Salary Cap: Salary Cap Summer | The Hunt for 3C | Updated cap info in Post #1

[CertifiedLurker]

That's an awful deal for the Penguins, Sheary is more valuable than JVR and a 1st and 2nd is more valuable than Bozak.

Are you kidding? A 2nd is NOT more valuable than Bozak, what are you even talking about? I'm also not sure Sheary is more valuable than JVR AND a 1st, but that's at least a bit more arguable because Sheary is a young, cost-controlled, proven 50 point winger and JVR is going to be a UFA at the end of next year.

But Bozak for a 2nd? That should be a no brainer yes.

 

[seabs926]

Are you kidding? A 2nd is NOT more valuable than Bozak, what are you even talking about? I'm also not sure Sheary is more valuable than JVR AND a 1st, but that's at least a bit more arguable because Sheary is a young, cost-controlled, proven 50 point winger and JVR is going to be a UFA at the end of next year.

But Bozak for a 2nd? That should be a no brainer yes.

Be sure to read the post Empoleon was responding to. It'll change your tune.

I'd probably do the deal without the 1st round pick, but Toronto likely doesn't and it would force us to make other deals to get under the cap.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Maybe they already have the solution internally for 3rd C.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I really think a deal with Calgary involving Hornqvist and Bennett makes sense for both parties. We would probably have to send a conditional pick as well, considering the difference in ages. Condition being that Hornqvist re-signs with Calgary or not before July 1, 2018.

And before people start with the whole, "we cannot trade Horny, he plays a certain way that not many on our team play, etc.", well Bennett plays that way too. He is gritty beyond belief and is developing into a very solid two-way center.

The Flames are desperately searching for a RW to play with Gaudreau and Monahan. Perhaps they'd overpay to land someone with Hornqvist's playoff pedigree.

Also, if they are serious about giving Mark Jankowski a shot in the NHL, this would be the opportunity to do so.

I would also be very interested in Jankowski on a much smaller deal.

 

[Daeni10]

Are you kidding? A 2nd is NOT more valuable than Bozak, what are you even talking about? I'm also not sure Sheary is more valuable than JVR AND a 1st, but that's at least a bit more arguable because Sheary is a young, cost-controlled, proven 50 point winger and JVR is going to be a UFA at the end of next year.

But Bozak for a 2nd? That should be a no brainer yes.

How is Sheary proven? Agree with the rest

 

[Return of the Paek]

How in the world have the Pens not agreed to a K with Dumo? I think his market value is clearly between 3.7-4.1 aav, he's a shutdown D-man with almost non-existent offense. I think a demand or offer far outside the above range is simply disingenuous.

 

[Tender Rip]

I really think a deal with Calgary involving Hornqvist and Bennett makes sense for both parties.

For real?
I would never ever agree to that if I was a Calgary fan.

 

[PensandCaps]

Bennett for Hornqvist would be interesting. Do we take a chance and hope Bennett is not a bust? But we have many RWs to replace Hornqvist and Bennett is a Centre, a position of need. Also Calgary needs RWs, so Hornqvist makes sense, Seems like a risky and fair deal for both teams IMO.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Bennett is 21 years old. Not everyone is Jack Eichel. Despite underwhelming numbers they're not trading him for a year of Hornqvist. You already know this though.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

I love Hornqvist but I do that trade 10 out of 10 times. I'd probably even do it for Sprong.

 

[PensandCaps]

How is Sheary proven? Agree with the rest

53 points in 61 games with no 1st PP time, i'd say that's proven.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Bennett is 21 years old. Not everyone is Jack Eichel. Despite underwhelming numbers they're not trading him for a year of Hornqvist. You already know this though.

There have been rumblings surrounding Bennett, mainly because of their need for a RW, but also because they like Jankowski and added Lazar last season. And, Bennett is an RFA. So, just like with Sheary, a guy becomes a little more available when he is not signed. A LITTLE.

If we gave up a first in 2018 if Horny signed elsewhere, the deal might be worth it for both teams.

