Salary Cap: Salary Cap Summer | The Hunt for 3C | Updated cap info in Post #1

[Peat]

It really isn't a minor gamble. We have the opportunity to make a similar move like we did at the end of July to get Bonino and sign Fehr, but those deals were mainly made because Bones was a disappointment in Vancouver (plus Benning) and Fehr was going to be out until December with surgery. Signing a player like Desharnais is exactly like signing Fehr. Low risk, moderate reward signing. We have the cap space to make a signing like that.

Center depth is what won us back to back cups. I'm also curious exactly what player would be Sutter in this hypothetical trade.

I believe that regardless of what we start the season with, Rutherford will have 5 good centres on the roster come trade deadline. What we start the season with and what we use for the 3-peat effort are two different things.

Maybe we end up paying more for them because of our gamble of waiting for Cullen/trusting Rowney instead of getting a guy like Desharnais but I do not believe the added cost will be major. Brian Boyle last season was a 2nd and a minor leaguer and you've got to think that's as good a specialist 4C as you can get.

Since the worst that happens is we overpay in a fairly minor way, I will stick with it being a minor gamble.

 

[WayneSid9987]

If JR cant get a deal done this offseason it's not the end of the world. The good news is we have 3 wingers versatile enough to play center in Wilson, Guentzel, and Rawney. They can hold down the fort until we find a more permanent solution.

More than that really. I'd probably leave out Wilson.
Jake, Rowney, McKegg, Bleugers. Maybe a guy like ZAR who isn't quite ready yet put has the smarts to play the position.

But JR will probably have another C before the season starts at the very least.
Cullen could come back still too.

 

[Pick87your71Poison]

Still think we should get a cheap player that can play center and wing. Still hoping for grigorenko or jokinen. Depending on how the 3c hunt going and how they view Rowney, they can either play center, wing or healthy scratch.

It was just announced that Grigorenko is going to the KHL so you can scratch that one off your list.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Not including Cullen or Mike Fisher, Jussi Jokinen and Brandon Pirri seem to be the only centers left on the UFA board who have any sort of offensive ability. Everyone else doesn't seem like an upgrade over just playing Rowney at 4C.

What about Pirri? He seems to be utilized a lot as a powerplay specialist wherever he goes, hinting at an offensive upside. Could he be a diamond-in-the-rough signing like Marchessault ended up being with a bit of playing time and quality linemates? Or would he just be a defensive liability that takes up space by about game #30?

 

[Gurglesons]

I believe that regardless of what we start the season with, Rutherford will have 5 good centres on the roster come trade deadline. What we start the season with and what we use for the 3-peat effort are two different things.

Maybe we end up paying more for them because of our gamble of waiting for Cullen/trusting Rowney instead of getting a guy like Desharnais but I do not believe the added cost will be major. Brian Boyle last season was a 2nd and a minor leaguer and you've got to think that's as good a specialist 4C as you can get.

Since the worst that happens is we overpay in a fairly minor way, I will stick with it being a minor gamble.

If we are making an in season trade for a center you are looking at a player like Boyle being your best option. Centers just don't get traded in season.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Imagine JR being to cheap to trade for a 3c during the summer. Then one of sid and Geno will get hurt to start the season and we have one 1st and one 4th center on the team....

What, you aren't looking forward to Carter Rowney, the 2nd liner?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

If JR cant get a deal done this offseason it's not the end of the world. The good news is we have 3 wingers versatile enough to play center in Wilson, Guentzel, and Rawney. They can hold down the fort until we find a more permanent solution.

1. Wilson last played center when?
2. Guentzel is then taken off of Crosby's wing, so we ruin one thing to fix another and Guentzel hasn't been a regular C in a while.
3. If Rowney is playing C past our 4th line, we're in ****ing trouble.

The goal is to be more improved than last year.

So far, we aren't. We lost Daley and replaced him with Hunwick. We lost Bonino and haven't replaced him, we don't have Cullen yet and we're looking at Rowney as the stop gap for that role. We lost a depth LW'er and that is something we can replace production wise, but a lot of chemistry and experience is gone, which should be fine with what we have experience wise.

But we need an even better 3C than last year if Rowney is our 4C, you can't have an "Adequate" 3C and then Rowney.

 

[Gurglesons]

Not including Cullen or Mike Fisher, Jussi Jokinen and Brandon Pirri seem to be the only centers left on the UFA board who have any sort of offensive ability. Everyone else doesn't seem like an upgrade over just playing Rowney at 4C.

What about Pirri? He seems to be utilized a lot as a powerplay specialist wherever he goes, hinting at an offensive upside. Could he be a diamond-in-the-rough signing like Marchessault ended up being with a bit of playing time and quality linemates? Or would he just be a defensive liability that takes up space by about game #30?

We don't need a player that can score as our center, if he can that is a good thing. We need a player that can PK. If Cullen doesn't resign we are losing our two biggest PKers from last year. It also makes Hagelin more essential to our line-up which sucks because he's the obvious winger to move for cap relief.

