Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building | Countdown to Free Agency (Cap Details + Links in First Post)

[Dipsy Doodle]

1. It's a valuable option that we ought to keep unless another move, in total, makes sense, unless you see who plays left circle on the PP as the end all and be all.

2. For the record, I wouldn't be looking to add Skinner. This team is charmin soft without him.

Right. I just have a hard time imagining what that move would be. The PP is important, and we became better when that RH shot opened it up.

Sprong's value is in being a dirt cheap option who has the reasonable potential to replace some of what Kessel brings. Barring something remarkable, I wouldn't give that up.

 

[Burn]

Put him with Malkin and watch the fireworks. Most skilled players arent good at chip and chase like they wanted him to play.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

I followed. I was just saying UNLESS the RHS is firing off one-timers, it doesn't have to be a RHS in the left circle.

And, of course Phil added a different dimension . . . the only RHS we had before Phil in the left circle during the Sid/Geno era was Letang, no?

Guerin for a year and change. Having a RHS, especially Phil, offers more than one-timers. Pretty tough to QB a PP on the half wall from the off side.

 

[KIRK]

So who's like him? You made the claim and are now dancing around having to cite examples.

Sprong has a rare talent for scoring goals, and I sincerely doubt many teams have 2-4 players like that. Any who do likely value them considerably.

I'm not going to sit here on Sunday and go over every team's prospect pool.

I've asked people, the type of people who give me my understandings, why Sprong is in limbo. And, the answer I get is because teams see him as nothing special (i.e., not being worth a first rounder) and that teams have 2-4 forward prospects of equal (like) value in their organization.

I'll tell you what. I'll ask them to prove it.

Really Peeper, if you sincerely believe that Sprong is worth a 1st-- and THAT is the type of value you've assigned to him-- do you REALLY think JR wouldn't have played that card already?

EDIT: BTW, I love Sprong. I wanted to see him with Geno and Hags. I think he's getting screwed by Guerin and Sullivan. But, this isn't about what I think. It's about how other teams value a guy like Sprong when it comes to trade talks.

 

[Shaffer]

1. It's a valuable option that we ought to keep unless another move, in total, makes sense, unless you see who plays left circle on the PP as the end all and be all.

2. For the record, I wouldn't be looking to add Skinner. This team is charmin soft without him.

Trade Jarry + Sheary for Skinner
Sign Pouliot

Guentzel-Crosby-Hornqvist
Skinner-Malkin-Rust
Pouliot-Brassard-Kessel
ZAR-Sheahan-Sprong

How about that? Honestly, I think that lineup right there has enough “grit.” Our 2016 team has Kunitz, Hornqvist, and Fehr where that lineup has Pouliot, Hornqvist, and ZAR. Signing Jack Johnson makes up for losing Cole imo as well.

But then you run into the salary cap

 

[KIRK]

Right. I just have a hard time imagining what that move would be. The PP is important, and we became better when that RH shot opened it up.

Sprong's value is in being a dirt cheap option who has the reasonable potential to replace some of what Kessel brings. Barring something remarkable, I wouldn't give that up.

Go back to your original post. You said you can't give up Phil and Sprong. I said, in reply, UNLESS it's for a one-timer on the PP, I don't see why. That was it . . . and the red herring brigade went nuts.

 

[Shaffer]

I want to see Sid/Horny with the puck at the goalline and the other in front of the net on the PP more.

 

[AverageJoeFan]

Oh well, I doubt the Pens make a trade anyhow. Although, I have to say I was really hoping Hunwick to be gone.
@KIRK is there someone else you had in mind to trade for that would give us a bit more toughness and can score at wing that would involve Sprong? I thought you were referencing Skinner the whole time. My bad!

Sorry if I am asking too many questions.

 

[Ugene Magic]

1. A priority, not an absolute.
2. Is Phil now Mario?

RHS has to be absolute on the LW of a PP unit.


No. But he could learn a little from the guy about not being in so tight all the time and needing to try and one time with those floppy sticks.

Mario would collect and shoot in one motion. Kessel has done this before and has scored doing it. If it works do it more.

