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I don't know why they'd even take Dumo to arbitration for $2.5M. I'd think they'd be all too happy to sign him long-term at that number.
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I don't know why they'd even take Dumo to arbitration for $2.5M. I'd think they'd be all too happy to sign him long-term at that number.
4m-ish in a long term deal for Dumo would make sense. 4m is about the max he can expect at arbitration. I'm slightly surprised they're going this route as Dumo's likely compensation is in a very narrow corridor and unless Rutherford's being real cheap, they're probably quibbling over not that much. I'd also be surprised if it actually reached arbitration.
No idea what happens next with Sheary save he's possibly made himself a little more likely to get traded.
No idea what happens next with Sheary save he's possibly made himself a little more likely to get traded.
Pick87your71Poison
Registered User
I assume long-term it would have to be a bit more, but I agree if they can offer him $3-$3.5mm (or even a bit more really) and get him to sign long-term they should just do that now.
Tasty Biscuits
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Gurglesons
Registered User
That's the risk from our end on arbitration. It is a one or two year deal max. Dump is then a UFA and cashes in like Alzner did.
Alzner is a great example, and it's his contract from 2013 which is great comparable, not his last one.
In summer 2013 Alzner signed 4 year contract
- AAV of 2.8M (4.35% of cap hit, recalculated for 75M cap: 3.25M)
- age 24
- 3 full seasons: 82 gp - 12 (2+10) pts, 82 - 17 (1+16), 48 - 5 (1+4)
- averaging 20:00, 20:52, 20:57 TOI per game
- 3 POs: 9 - 1, 14 - 2, 7 - 2
- averaging 22:44, 24:53, 22:18 TOI per game
Dumoulin has
- age 25
- two full seasons: 79 - 16 (0+16), 70 - 15 (1+14)
- averaging 18:53, 20:32 TOI per game
- 3 POs: 5 - 0, 24 - 8, 25 - 6
- averaging 14:06, 21:31, 21:59 TOI per game
Hard to see him getting more than 3.5 - 3.75M if you use Alzner as comparable. Even with his more than respectable PO scoring.
Shady Machine
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Shady Machine
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Really good stuff. If Pens and Dumo want a long term deal, then bring up the caphit to the 3.5 - 3.75MM range as you mentioned.
Paulie Gualtieri
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Pens only have 11MM in cap space, so it has to be 11
He was counting Schultz who has already signed.
Shady Machine
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molon labe
Registered User
How does Arbitration work in the NHL? Is it legal standing just like any court in the U.S. (i.e. every electronics user agreement we sign or divorce court)? I ask, because once the number is reached in Arbitration, does that mean it's a done deal, or can the team then say - that's your arb number, would you rather x salary over x years instead...?
Jag68Sid87
Sullivan gots to go!
I am intrigued by this JR quote. I wonder what he is up to re: a lesser FA. It could be someone like Stephane Da Costa, I suppose.
Maybe it has something to do with all those Dynamo Moscow players now released and available.
There really isn't much left on the UFA market at the center position. A shaky Brandon Pirri, a very marginal 4C in Jay McClement, an AHL-caliber Boyd Gordon et al.
I don't like Fiddler, but he is still available. Is Fisher retiring for sure? Does he want one final crack at the Cup? Does Carrie want to join the good guys?
Brooks Laich? Yuck.
Sheary at $4 million for one year, no more. I would not commit that kind of money to him, yet.
Dumoulin, give him $4 million-plus and lock him up for six years. Otherwise, package him if he does not want to work out a long-range deal.
I think JR was thinking about arbitration when he decided it would take time to find his 3C and 4C.
66-30-33
Registered User
I know it's not official, but $4M for Sheary better be short-term. I appreciate what he did last season, but he's had two lackluster playoffs so far, the second one was pretty horrible to be frank--especially through the first 3 rounds.
Dumo at $2.5M would be fantastic though.
Dumo at $2.5M would be fantastic though.
Even if it is short term I would still be hesitant to give it to him. He, at least to me, is not proven. How do we know if Crosby is just carrying him or not. Not convinced on the 4 mil price tag.. at least not yet..
radapex
Registered User
Since it's player-elected arbitration, the team has the choice of whether it'll be a one- or two-year deal.
radapex
Registered User
I don't recall, but I believe they have to decide before so that it can't be reactionary to the arbiter's verdict.
Goalie_Bob
1992 Vezina (2nd)
"Also determined when the briefs are exchanged: the side against whom arbitration was filed gets to elect a term of either one or two years for the potential award. In "player-elected salary arbitration," the team will decide on a one or two-year term for the award. In "club-elected salary arbitration," the player will decide."
So if Dumoulin and Sheary elect for salary arbitration then the Pens get to decide the length of the deal. But they have to do it before the hearing. The Pens, they could take a one year deal knowing that both would still be RFA next season and the Pens would still hold the right to take them to arbitration.
IMO, I think a deal with both will get done before the hearings. But if they don't, I would put in for two years for Dumoulin and one year for Sheary. I know people are scared of Dumoulin then going to FA after two years but the Pens can negotiate an extension next summer.
I think the comparables for Dumoulin put him at 2.75 to 3.25.
Sheary, I'm not really sure. Players like; Drouin (5.5), Gallagher (3.75), Couturier (4.33), Jannik Hansen (2.5), Tomas Hertl (3.0) , Jason Zucker (2.0) and Patrik Sharp (1.0), I think make sense as comparables. But that is a big gap.
IMO, Around Gallagher makes sense for arbitration, maybe a little less, Say 3.5mil. For a long term deal at this point I wouldn't do one. Sheary reminds me way too much of Robbie Brown. Stick him with a star and he produces, stick him on the 3rd line and he struggles.
Sheary at 4m in arb and Dumo at 4m long term would blow a big old hole in the 12m total goal for our 3 RFAs and leave us with fairly chump change for our 3C. I'm not saying its impossible we make it work but it seems likely someone gets traded in that position and, tbh, I wouldn't be surprised if Rutherford wouldn't rather have Dumo for a shorter period cheaper in such a scenario.
Sheary at 4m... I dunno, I'm listening pretty close to trade offers at that point.
Sheary at 4m... I dunno, I'm listening pretty close to trade offers at that point.
Interesting situation. I have to think we would want one year for Sheary, maybe both.
Jag68Sid87
Sullivan gots to go!
Sheary's comparison is probably Martin St. Louis, except that he plays like the Calgary version of St. Louis and the Tampa Bay version of St. Louis all in the same game!
If he is trying to price himself off the roster, I am sure JR would oblige.
The fact they both have the same agent is interesting. It could be that our management team and this agent group don't really get along as well as some others.
If he is trying to price himself off the roster, I am sure JR would oblige.
The fact they both have the same agent is interesting. It could be that our management team and this agent group don't really get along as well as some others.
Jag68Sid87
Sullivan gots to go!
I agree. Why not? Get them both back in the fold and then we can start making plans for centers.
Extra Texture
A new career
Count me as another one thinking "Dumo = 2.5M, Sheary = 4.0M" sounds like its flipped.
If we can pull that off.....that would be incredible. Leaves ~4.5M to retain Archibald and, potentially, go out and use that money. Toss a 2 year, 3M AAV deal to Vanek?
If we can pull that off.....that would be incredible. Leaves ~4.5M to retain Archibald and, potentially, go out and use that money. Toss a 2 year, 3M AAV deal to Vanek?
Paulie Gualtieri
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