Salary Cap: Salary Cap Summer | The Hunt for 3C | Updated cap info in Post #1

[Jag68Sid87]

Faksa, Tierney and Lowry are all on teams who already have a good amount of centers. Surely a reasonable move can be made for one of them.

Faksa is un-signed, but I would be more than surprised if Dallas let him go. He just seems to fit Hitchcock hockey to a tee. I think the obvious available guys in Dallas are Spezza and Shore.

Tierney is San Jose's 4C. They do like Ryan Carpenter a lot and have Daniel O'Regan coming up too, but Tierney is their Cullen. Does a lot of PK work. I doubt they'd move Tierney. I don't think they'd move O'Regan, either, with Thornton on a one-year deal. If they feel Carpenter is ready, they could always move Hertl to wing to replace Marleau, though they already have internal replacements for Marleau in Sorensen and Labanc. I don't really think the Sharks are a good trading partner, unless they want to part with Hertl.

Lowry is a good one. I wonder if they'd part with him, though, seeing as how they have built such a big, aggressive team over there. I think Petan is more available.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

If we are making an in season trade for a center you are looking at a player like Boyle being your best option. Centers just don't get traded in season.

Filppula
Boyle
Johansen
Desharnais
Hanzal
Fiddler
Holland

https://www.nhl.com/news/2016-17-nhl-trades/c-281003458

There's also a pretty decent list of UFA centers this year and next:

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/cap-central/freeagents.php?team=all&type=UFA&year=2018&pos=C
http://www.hockeybuzz.com/cap-central/freeagents.php?team=all&type=UFA&year=2019&pos=C

We don't need a player that can score as our center, if he can that is a good thing. We need a player that can PK. If Cullen doesn't resign we are losing our two biggest PKers from last year. It also makes Hagelin more essential to our line-up which sucks because he's the obvious winger to move for cap relief.

Rowney played 1:48 SHTOI/G in the playoffs last year, about :30 seconds less per game than Cullen/Bonino, and pretty much identical to what Fehr had played the playoffs before (1:50 SHTOI/G)):

http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?agg...lter=gamesPlayed,gte,&sort=shTimeOnIcePerGame

It isn't about panic moves. Going into July 4th of last offseason we had both Bonino and Fehr signed to shore up our 3C and 4C. Fehr was a 4C. We have no 3C. Last year we could afford to play the waiting game with Cullen, because we effectively had two proven NHL centers. This year we can't. Desharnais and Hemsky are completely different players. Signing Desharnais to a one million dollar, one year contract is exactly the type of bargain bin signing that contenders make and your example of Guentzel, Sheary, Wilson, Rust, etc has nothing to do with that because we had winger depth that allowed those players to ease in. Having a roster with Hagelin, Kunitz, Kessel and Hornqvist all to fall back on if Sheary and Rust didn't play as well in 2016-17 helped. Having players like Wilson and Guentzel waiting in the wings also helped. We literally have nobody to fill in for the center position.

Hopefully, we make two smart moves towards the end of July like we did in 2015 in the Sutter trade and Fehr signing. The main issue is that the more we wait the more we have to trade an actual roster player versus signing a UFA for free. Whatever. This board always thinks I'm an idiot.

Nobody thinks you're an idiot, but there's a lot of unsubstantiated worries here. Just about the only difference from this time last year center-wise is that we don't yet have a 3C, and if we didn't want to sign Bonino to a risky deal or make a panic move just to have somebody, this seems to be the best course of action.

Patience.

Rowney isn't a demonstrable step down from Fehr as he produced at virtually the same rate and played exactly the same PK time, and is much stronger along the boards. In fact, Rowney's emergence is a big part of what made Fehr totally expendable last season.

It would be more accurate that moving Guentzel to center guts the left wing depth, although even that is arguable. But using the GCS line does so just as much, and it seems like half the board wants to go back to that anyway.

I wonder why?

I won't write off the possibility of Guentzel to center at some point, but I'd much rather keep him on Sid's wing and address the 3C issue externally.

 

[NMK11]

Im not going to complain about this offseason, but I will say it feels like we haven't done much to make us a better team. We had two big needs to me, a 3C and second pairing defenseman, which Id honestly want even if we had resigned Daley but is now even more important that he's gone. We've done neither. Reaves and Hunwick are fine depth guys (even if the latter is a bit pricey for me) but neither address our issues. I honestly don't think depth is a problem on this team as is, especially at forward.