 

[Giskard]

Just a reminder: Rutherford didn't make the Sutter-Bonino trade until July 28, 2015. The man is patient.

Man, still no news? I'm a little more than slightly worried now. More so that JR is going to wait it out too long and then end up over paying.

Almost consecutive posts

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

We don't need a player that can score as our center, if he can that is a good thing. We need a player that can PK. If Cullen doesn't resign we are losing our two biggest PKers from last year. It also makes Hagelin more essential to our line-up which sucks because he's the obvious winger to move for cap relief.

I was just looking at the UFA list of centers remaining. The reason I mention those two is because the alternatives that can PK are either on par or worse than just using Carter Rowney in that spot. Guys like McClemment, John Mitchell, Chris Kelly, etc.

At least both Jokinen and Pirri have offensive ability that would allow the 4-line attack Sullivan likes to keep going.

(Jokinen can PK anyway)

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Almost consecutive posts

Ok, to be fair...that was after years of Bylsma & Shero jobbing this team after 2009 and then firing Bylsma and hiring Mike Johnston and changing up the team. This is now after back 2 back cups, losing multiple veterans and key players for the 2 cups and replacing some with solid youth, but others with nothing.

Oh and the expansion draft and a team that didn't exist before, can sign players too and teams now have more options after buy outs and losing guys to the expansion draft.

Also, Benning got smarter, so the only nimrod GM JR can try to fleece is Sakic and he's too idiotic to even negotiate.

 

[deakka]

What, you aren't looking forward to Carter Rowney, the 2nd liner?

No no
He will be 3rd. We will first gut our 1st line and move Guentzel to 2c.....

 

[Gurglesons]

I was just looking at the UFA list of centers remaining. The reason I mention those two is because the alternatives that can PK are either on par or worse than just using Carter Rowney in that spot. Guys like McClemment, John Mitchell, Chris Kelly, etc.

At least both Jokinen and Pirri have offensive ability that would allow the 4-line attack Sullivan likes to keep going.

(Jokinen can PK anyway)

Okay. I'll point to the fact that Pirri has never played in the playoffs due to being a healthy scratch and bringing up him or 34 year old Jussi Jokinen as a retread is exactly why I'm worried about a roster's center depth going into this season regardless of it only being July 4th.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I was just looking at the UFA list of centers remaining. The reason I mention those two is because the alternatives that can PK are either on par or worse than just using Carter Rowney in that spot. Guys like McClemment, John Mitchell, Chris Kelly, etc.

At least both Jokinen and Pirri have offensive ability that would allow the 4-line attack Sullivan likes to keep going.

(Jokinen can PK anyway)

What the hell, why do I keep getting logged out on this site?

In any case...

Two things that are key for either guy for me, well more than two things.

Faceoff's, we need our 2 bottom 6 Centers to be good at them. Here's what Bones and Cullen were at the dot in their 2yrs with the team.

Bonino:
Y1 - 50.4%
Y2 - 48%

Cullen:
Y1 - 55.7%
Y2 - 51.2%

Rowney:
48% this past season.

This is Jokinen in his last 2yrs with Florida - 51.5% and last year 52.1 (btw, in 2015-16, McKegg played 15 games for the Panthers, was 45% on faceoffs). I am on board with Juice as one of the C's for sure, just not sure where. If we got Jokinen to sign for 1yr dirt cheap as our 4th line C, man...depth!

Pirri is actually a fantastic faceoff guy if you only count last year, 57.6% on the Rangers. On the Panthers he was 49.1% and 46.8% and 42.9% on the Hawks.

The other being production. Jokinen is the more proven guy, he's 34yrs old

 

[Peat]

If we are making an in season trade for a center you are looking at a player like Boyle being your best option. Centers just don't get traded in season.

Johansen?

Boyle-level does fine if there's a hole on the 4th. Happy to trust Rutherford to pull off the 3C in season if needs must, although I guess we might end up in overpayment territory then.

 

[Gurglesons]

Johansen?

Yeah, I know, but that is a weird situation of an organization moving on from an asset that decided they didn't want.

I don't really see us moving a Seth Jones level player on our roster this year unless we really come out of the gate losing. Honestly, without a major move for center depth, I'd be surprised if we are above 3rd or 4th in the Metro. Especially if Letang isn't ready for the beginning of the season.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Okay. I'll point to the fact that Pirri has never played in the playoffs due to being a healthy scratch and bringing up him or 34 year old Jussi Jokinen as a retread is exactly why I'm worried about a roster's center depth going into this season regardless of it only being July 4th.

Dude, you were complaining that JR dropped the ball because he didn't sign David freakin' Desharnais a couple of pages back.

How does he fill the void on the PK/defensively more than either of Jokinen or Pirri do? The guy was let go by a team with no center depth, and then played on the Oilers' 4th line, with zero PK minutes for either club.

 

[Peat]

Yeah, I know, but that is a weird situation of an organization moving on from an asset that decided they didn't want.