 

[Shaffer]

Go back to your original post. You said you can't give up Phil and Sprong. I said, in reply, UNLESS it's for a one-timer on the PP, I don't see why. That was it . . . and the red herring brigade went nuts.

I actually wonder how Schultz would do on the half wall. He’s got a pretty good one timer and he can actually put it on net.

Horny Sid

Schultz Malkin

Letang

 

[AverageJoeFan]

I want to see Sid/Horny with the puck at the goalline and the other in front of the net on the PP more.

There been references to why Sid and Horny aren't on the same line, but I am unsure why they aren't together. Do you know?

 

[KIRK]

Trade Jarry + Sheary for Skinner
Sign Pouliot

Guentzel-Crosby-Hornqvist
Skinner-Malkin-Rust
Pouliot-Brassard-Kessel
ZAR-Sheahan-Sprong

How about that? Honestly, I think that lineup right there has enough “grit.” Our 2016 team has Kunitz, Hornqvist, and Fehr where that lineup has Pouliot, Hornqvist, and ZAR. Signing Jack Johnson makes up for losing Cole imo as well.

But then you run into the salary cap

When your 3 grittiest players are . . .

HORNY







GENO







SID

. . . you're doing the mix of forwards wrong.

ZAR hits but is vanilla. Jake is scrappy. Sheahan occasionally does something really gritty, and then goes back into Nick Spalling mode.

EDIT: And I'm really not in the mood to watch Geno get killed centering a line with Skinner-Rust, which invariably will happen when he's forced to do the lion's share of work along the boards and in the corners and then be net front guy on sustained offensive zone time. Isn't it enough that it keeps happening with Phil? Only time he TRULY was healthy for a sustained period for the last three seasons was when it was with Hags-Horny or Hags-Rust.

 

[KIRK]

I actually wonder how Schultz would do on the half wall. He’s got a pretty good one timer and he can actually put it on net.

Horny Sid

Schultz Malkin

Letang

You had me until I saw who was on the point.

 

[Shady Machine]

Our team wins when they outscore the other team. There are the rare defensive lockdowns during our cup wins, but this team wins by possessing the puck, moving the puck up the board, and being in the other team’s zone.

Skinner is that type of player and we potentially are losing Hagelin and Brassard. We have money to lock him up long term. He makes us a better team, even if he is unnecessary. If you can bring in that type of player you do it.

Plus, no way is he not hungry for a cup.

There’s outshooting a team and than there is a potential top six of

Skinner - Crosby - Hornqvist
Guentzel - Malkin - Kessel

That is absolutely ridiculous and we can run potentially run it for more than one year.

I don’t disagree with that although I think you might have to have a garbage bottom 6 to keep them together past this upcoming season. What I object to is the idea that you should keep Sheary over Rust because defense doesn’t matter for wingers.

If you are comparing an elite offensive talent like a Kessel or even Skinner vs Rust totally agree but not Sheary vs Rust. Rust plays a more complete game, can be plugged into nearly any role, and produces about as well offensively as Sheary, even if Shearys upside is higher. That doesn’t mean you don’t trade Rust, but you better find a replacement for what he brings to the roster and Sheary ain’t it.

 

[Ugene Magic]

There been references to why Sid and Horny aren't on the same line, but I am unsure why they aren't together. Do you know?

There's a difference when on a PP and 5 on 5 with Sid and Hornqvist. Hornqvist tends to bury his head more often then not. He's not as savoy or has the hockey IQ at speed to keep up with Sid.

 

[KIRK]

Oh well, I doubt the Pens make a trade anyhow. Although, I have to say I was really hoping Hunwick to be gone.
@KIRK is there someone else you had in mind to trade for that would give us a bit more toughness and can score at wing that would involve Sprong? I thought you were referencing Skinner the whole time. My bad!

Sorry if I am asking too many questions.

No. I'll trust JR on that score.

And one other thing: When I say tough, I'm not saying add guys like Lucic or recreate the goon squads we had for a few years.

I want guys who can skate and play. They have to fit HOW the Pens play.

@Randy Butternubs mentioned Roussel. That's an example of the type of player we need to add.