I have no problem going into the season with holes, particularly at D where I think we're good enough to run with during the regular season and see what some AHL guys can do. I'm also fine that for the first time in forever the holes aren't on the wing. It's a weird feeling but I feel like we could literally lose any one of our wingers minus maybe Kessel and we'd still be fine.

 

[dasuc]

What about trading with Vancouver for Horvat? He's unsigned- RFA right now and they have a ton of centers. He's probably worth a lot but he would be a great 3C.

 

[seabs926]

What about trading with Vancouver for Horvat? He's unsigned- RFA right now and they have a ton of centers. He's probably worth a lot but he would be a great 3C.

They'd be asking for Guentzel (and potentially more). I doubt they'd do Maatta+.

 

[Shady Machine]

I don't agree with Pixies in total, but I know I'd feel a little more comfortable if Sunny were still around. At least in that case, you have 2 guys at 4C and could survive the early season with one of Rowney/Sunny at 3C. Right now, I have no idea who would even play 3C. It's still early, but JR even said they could wait until early in the season. Yeah they will be fine, but it would be nice to at least have enough NHL centers on the roster.

 

[dasuc]

What about:
TO VAN: Sheary, Kuhnhackl
TO PIT: Horvat, a Draft Pick

We switch unsigned-RFA with them in Horvat and Sheary and both sides add a little. Sheary is nice to have but we need a good center and Horvart is 3 years younger.

Also opens up a winger spot for Sprong or ZAR to come up at some point.

 

[End of Line]

What about:
TO VAN: Sheary, Kuhnhackl
TO PIT: Horvat, a Draft Pick

We switch unsigned-RFA with them in Horvat and Sheary and both sides add a little. Sheary is nice to have but we need a good center and Horvart is 3 years younger.

Also opens up a winger spot for Sprong or ZAR to come up at some point.

Yeah that's not happening. It would have to be an overpayment to get Horvat away from Vancouver.

 

[sf expat71]

I don't agree with Pixies in total, but I know I'd feel a little more comfortable if Sunny were still around. At least in that case, you have 2 guys at 4C and could survive the early season with one of Rowney/Sunny at 3C. Right now, I have no idea who would even play 3C. It's still early, but JR even said they could wait until early in the season. Yeah they will be fine, but it would be nice to at least have enough NHL centers on the roster.

That's the crux of it I feel. Even if we did sign a 3C tomorrow, we'd still essentially be 4 NHL centers with no depth unless we move some of our wingers to C. It's nice to have Rowney and Sunny level replacements as depth for when the inevitable injuries occur. The chances of us getting through the season injury free are remote to none, so we need to shore up our depth chart, especially down the middle. Still early though, a lot can and will change by October.

 

[Tender Rip]

What about:
TO VAN: Sheary, Kuhnhackl
TO PIT: Horvat, a Draft Pick

We switch unsigned-RFA with them in Horvat and Sheary and both sides add a little. Sheary is nice to have but we need a good center and Horvart is 3 years younger.

Also opens up a winger spot for Sprong or ZAR to come up at some point.

If you were a Vancouver fan, would you think this made any sense at all to your team? No? Then if you were a neutral fan, would you think the only approximation Canucks have of a future potential franchise player should be made available for Conor Sheary? No?

Then maybe we should shelve it?

 

[seabs926]

What about:
TO VAN: Sheary, Kuhnhackl
TO PIT: Horvat, a Draft Pick

We switch unsigned-RFA with them in Horvat and Sheary and both sides add a little. Sheary is nice to have but we need a good center and Horvart is 3 years younger.

Also opens up a winger spot for Sprong or ZAR to come up at some point.

Horvat was tied for 20th in ES points among C last year. We're not getting a borderline #1C for a top 6 winger and a depth forward.

Horvat has more value than Duchene and some people have been OK with Maatta, Sheary, and a 1st round pick for Duchene.

 

[Zero Pucks]

What about:
TO VAN: Sheary, Kuhnhackl
TO PIT: Horvat, a Draft Pick

We switch unsigned-RFA with them in Horvat and Sheary and both sides add a little. Sheary is nice to have but we need a good center and Horvart is 3 years younger.

Also opens up a winger spot for Sprong or ZAR to come up at some point.

