Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building | Yeah, I got nuthin' ....

[SCPens]

You can't justify passing up on Bones if you are going to replace him with Sheahan. The difference in cap hit is negligible.

Ohhh what's that over there? Is it........a door?? Here, I'll open it for you.....

 

[PensandCaps]

Exactly.

Rowney I'm fine with, The Kuhn love around here has me bemused.

Kuhn is a young, little less craptacular Adams. This board, rightfully so, bemoaned Adams presence on the fourth line for years.

Now we have an alarming amount of people who want his doppelgänger on the team. Many who used to ***** about Adams. It's mind blowing to me.

"But da Kuhn help win a cup!"

Ya, well so did Adams, on two teams. Cmon now...



Give him a chance if it goes down, he's got a lot of desirable attributes the coaching staff can work with.

Seeing as Kuhn is alot better than Adams and his stats show That he produces at a 25 point clip per 82 games, this is one of the worst takes I've seen on here. Calling Kuhn, adams 2.0 ... Reaves is the one who produces like Adams. But hey ignore stats.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

It doesn't matter who we get. We can spitball all night and day about who we think will be a good fit, but if JR and Sully get together and target a guy, I'll defer judgement to them until proven otherwise.

Doesn't matter how long it takes as long as we get the right guy.

 

[Saints11]

The two big "If's" that seem to surround the Pens most recently are:

1. If they trade for Sheahan
and
2. If they sign Zaripov

What are the ramifications if both happen? In all likelihood, Sheahan would center the 3 line and Zaripov would play LW with Geno and Kessel. Then, how would those move affect the rest of the lines and depth forwards.

I believe Rust will play LW with his ND buddy Sheahan, along with Hornqvist, if healthy. Although they are best friends, I'm not sure Hags and Horny are the best of line mates. I realize that it would now give us a 4 million dollar LW on the 4th line, but if it plays out the way the league seems to want it, Hags will be logging increase time on the PK, along with Reeves.

If Horny isn't ready when the bell sounds; I assume Rust would return to his natural Right side and Wilson will slide in on the Left.

That said, I would expect Kuhnhackl to be moved by JR, even if it might be for a pick. Wilson and Archibald would be forwards 13/14. The next question would be does Rowney hold off McKegg for the 4th C spot?

 

[SCPens]

You haven't made a point so how much of a waste is that? Appeal to authority is a logical fallacy. At some point try to prove something. Saying you're frustrated doesn't mean anything. Saying JR said he wanted to and thought it was necessary doesn't mean anything.

How about we just won two cups with no enforcer. We won in 09 without an enforcer. Why would you want to change that?

And they provably provide no tangible benefit as per:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1935940-are-enforcers-still-valuable-to-nhl-teams

A bleacher report article is your evidence huh. Are you kidding me? What did you say earlier..."There's no evidence that enforcers actually deter anything or reduce the likelihood of a serious injury to a star, regardless of what 70 year old GMs and former enforcers think." Hmmmm, regardless of what 70 year old GMs and former enforcers think. So your opinion and a frickin bleacher report blog hold more water than that of a currently employed NHL GM (who just for s**** and giggles has won 3 Cups, 2 in the past 2 seasons) and former NHL enforcers (who have a much better chance of receiving an NHL pension than you do). Interesting. What EXACTLY is it that you want me to prove? Or does it even matter? Appeal to authority is a logical fallacy.......go away.

 

[billybudd]

Godard played 70 games in 2009.

 

[ColePens]

I sort of love our current roster and would rather see what the kids can do at first. As 90% of us have agreed already, the opening day roster doesn't ever match up with the Game 1 playoff roster. There are always things that change. Take HBK as the prime example from back to back Cup years. HBK stole the show in the 16 Cup run and were one of the worst lines in 2017. Guentzel and Wilson play a role in a Cup win in 2017.

I'm completely fine rolling with guys like McKegg or Johnson. Maybe give Blueger a couple games just to give him that NHL taste. Maybe we strike gold with one of them. Pens seem to be doing that quite often recently. These stories happen all around the league. Look at Derek Ryan last year. Two 23 year olds and a 25 year old. Let's give these kids some chances and see if we strike gold.

If it ends up sucking after 15-20 games, explore options.

 

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

I agree. Preferrably a 3C now and a Vegas guy later in the season. I'd love to go into the playoffs with:

Jake-Sid-Sheary
Hags-Geno-Kessel
Rust-Sheahan-Hornqvist
Sprong-Karlsson-Reaves

I get that Reaves is guaranteed to be in the lineup for most of the regular season, but come playoff time enough is enough. Dude is a total zero in the playoffs. One point in 36 games.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I just see no room for that Zaripov dude, honestly.

