moves to be made (although why anyone would doubt they would be...), but at wing? Oh hell no.

The main difference between our roster now and our roster this time last year, imo, is the number of young players who've strode on from 'maybes' to 'awesome'.

Wingers off the chart and defense depth the exact same as last season at this time. In fact the D is even more proven now. With Letang out for half the season and playoffs it allowed others to prove they can handle top 4 minutes. At this time last year Schultz was still a question mark and now he is coming off a 51 point season and 13 more points in the playoffs. Besides for center this team is better at this point than last July 4th. Murray has another year of experience and now proven performer. Guentzel went from an AHL player to scoring 33 points in 40 games and one of the top scores in the playoffs.

This team is in a very strong position at this point. The only real spot we need to fix is 3C and getting a 4C if Cullen does retire and Rowney proves not to handle the job. What team would not want to have only that problem to fill. Best 1-2 punch at center in the league, one of the best winger groups in the NHL with Kessel, Guentzel, Hornqvist, Sheary, Hagelin, Rust; Wilson, Reaves, and Kuhnhackl as the first winger off the bench. Sprong and Ashton-Reese also as injury call ups like Guentzel and Archibald last year. A defense group led by one of the top defenseman in the game and 5 other defenseman all capable of playing 20 minutes a game. A goalie that has never lost a playoff series 6-0 and 2-0 in the Cup Finals. Filling a 3C spot is not that hard to do and will get done. 4C's are a dime a dozen so we are primed for another run. I have no problem trading picks to get it done. We have all the future we need on the team now to sustain a run while the core is here.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

3 months???? FFS!!!! wake me when October begins.

Sure. I can wake you up when September ends...this is an older reference than I initially realized.

Are people getting antsy? Honest question because I haven't read every page in this thread.

Which 3Cs are gone that people wanted JR to acquire that's causing all this angst? Or is it just because the Pens don't yet have a replacement for Bonino by July 4th?

I'm bored and want to know how it ends because there's a reason I seek out spoilers so often.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

For the record, I've started bookmarking posts for later use. But you are referencing one of the very few who lose their minds on the Pens on 7/1 when they were quiet, even though 90% of us knew that was going to be the case.

Yeah, that opinion doesn't represent the majority of fans here.

Just gotta address the outliers from time to time haha.

 

[Pick87your71Poison]

I can't believe we are sitting on July 4th off of back to back cups with one spot we really need to address with the cap space to do it and a GM that has made it clear he knows it needs addressed and people are complaining that we missed out on David Desharnais of all people. If you are reaching down for that bargain bin level player for the 4th line, I see no reason to rush out and do it now over letting a young guy get time during the season to see what we have and address it as needed. Getting a guy of his caliber for the bottom line costs very little to address in $ or assets at any point. However, letting an unproven player get some time and develop and see what we have at least gives us the potential for upside and internal fixes, which we have seen is so extremely valuable over the last couple years. You know what you get with Desharnais with no upside and it's nothing very exciting.

You would think seeing what the opportunities that were given to guys like Guentzel, Sheary, Rust, Wilson, Kuhnhackl, Rowney, Archibald, etc over the last couple of years has done for us in contributing to two cups and shaping our roster with so much more quality and cheap depth would be enough for people not to want to just plug every free roster spot with mediocre vets for the sake of having a known commodity in there even if it's not a very good one. If we had been signing too many guys like Desharnais and Hemsky the last couple off-seasons, we may never have the spots and opportunities to give those guys above real playing time in the NHL. Most of those guys were not blue chip prospects that we knew we would find a way to get playing time (like Sprong), but guys that got a shot because of openings and then turned out far better and cheaper than anyone we could have grabbed externally.

Let this stuff play out and be patient. Panic moves and desperation to fill a hole or two right now is completely unnecessary given our roster. We don't need much, so let's make the RIGHT move and not just A move so that we can say the spot is filled.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I'm bored and want to know how it ends because there's a reason I seek out spoilers so often.

I can't tell if you're making fun of me here, so I'll just assume you are.