Vancouver isn't going to let Horvat go anywhere. I wish we could get him for that but it'd cost a ton more.

 

[theicebox]

Sign Jokinen for the 3.5 C role, to be safe. Simple. Address other options as they come.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I don't agree with Pixies in total, but I know I'd feel a little more comfortable if Sunny were still around. At least in that case, you have 2 guys at 4C and could survive the early season with one of Rowney/Sunny at 3C. Right now, I have no idea who would even play 3C. It's still early, but JR even said they could wait until early in the season. Yeah they will be fine, but it would be nice to at least have enough NHL centers on the roster.

We kinda replaced Sundqvist with McKegg. He is not great but he can challenge Rowney for 4C. And so can a bunch of our internal options, too.

There are still a lot of unresolved center issues around the league. I am sure JR will be in on at least one of them, if not the reported 5.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Sign Jokinen for the 3.5 C role, to be safe. Simple. Address other options as they come.

He does not address anything, in my mind.

If you are going to gamble on a winger becoming a 3C for us, we should gamble on a guy with far more scoring upside than Jokinen (whose best days are long gone).

Either we get a scorer and accept his defense at 3C, or get a two-way guy who can produce some of the lost offense and who can be trusted as a center/face-off man/PKer, etc.

With Jokinen, you get neither. You're a little bit pregnant.

 

[Shady Machine]

We kinda replaced Sundqvist with McKegg. He is not great but he can challenge Rowney for 4C. And so can a bunch of our internal options, too.

There are still a lot of unresolved center issues around the league. I am sure JR will be in on at least one of them, if not the reported 5.

I admittedly don't know much about McKegg and was probably higher on Sunny than I should have been.

I agree that JR has time and am confident he will find a 3C.

 

[chethejet]

This is back up QB stuff to me. Pens will bring in a good 3rd line center and with Letang back and Jake for the whole year. Plus flexibility with Sprong and Reese on the come, Pens have far more flexibility for a two time cup winner than anyone expected. Dumo signing still leave 8 million in cap space and if a player or two are moved to acquire a center, that may be a wash or close to it. The exception is Staal. He will go for picks and prospects.

 

[Koempel]

Some here have no patience. Fortunately JR does, and gleaning from his comments in the media he has prepared for several scenarios. I do not believe this will turn into some kind of semi-disastrous off season like the Caps are having. Their GM has no patience at all (evidenced by the Mojo trade), and he seems inept at having a plan B, C and so forth. Just wait, and if we still do not have a decent 3C at the start of the season you may complain and panic a bit (though in-season trades are often less disastrous).

 

[cheesedanish87]

Reading through the thread i think lots of you are really underestimating Sheary's next contract, 53 points in 61 games will get him a good contract in arbitration if he goes that route.

Burakovsky just got 3 million per year after scoring 35 points in 64 games, Sheary definitely deserves more then that.

 

[Clare2904]

This is back up QB stuff to me. Pens will bring in a good 3rd line center and with Letang back and Jake for the whole year. Plus flexibility with Sprong and Reese on the come, Pens have far more flexibility for a two time cup winner than anyone expected. Dumo signing still leave 8 million in cap space and if a player or two are moved to acquire a center, that may be a wash or close to it. The exception is Staal. He will go for picks and prospects.

He has signed? Where are the details?

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I admittedly don't know much about McKegg and was probably higher on Sunny than I should have been.

I agree that JR has time and am confident he will find a 3C.

I liked Sunny a lot too, but I suppose the org thought that with Rowney showing himself capable of a 4C role last year and Blueger having a nice rookie season in the A that he wasn't too essential now or moving forward.

 

[ColePens]

Reading through the thread i think lots of you are really underestimating Sheary's next contract, 53 points in 61 games will get him a good contract in arbitration if he goes that route.

Burakovsky just got 3 million per year after scoring 35 points in 64 games, Sheary definitely deserves more then that.

Yeah.. especially with what players are being paid. I sort of agree. I think there are lots of arguments for why it should be around 3m or 3.5, Sheary's agent has a lot of comparables out there.

 

[SEALBound]

On the other hand, using Guentzel as a C opens up the possibility of having three top scoring lines, which has also worked insanely well. I think it's something that they should seriously consider, now that what they did last year (two top scoring lines and two secondary scoring lines) is impossible. Swapping Cullen off the fourth line and Reaves onto it pretty much means the 4th line can't be a secondary scoring line. It's a stupid grinder line now.