ZAR and Sprong are already banging the door down on the NHL. Where does this Zaripov dude fit?

59-87-43
17-71-81
62-X-72
23-X-75
45

 

[madinsomniac]

I sort of love our current roster and would rather see what the kids can do at first. As 90% of us have agreed already, the opening day roster doesn't ever match up with the Game 1 playoff roster. There are always things that change. Take HBK as the prime example from back to back Cup years. HBK stole the show in the 16 Cup run and were one of the worst lines in 2017. Guentzel and Wilson play a role in a Cup win in 2017.

I'm completely fine rolling with guys like McKegg or Johnson. Maybe give Blueger a couple games just to give him that NHL taste. Maybe we strike gold with one of them. Pens seem to be doing that quite often recently. These stories happen all around the league. Look at Derek Ryan last year. Two 23 year olds and a 25 year old. Let's give these kids some chances and see if we strike gold.

If it ends up sucking after 15-20 games, explore options.

Exactly... two years ago we were floundering through december, tweaked the roster big time, and won a cup... the idea that options won't be there later is patently untrue...

Not trying young guys in legit roles and bringing in no upside vets is how we stagnated for all that time under Bylsma...

You cannot in the cap era wait for a young guy to come along totally proven and ready before you try him out for a role and keep inserting overpaid established scrubs in there until someone forces your hand... give a few guys some games and see what they have....

At worse you find out what they must work on and what you really have waiting in the wings

 

[JTG]

Exactly.

Rowney I'm fine with, The Kuhn love around here has me bemused.

Kuhn is a young, little less craptacular Adams. This board, rightfully so, bemoaned Adams presence on the fourth line for years.

Now we have an alarming amount of people who want his doppelgänger on the team. Many who used to ***** about Adams. It's mind blowing to me.

"But da Kuhn help win a cup!"

Ya, well so did Adams, on two teams. Cmon now...



Give him a chance if it goes down, he's got a lot of desirable attributes the coaching staff can work with.

I just don't think Kuhnhackl has a tool box. He has a fantastic shot, and he can play with some jam to his game. I really expected him to steal a spot last season, and he never really did.

In regards to Sheahan, I see him the exact same way as Kuhnhackl. I'd love to bring Sheahan in here to play 4C and let him grow in that position.

My ideal for 3C that could actually be attainable is Haula, and for more than like unattainable would be Bozak.

 

[JTG]

I just see no room for that Zaripov dude, honestly.

ZAR and Sprong are already banging the door down on the NHL. Where does this Zaripov dude fit?

59-87-43
17-71-81
62-X-72
23-X-75
45

From what I have read, ZAR isn't knocking the door down this preseason.

I think the Zaripov thing would just be another failed European experiment. At his age, you don't come over here and learn a different style of game.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Seeing as Kuhn is alot better than Adams and his stats show That he produces at a 25 point clip per 82 games, this is one of the worst takes I've seen on here. Calling Kuhn, adams 2.0 ... Reaves is the one who produces like Adams. But hey ignore stats.

Apparently you are the one ignoring stats, because a young Adams put up 21 in 67 when the Canes won the cup.

Doh stats!

An offensively inept, poor skating player that is ass on the boards and his position on the team is justified because he kills penalties and blocks a ton of shots...

Adams 2.0.

At least Adams hit people though. Maybe he didn't get there when they still had the puck, but still, he at least inflicted some physical punishment on the opponent.

I just don't think Kuhnhackl has a tool box. He has a fantastic shot, and he can play with some jam to his game. I really expected him to steal a spot last season, and he never really did.

In regards to Sheahan, I see him the exact same way as Kuhnhackl. I'd love to bring Sheahan in here to play 4C and let him grow in that position.

My ideal for 3C that could actually be attainable is Haula, and for more than like unattainable would be Bozak.

Sheahan has a way better toolbox to work with than Kuhn.

It's not like Kuhn doesn't try, he's just a very limited player skating and skill wise.

I just trust the coaching staff to tap into Sheahan's tool box like Babcock did.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Excellent free article on Sheahan from the athletic. It's going to be really sad if he gets traded here with this situation.

Also reading the replies, it seems like Custance is buying the idea of Sheahan to Pittsburgh.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

They sent Sheary out to test chemistry?

Edit: Oof, that story.