We need someone with a little bite on D too. Cole the player was eminently replaceable. Cole the defenseman who would bring some nasty out there wasn't.

It's like when people talk about Wayne Simmonds, and some say 'well, we have Horny, why do we need him'. Well, how about because the closest guy we've got to Horny on the team now is Geno.

 

[Shady Machine]

Because Hagelin can't score, and if you can't score, no amount of defense matters. Sheary's crappy production is about on par with Rust over his playoff career. Hagelin has 1 goal and 4 points that wasn't an empty net goal in his last 25 playoff games.

It’s on par with Rust and Rust does a lot more to impact the game outside of production. So...

 

[AverageJoeFan]

No. I'll trust JR on that score.

And one other thing: When I say tough, I'm not saying add guys like Lucic or recreate the goon squads we had for a few years.

I want guys who can skate and play. They have to fit HOW the Pens play.

@Randy Butternubs mentioned Roussel. That's an example of the type of player we need to add.

We need someone with a little bite on D too. Cole the player was eminently replaceable. Cole the defenseman who would bring some nasty out there wasn't.

It's like when people talk about Wayne Simmonds, and some say 'well, we have Horny, why do we need him'. Well, how about because the closest guy we've got to Horny on the team now is Geno.

Why doesn't the management see this? I mean, even guys like myself who aren't hockey 365 think what you are saying is so very evident.

 

[KIRK]

There's a difference when on a PP and 5 on 5 with Sid and Hornqvist. Hornqvist tends to bury his head more often then not. He's not as savoy or has the hockey IQ at speed to keep up with Sid.

I really think the place for Horny at 5 on 5 would be with Brass.

Problem is, Horny probably is the least bad option for a RW for Sid. Sheary? That is maybe good for a few games at a time. Phil? Sid would rather play with Horny. Rust? The only place Rust looks BAD on the RW is with Sid (I never get why he doesn't play with Geno more as a RW, because those two are possession monsters when Rust is on the RW). Sprong? Yeah right . . . Smug Sully says HI.

 

[Shaffer]

You had me until I saw who was on the point.

Any other options though

I have expressed frustration towards Letang a lot, but I think we need him even strength. On the powerplay is, well, different.

 

[KIRK]

It’s on par with Rust and Rust does a lot more to impact the game outside of production. So...

Shady, Hagelin has 200% more GPG in the playoffs than Sheary the last two playoffs (NOT counting EN goals).

Rust has almost 500% more GPG in the playoffs than Sheary the last two playoffs.

Sheary doesn't even score as much as Rust (or Hagelin) in the playoffs AINEC.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I really think the place for Horny at 5 on 5 would be with Brass.

Problem is, Horny probably is the least bad option for a RW for Sid. Sheary? That is maybe good for a few games at a time. Phil? Sid would rather play with Horny. Rust? The only place Rust looks BAD on the RW is with Sid (I never get why he doesn't play with Geno more as a RW, because those two are possession monsters when Rust is on the RW). Sprong? Yeah right . . . Smug Sully says HI.

So all this means Sid will keep playing with a mixed bag. Not bad if Jake and him keep doing what they do.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I really don't get why so many Penguins fans are hellbent on diminishing Sprong's value. It's not so much on here as it is on other places. Sprong is a Kapanen level prospect, the only teams with 2-4 guys like Sprong are crappy teams that are picking high or rebuilding.

Sprong is a prospect on par with guys like Kapanen, Comtois, Kyrou and Lind. Sure, a lot of teams have prospects like that, but very few teams have a ton of Sprong caliber prospects and having a ton of Sprong caliber prospects doesn't make them low value. If a GM wouldn't trade a 1st for Sprong, I'd highly question their judgement.

 

[Shady Machine]

I didn't say otherwise, did I?

BUT, if you're guy in the left circle on the PP isn't taking one timers, then it isn't an absolute must that he's a right handed shooter.

That was the entirety of my reply to RRP.

It’s not an absolute must but it’s very preferable. Better shooting and passing angles.

 

[EXTRAS]

Any chance desmith usurp's the starting role this year?