I don't really see us moving a Seth Jones level player on our roster this year unless we really come out of the gate losing. Honestly, without a major move for center depth, I'd be surprised if we are above 3rd or 4th in the Metro. Especially if Letang isn't ready for the beginning of the season.

The move will happen. Rutherford has said it will. Just a matter of when and how much.

 

[Gurglesons]

Dude, you were complaining that JR dropped the ball because he didn't sign David freakin' Desharnais a couple of pages back.

How does he fill the void on the PK/defensively more than either of Jokinen or Pirri do? The guy was let go by a team with no center depth, and then played on the Oilers' 4th line, with zero PK minutes for either club.

Desharnais is a low risk, moderate pay off signing for 1 million - 1 year, two way deal. Not to mention he just flat out wins face offs. Don't let Montreal of all places cloud your view of a player. He had a solid outing on the Oils after getting out of that **** show.

Jokinen is a different story. I like him as a player and he is a gamer in the playoffs, I just think there is something about him where he disappears for long stretches of time. I wouldn't necesarrily be upset about a 1- 1.5 million dollar, 1 year deal for Jussi though.

 

[Tender Rip]

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=101629

Just one note on Rowney.... which may or may not mean anything.

If you look at this last three years in WBS, there is marked improvement every year. Like Sullivan has been talking about in interviews, this is a guy who has just flat out raised his level and looks like he is continuing to do so.

If you look at his regular season production on the Pens, where in the regular season he was up mostly for a period of time where we were ravaged by injuries, he did produce 3 goals and 7 points in 27 games, which we could round up to a 9 goal 21 points pace if he does not improve further and without added minutes.

It is not Matt Cullen, obviously, but its not like it is pathetic for a 4th line C either.

 

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

Saying that Guentzel to center "guts" the first line is some Mark Madden level hyperbole. When has Sheary-Crosby-Hornqvist not been an effective line?


It would be more accurate that moving Guentzel to center guts the left wing depth, although even that is arguable. But using the GCS line does so just as much, and it seems like half the board wants to go back to that anyway.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=101629

Just one note on Rowney.... which may or may not mean anything.

If you look at this last three years in WBS, there is marked improvement every year. Like Sullivan has been talking about in interviews, this is a guy who has just flat out raised his level and looks like he is continuing to do so.

If you look at his regular season production on the Pens, where in the regular season he was up mostly for a period of time where we were ravaged by injuries, he did produce 3 goals and 7 points in 27 games, which we could round up to a 9 goal 21 points pace if he does not improve further and without added minutes.

It is not Matt Cullen, obviously, but its not like it is pathetic for a 4th line C either.

I like Rowney, I like his work ethic and I like the idea of a unit of Wilson, Rowney, Archibald if it could ever happen while Reaves is there, but even if we went with Rowney as our 4C and Cullen does go back home to Minnesota, that 3C spot needs to be a stud. JR needs to pull off that steal of a trade.

 

[Gurglesons]

The move will happen. Rutherford has said it will. Just a matter of when and how much.

Rutherford's moves this offseason strike me far more closer to 2014 than 2015 or 16.

Who exactly do you see us acquiring that could have a Bonino like effect here for the pieces we gave up for him? We are going to have to move big picks or major pieces to fill in a player like Bonino's role with the team especially with teams like the Islanders, Columbus, Montreal, etc.

Also, like Honour said we are back to back champs. Nobody is looking to help us out let alone as a team that they want to see get stronger.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Saying that Guentzel to center "guts" the first line is some Mark Madden level hyperbole. When has Sheary-Crosby-Hornqvist not been an effective line?


It would be more accurate that moving Guentzel to center guts the left wing depth, although even that is arguable. But using the GCS line does so just as much, and it seems like half the board wants to go back to that anyway.

Before Guentzel with Sid, no one knew what a winger that thought the game like him would look like on his LW, then we do, and now people are ok with him being moved to 3C duties and go back to Sheary who doesn't think the game like Crosby and that's ok? Because it worked? One worked fairly well, the other worked insanely well.


That's like eating steak at ****ing Denny's all your life, then finally tasting an expensive cut of beef and saying you know what, if I had the option of either and money wasn't the issue, I am ok with the Denny's cut.

That's just ****ing stupid, mate.

 

[Peat]

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=101629

Just one note on Rowney.... which may or may not mean anything.

If you look at this last three years in WBS, there is marked improvement every year. Like Sullivan has been talking about in interviews, this is a guy who has just flat out raised his level and looks like he is continuing to do so.

If you look at his regular season production on the Pens, where in the regular season he was up mostly for a period of time where we were ravaged by injuries, he did produce 3 goals and 7 points in 27 games, which we could round up to a 9 goal 21 points pace if he does not improve further and without added minutes.

It is not Matt Cullen, obviously, but its not like it is pathetic for a 4th line C either.

And before anyone says it, Rowney's production didn't come from being Cullen's wing, he only played 30 minutes of regular season with him.

Wilson-Rowney-Archibald was a pretty sweet line. If Reaves can be Archibald plus...