 

[PensandCaps]

Apparently you are the one ignoring stats, because a young Adams put up 21 in 67 when the Canes won the cup.

Doh stats!

An offensively inept, poor skating player that is ass on the boards and his position on the team is justified because he kills penalties and blocks a ton of shots...

Adams 2.0.

At least Adams hit people though. Maybe he didn't get there when they still had the puck, but still, he at least inflicted some physical punishment on the opponent.



Sheahan has a way better toolbox to work with than Kuhn.

It's not like Kuhn doesn't try, he's just a very limited player skating and skill wise.

I just trust the coaching staff to tap into Sheahan's tool box like Babcock did.

Adams had 0 points in 25 playoff games with the canes that year

I'm basing off the Adams in Pittsburgh. Having watched both. It's not even close. Kuhn is one of the better 4th liners in the league. Adams was one of the worst players period in the league. I aslo fail to see how Kuhn is offensively inept....25 point pace is pretty good for a 4th liner And he has shown flashes of skill.

 

[SEALBound]

Excellent free article on Sheahan from the athletic. It's going to be really sad if he gets traded here with this situation.

Also reading the replies, it seems like Custance is buying the idea of Sheahan to Pittsburgh.

Whoa...damn. It's a...it's a little dusty in here today. Damn HVAC must be acting up. Better go check.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think the Zaripov thing would just be another failed European experiment. At his age, you don't come over here and learn a different style of game.

Why don't we find that out instead of just thinking it would fail? I really don't know why people are against bringing in Zaripov. Yeah, the Penguins have literally no need for him. They couldn't need a player less. But if Malkin thinks he can help the team, the organization likes him after they have done their research and Zaripov wants to come to Pittsburgh, why not? He's not going to be making much more than league minimum, especially if he's set on coming to Pittsburgh. I just honestly see it as a low risk, high reward move.

I'm concerned about how well he'd translate, especially if he's coming over after training camp and with little NA hockey experience, but that wouldn't be a reason for me not to try him out here. I really hope he signs here soon if he's going to sign with the Penguins, I would feel a lot more comfortable if he signs during the preseason. Luckily the Penguins still have like 2 weeks until the real games start.

 

[PensandCaps]

There is no downside to getting Zaripov. Maybe he clicks with malkin....maybe he doesn't. No biggy.

 

[Tender Rip]

Adams 2.0.

After his first two years in the league, Adams had 77 games as a 4th liner and exactly 2 points. 1 goal, 1 assist.
In Kuhn's first 99 games he has 31 points - and a further 7 in 35 playoff games.

Kuhn is a limited player, but it is ridiculous even comparing these guys' offensive potential in so far as Kuhn has a very good shot and Adams was about as inept a player at finishing as you could possibly think of.

This is to say that it won't mean much of anything to me if Kuhn is lost to waivers considering what we have, but let's not be crazy here.
He has much, much higher upside than Adams.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Adams had 0 points in 25 playoff games with the canes that year

I'm basing off the Adams in Pittsburgh. Having watched both. It's not even close. Kuhn is one of the better 4th liners in the league. Adams was one of the worst players period in the league. I aslo fail to see how Kuhn is offensively inept....25 point pace is pretty good for a 4th liner And he has shown flashes of skill.

One of the best fourth liners in the league? What the hell... what league are we talking about?

Adams had as many playoff points when the Pens won the cup in 09, as Kuhn did in 16.

The difference is Adams was 31 and well out of his prime.

At 34, Adams put up 18 points on the Pens, and he didn't play with Cullen like Kuhn did.

Kuhn is Adams, people just don't want to see it.

After his first two years in the league, Adams had 77 games as a 4th liner and exactly 2 points. 1 goal, 1 assist.
In Kuhn's first 99 games he has 31 points - and a further 7 in 35 playoff games.

Kuhn is a limited player, but it is ridiculous even comparing these guys' offensive potential in so far as Kuhn has a very good shot and Adams was about as inept a player at finishing as you could possibly think of.

This is to say that it won't mean much of anything to me if Kuhn is lost to waivers considering what we have, but let's not be crazy here.
He has much, much higher upside than Adams.

At the same age as Kuhn, Adams put up 18 points.

He also scored 21 in 67 two years later, which would have put him "on pace" to hit this magical 25 point benchmark for "good fourth liners".

Kuhn is a poor skater, his board play is atrocious, he doesn't hit, and he has below avg hands. He has a good shot, blocks shots well, and is good in the pk, which is exactly what kept Adams in this league.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I get that Reaves is guaranteed to be in the lineup for most of the regular season, but come playoff time enough is enough. Dude is a total zero in the playoffs. One point in 36 games.