I love Hornqvist but I do that trade 10 out of 10 times. I'd probably even do it for Sprong.

Let's not get crazy. Sprong should not be traded.

 

[molon labe]

I highly doubt JR let Bonino walk for a reasonable contract so that we could acquire some run of the mill 3C. I want a young kid with potential to grow in such a role or someone capable of bringing us back to three scoring lines.

This is what my mind keeps drifting towards. We had an abundance of wings for the first time in many years, yet he let bones walk because...? 4M? We can't even be sure if that's an overpayment based on what he showed in the playoffs. My guess is JR has someone in mind and it's just taking some time to get him here - which again for me hints at Duchene.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

This is what my mind keeps drifting towards. We had an abundance of wings for the first time in many years, yet he let bones walk because...? 4M? We can't even be sure if that's an overpayment based on what he showed in the playoffs. My guess is JR has someone in mind and it's just taking some time to get him here - which again for me hints at Duchene.

If we split the difference and call Sheary + Dumoulin a combined $7 mil, that leaves us about what Bonino would've made in cap space, which wouldn't have worked. I think you need about a million bucks for injury call ups and such, so in a way Bones was never staying.

We could definitely find a Bonino-esque player for less money. Who that would be I don't know, but doesn't mean they're not out there. No one knew Bonino was at the time. If it's not a significant trade it'll be a ho-hum acquisition, which I think is much more likely.

 

[UnrealMachine]

53 points in 61 games with no 1st PP time, i'd say that's proven.

6 goals and 17 points in 45 playoff games on the highest scoring team in the playoffs over that time period also might prove something?

 

[molon labe]

If we split the difference and call Sheary + Dumoulin a combined $7 mil, that leaves us about what Bonino would've made in cap space, which wouldn't have worked. I think you need about a million bucks for injury call ups and such, so in a way Bones was never staying.

We could definitely find a Bonino-esque player for less money. Who that would be I don't know, but doesn't mean they're not out there. No one knew Bonino was at the time. If it's not a significant trade it'll be a ho-hum acquisition, which I think is much more likely.

That's fair. Don't you think JR would have done a "sign and trade" (eventually) for that price though if he didn't either A) Think the other FA's were gonna wipe the cap, or B) Had someone else in mind already?

I just find this situation odd because of the 4M pricetag. I was thinking bones was going to receive some 4.5-5M over term (and he probably had that offer somewhere, but he's the type of guy who had Nashville written all over him) - and that price I would have been happy letting him walk over. The 4M to me just seems like it could have been done and then reassessed later. The Duchene thinking is based on what both Sakic and JR have been saying to their respective pressers... JR says that he is FINE being patient and letting things play out, why would he phrase it that way? Sakic states he wants an under 25 defensemen and is in no rush to deal Duchene, but that the offers have not been good enough. To me it seems like they're playing F-F games with each other and the deal will get done.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

That's fair. Don't you think JR would have done a "sign and trade" (eventually) for that price though if he didn't either A) Think the other FA's were gonna wipe the cap, or B) Had someone else in mind already?

I just find this situation odd because of the 4M pricetag. I was thinking bones was going to receive some 4.5-5M over term (and he probably had that offer somewhere, but he's the type of guy who had Nashville written all over him) - and that price I would have been happy letting him walk over. The 4M to me just seems like it could have been done and then reassessed later. The Duchene thinking is based on what both Sakic and JR have been saying to their respective pressers... JR says that he is FINE being patient and letting things play out, why would he phrase it that way? Sakic states he wants an under 25 defensemen and is in no rush to deal Duchene, but that the offers have not been good enough. To me it seems like they're playing F-F games with each other and the deal will get done.

The first part I'm actually not sure what player you're referring to I'm assuming Bonino is who you mean. Are sign and trades really done though? It seems like a good way to embitter a player and generally send bad vibes about how you do business.