Guentzel with Crosby is more fun to watch. Is it actually more productive, though? Ultimately, I only care about winning hockey games, not whether Crosby has his perfect linemate. The change certainly doesn't effect Crosby's production as much as it effects how the line looks, if it does so at all. If Guentzel to C makes the Crosby line a little less productive but gives the team three top scoring lines, I say it's a serious consideration. If it doesn't effect the line's production, then I say it's a no-brainer.

Off season around here is like a full moon. People start getting weird. Remember last off-season the screaming matches between people arguing that Kunitz was a bona fied top 6 winger and that all the hate was 100% unjustified? Yeah, it gets really weird around here.

This off season it will be people convincing themselves that Guentzel is the answer to our 3C woes. It's not going to happen. It's never going to happen. It's not even in the plans to happen nor is it even being considered. Ovechkin has an equally as likely chance of being the Penguins 3C next year than Guentzel does.

Grigorenko signed with CSKA Moscow. He's done with the NHL for now.

That's probably the best thing for him to be honest. Go recoup, try again in 2-3 years if you don't like the KHL.

What is the obsession with Antoine Vermette? A few years ago everybody here wanted him badly, and then his game went into the toilet. Now we still want him?

He makes over $1 million to win face-offs, basically. He is THIS close to becoming Manny Malhotra. Vermette's offensive game is completely gone.

He is a 4C now, no more.

Right? I blame nostalgia with certain guys. He was a 2C with Arizona in his prime and that's the AV people want. I rarely noticed him in the Ducks playoff games. Yeah he's good at faceoffs still but as far as effective centers go, I doubt he makes the list. Also, Ducks have no reason to move him. Why would they? They just lost Thompson.

They'd be asking for Guentzel (and potentially more). I doubt they'd do Maatta+.

They wouldn't and they shouldn't. Horvat is a key piece for them moving forward.

What about:
TO VAN: Sheary, Kuhnhackl
TO PIT: Horvat, a Draft Pick

We switch unsigned-RFA with them in Horvat and Sheary and both sides add a little. Sheary is nice to have but we need a good center and Horvart is 3 years younger.

Also opens up a winger spot for Sprong or ZAR to come up at some point.

Not close. Please do not post this on the main trade boards. I beg of you.

I admittedly don't know much about McKegg and was probably higher on Sunny than I should have been.

I agree that JR has time and am confident he will find a 3C.

I have confidence that he will. I just REALLY wish it wasn't Sundqvist that left. He was at least a 4C for us. I'd feel a little bit better about the situation than I do now. Even if worst case:

Hagelin-Sundqvist-Hornqvist
Wilson-Rowney-Reaves

That's an acceptable bottom 6 to run early in the season. That 3C is a huge hole...

 

[Jaded-Fan]

The cap went up slightly and it was a particularly weak FA class. I am not sure some of the contracts are indicative of value, even with the consideration of people saying how ridiculous a number of contracts are each year, not just this year.

In any event the team at present is not going to be the team going into the playoffs. As one said above, this is backup QB territory. Important stuff, as depth and four working lines is incredibly important, but it is not like 3Cs and 4Cs are all that hard to find. They are fairly plentiful and interchangable parts, and the Pens have the cap space to do it right at the right time.

They do not even have to be speedy skaters, as we saw when Bones was the center of HBK. Simply be smart and make accurate passes to speedy wingers and let the wings drive the play on that line and clean up garbage when they get into the zone five minutes later.

I am disappointed that the Pens did not make more of a splash but maybe it was wise not to. I have zero doubts that the team will be solid come April, absent major injuries heading into the playoffs.

 

[Shady Machine]

Reading through the thread i think lots of you are really underestimating Sheary's next contract, 53 points in 61 games will get him a good contract in arbitration if he goes that route.

Burakovsky just got 3 million per year after scoring 35 points in 64 games, Sheary definitely deserves more then that.

Burakovsky also has a larger sample size of NHL production. He has 3 seasons of 22, 38, and 35 points. Based on actual games played, that's an average of 40 points per 82.

Sheary is averaging 49 points, but that's only based on 105 games.

I can see the argument made both ways for these two players, but I think it's a decent comparable for a bridge deal. I could see 2 years - 7MM total as a fair deal for both sides.