One point in 36 games...with the St. Louis Blues.

That is important. We score more than the Blues do as a general rule, and probably even moreso in the postseason. If he had one point in 36 playoff games for the Pens, well then that is a different argument.

Let's give him a chance to see what he can do, shall we?

I just see no room for that Zaripov dude, honestly.

ZAR and Sprong are already banging the door down on the NHL. Where does this Zaripov dude fit?

59-87-43
17-71-81
62-X-72
23-X-75
45

Zaripov is a free asset. Just like signing Jagr (my preference) would be a free asset.

When you are a team looking to make a deal for a specific player (3C), and it is not a secret throughout the league, then the more free assets you can acquire the better. It will only help our chances of landing the right center.

One of the best fourth liners in the league? What the hell... what league are we talking about?

Adams had as many playoff points when the Pens won the cup in 09, as Kuhn did in 16.

The difference is Adams was 31 and well out of his prime.

At 34, Adams put up 18 points on the Pens, and he didn't play with Cullen like Kuhn did.

Kuhn is Adams, people just don't want to see it.



At the same age as Kuhn, Adams put up 18 points.

He also scored 21 in 67 two years later, which would have put him "on pace" to hit this magical 25 point benchmark for "good fourth liners".

Kuhn is a poor skater, his board play is atrocious, he doesn't hit, and he has below avg hands. He has a good shot, blocks shots well, and is good in the pk, which is exactly what kept Adams in this league.

While I agree that Kuhnhackl is limited in many areas, I think he is a fast skater for a fourth liner with size. Straightline speed is above-average, imo. You might be talking about his technique, which I really don't care too much about if you are a fourth liner and you can forecheck well.

I like Wilson far more than Kuhnhackl overall, but if the team needs a PKer when the season starts we could do worse than keep Kuhn.

 

[Tender Rip]

Kuhn is Adams, people just don't want to see it.



At the same age as Kuhn, Adams put up 18 points.

It's the classic case where you overstate a case and is too proud to climb down the three .

And no - it makes no sense to talk about Adams getting 18 points "at Kuhn's age". They had both turned 25 during their second seasons, and Kuhn will start his third season as a 25 year old now, just as Adams did.
You can compare their 3rd season numbers after this season if you want.
Until then my previously stated numbers are what you have to go on, and while Kuhn has delivered an acceptable output, Adams early production was atrocious. Almost statistical aberration territory for a forward.

Not a surprise though. The fact that he made the NHL speaks well of his desire and commitment because he had zero talent. Kuhn was an offensively gifted junior player (or at least a serious scorer with a big, big shot), who had to change his game as a pro because his skating won't let him be an offensive player. That much we agree on. Doesn't change that he has much more to his game offensively than Adams who had a few non-terrible production years in a career spanning 15+ seasons.

To even compare them offensively, you have to assume it's downhill from here for Kuhn despite him not even being a regular in the league yet due to our depth.

Again, it's not necessary for you to make this bizarre comparison to say that Sheehan might be a decent option for us (something I can agree with btw. - or something I'd at least consider a worthwhile roll of the dice).

 

[PensandCaps]

One of the best fourth liners in the league? What the hell... what league are we talking about?

Adams had as many playoff points when the Pens won the cup in 09, as Kuhn did in 16.

The difference is Adams was 31 and well out of his prime.

At 34, Adams put up 18 points on the Pens, and he didn't play with Cullen like Kuhn did.

Kuhn is Adams, people just don't want to see it.



At the same age as Kuhn, Adams put up 18 points.

He also scored 21 in 67 two years later, which would have put him "on pace" to hit this magical 25 point benchmark for "good fourth liners".

Kuhn is a poor skater, his board play is atrocious, he doesn't hit, and he has below avg hands. He has a good shot, blocks shots well, and is good in the pk, which is exactly what kept Adams in this league.

Didn't know Cullen was Sidney Crosby. So all of Kuhns stats don't count because he played with Matt Cullen? Atrocious board play? Its not great, but atrocious? It's absurd to call Kuhn, Adams 2.0.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think it's an exaggeration to say Kuhnhackl is Adams 2.0, in the same sense that saying Bonino and Sheahan are the same thing. Like they may play similar styles and do similar things, but Bonino and Kuhnhackl are clearly the better player and do those things better. I don't think Kuhnhackl is a poor skater, nor do I think his board work is atrocious. Those are exaggerations.