I thought the $4.1 mil was do-able as well. I think it was that fourth year though. Regardless the cap number I didn't have a problem with. Like we've talked about though, it wouldn't have fit, but I also didn't think they were going to sign a defenseman for nearly as much as Hunwick got. I'm still incredibly leery about that acquisition but it seems well-received overall. I'm not sure anyone would've had much to say about him before he signed here though.

I was expecting a cheapo defensemen of about $1.5 mil to play with Cole, and moving Schultz up with Maatta. I didn't think they were going to commit that much money to a player like that, so I figured Bones' salary would fit.

As far as what JR and Sakic say, let's just say I think that trying to piece together the truth from what GMs/coaches/players say to the media is a waste of time. I also think people have a tendency to think everything revolves around the Penguins. I don't see why other teams wouldn't be in on Duchene and have as good or better packages to offer.

 

[PensandCaps]

6 goals and 17 points in 45 playoff games on the highest scoring team in the playoffs over that time period also might prove something?

He got hurt in both playoff runs. So maybe that affected his performance.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

A sign-and-trade deal only really works in the NHL, under the current CBA, if a free agent is looking for an eight-year (max) deal and the other teams can only offer seven.

This was not the case with Bonino, and in fact nobody got a 7-year deal in UFA either. Nor did anyone get 6 years, and I think only 3 received 5-year-deals.

 

[CertifiedLurker]

6 goals and 17 points in 45 playoff games on the highest scoring team in the playoffs over that time period also might prove something?

I mean, there are a lot of good regular season players who can put up 50+ in the regular season and nowhere close to that production in the post-season. Playoffs are a whole other animal.

 

[Zero Pucks]

Bennett for Hornqvist would be interesting. Do we take a chance and hope Bennett is not a bust? But we have many RWs to replace Hornqvist and Bennett is a Centre, a position of need. Also Calgary needs RWs, so Hornqvist makes sense, Seems like a risky and fair deal for both teams IMO.

I really like Sam Bennett, not really sure he's the best fit as our 3C. But I'd rather do that instead of for trading whatever the hell Sakic wants for Duchene. But I think Hornqvist is valued too much as locker room presence for this team.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

This is what my mind keeps drifting towards. We had an abundance of wings for the first time in many years, yet he let bones walk because...? 4M? We can't even be sure if that's an overpayment based on what he showed in the playoffs. My guess is JR has someone in mind and it's just taking some time to get him here - which again for me hints at Duchene.

This is my thinking also and posted that on the Reaves thread. One thing you can say about JR is he does not just fill a need with a bandaid type approach. The examples I gave was when JR first got here he saw the team lacked a net front presence and toughness and he got one of the best in the game for that in Hornqvist. JR saw he needed to replace that shot of Neal on the Malkin line so he gets one of the best in Kessel. JR saw that Sullivan wanted to play a fast forechecking game when he took over as coach so he got the fastest skater in the game who is known as one of the best forcheckers. JR saw we had a need for a hard checking intimidating presence that could play a regular shift and he got the best in Reaves. I truely believe JR wanted Duchene or someone like him because he wants HBK type scoring and did not get that this year from Bonino. JR wants at least a 2C for that spot.

 

[exHornet]

He got hurt in both playoff runs. So maybe that affected his performance.

Maybe being really small contributed to him getting hurt. The playoffs are a different animal, compared to the regular season.

 

[Harvey Birdman]

Are you kidding? A 2nd is NOT more valuable than Bozak, what are you even talking about? I'm also not sure Sheary is more valuable than JVR AND a 1st, but that's at least a bit more arguable because Sheary is a young, cost-controlled, proven 50 point winger and JVR is going to be a UFA at the end of next year.

But Bozak for a 2nd? That should be a no brainer yes.

Proven? Sheary has not been in the NHL long enough to be proven, especially with the off season he just had.

He MAY not be very cost controlled for very long depending on his arbitration award. I could very much see Sheary being moved especially if his arbitration number is high.

 

[Shady Machine]

Maybe they already have the solution internally for 3rd C.

They don't. At least not anytime soon.