Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building | Countdown to Free Agency (Cap Details + Links in First Post)

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I am almost as excited to see ZAR's full season as I am to see Sprong's. Both of those guys, if they find their comfort zone and fall into a groove at this level, could be supremely great for us moving forward. Different styles, but both bring pretty unique styles.

ZAR was varying degrees of bad in the playoffs, mostly awful, but he showed a lot at the end of the regular season. I'm hopeful, but sorta worried, that he can recover from the dirty hit from Wilson.

 

[KIRK]

So all this means Sid will keep playing with a mixed bag. Not bad if Jake and him keep doing what they do.

That's why I don't get Skinner. Not unless there's ANOTHER move, say with Minny, that involves Phil in exchange for a package including a RW better suited to play with Sid.

THEN, I could see Jake-Sid-NEW RW, Skinner-Geno-Rust (NOT a fan, but as a start, we'll see), and Hags-Brass-Horny.

You also could flip Rust and Horny OR Geno and Brass OR Skinner and Hags if Skinner-Geno-Rust asks too much of Geno in the dirty areas.

 

[KIRK]

Any chance desmith usurp's the starting role this year?

Sure

 

[CommissionerGordon]

Would anyone sign Carlson for say $8.75m and use Schultz, Jarry, and even Maatta to improve the forward position

 

[Ugene Magic]

That's why I don't get Skinner. Not unless there's ANOTHER move, say with Minny, that involves Phil in exchange for a package including a RW better suited to play with Sid.

THEN, I could see Jake-Sid-NEW RW, Skinner-Geno-Rust (NOT a fan, but as a start, we'll see), and Hags-Brass-Horny.

You also could flip Rust and Horny OR Geno and Brass OR Skinner and Hags if Skinner-Geno-Rust asks too much of Geno in the dirty areas.

See, I don't see it that way. I see it as a good/great center, a puck retriever and a scorer.

We're talking about trying to get back to 2016 when everyone emerged all together. They had more effect in speed and disruptive play than actually be a more heavy banging team. Even guys like Guenzel threw some big devastating hits. It really is simple as finishing your checks when they are there.

Edit: When the Pens tried to match that game it plays into the other teams plans.

 

[KIRK]

I am almost as excited to see ZAR's full season as I am to see Sprong's. Both of those guys, if they find their comfort zone and fall into a groove at this level, could be supremely great for us moving forward. Different styles, but both bring pretty unique styles.

ZAR was varying degrees of bad in the playoffs, mostly awful, but he showed a lot at the end of the regular season. I'm hopeful, but sorta worried, that he can recover from the dirty hit from Wilson.

ZAR showed A LOT of promise in his first 10 games. Got hurt.

When he came back, he SUCKED. 6 regular season games, 9 playoff games . . . and 1 assist.

 

[cheesedanish87]

I would think this is good news for the Pens.

I can't see him turning down the Pens.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I'm not going to sit here on Sunday and go over every team's prospect pool.

I've asked people, the type of people who give me my understandings, why Sprong is in limbo. And, the answer I get is because teams see him as nothing special (i.e., not being worth a first rounder) and that teams have 2-4 forward prospects of equal (like) value in their organization.

I'll tell you what. I'll ask them to prove it.

If they're that hard to find, maybe they're not so common despite what some people (even ones with understandings) may think.

Really Peeper, if you sincerely believe that Sprong is worth a 1st-- and THAT is the type of value you've assigned to him-- do you REALLY think JR wouldn't have played that card already?

TBH, how he's valued in the org doesn't affect my perspective much. The org thought Sheary and Kuhnhackl were worth playing over Sprong in the playoffs too.

EDIT: BTW, I love Sprong. I wanted to see him with Geno and Hags. I think he's getting screwed by Guerin and Sullivan. But, this isn't about what I think. It's about how other teams value a guy like Sprong when it comes to trade talks.

We're of a mind then. If we move both Sprong and Kessel without adding another RH shot who can make an impact on the PP, I'd say we made a considerable miscalculation, again barring something remarkable.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I am almost as excited to see ZAR's full season as I am to see Sprong's. Both of those guys, if they find their comfort zone and fall into a groove at this level, could be supremely great for us moving forward. Different styles, but both bring pretty unique styles.

ZAR was varying degrees of bad in the playoffs, mostly awful, but he showed a lot at the end of the regular season. I'm hopeful, but sorta worried, that he can recover from the dirty hit from Wilson.

ZAR looked pretty useless in a 4th line role for the Penguins, the. If ZAR is in the NHL next year, I really hope the Penguins use him the same way they use Sprong. Put him with offensive linemates in offensive situations, because he's basically Tom Kuhnhackl 2.0 on the 4th line.

On Carolina and Skinner, I don't think they'd want Sprong in exchange for Skinner. They're a team that has multiple Sprong caliber wing prospects already and adding Svechnikov basically eliminated any need for Sprong. I don't know if they'd be interested in Jarry, either. They probably want a more proven going goalie than Jarry. I think the easy solution would be to dangle the 2019 1st and let them make the rest of the package.

 

[KIRK]

See, I don't see it that way. I see it as a good/great center, a puck retriever and a scorer.

We're talking about trying to get back to 2016 when everyone emerged all together. They had more effect in speed and disruptive play than actually be a more heavy banging team. Even guys like Guenzel threw some big devastating hits. It really is simple as finishing your checks when they are there.

I get that. But, Geno plays his own style. I think you know that. It's not 100mph. It's more deliberate. He'll go on these god mode runs and then manage to kill himself because he's doing an inordinate amount of the dirty work for his line.

IF the speed that a Skinner-Geno-Rust line gives changes that, then fine.

IF it doesn't, then you can flip Hags and Skinner OR flip Rust and Horny OR flip Geno and Brass (where L3 is Hags-Brass-Horny).

IF that is what JR is thinking-- get Skinner, then flip Phil in a package including a RW fit for Sid-- then I get Skinner. Don't know how much I agree, but I get it.

 

[CommissionerGordon]

I’d like Duchene or Panarin to play with Malkin

 

[orby]

If the Pens are confident they could re-sign Skinner, I'd do Sheary and Sprong for him in a heartbeat. If they were to keep Sprong, they would be hoping every day that he ever develops into a player as good as Skinner.

To me, anything that gives the Pens the best chance to win in the next two to three years is priority one. Then start the sell-off/tank when Sid and Geno are both 35+ and declining.

 

[KIRK]

I’d like Duchene or Panarin to play with Malkin

I'd like Duchene for Sid's RW, Panarin on a line with Geno, and Mario to comeback in the best shape of his life.

 

[ColePens]

Would anyone sign Carlson for say $8.75m and use Schultz, Jarry, and even Maatta to improve the forward position

I dont want to get into a Carlson vs. Letang debate, but Carlson was my CS winner. He was so freaking good. I thought he was terrific.

Imo hes worth every penny to whatever team he gets signed to.

 

[Corvidae]

I would think this is good news for the Pens.

I can't see him turning down the Pens.

That's bad news for the Pens because they don't need him and shouldn't give up the assets likely required to get him.

If you looked at the team last year and thought they needed to go out and get a small skilled winger, we watched different teams. He's a good add for anyone in a vacuum but really not what the Pens should use cap space/assets on right now since they're very low on both.

If they could somehow move forwards for forwards without losing picks/prospects/D and balance the cap with enough room to address their needs on D, then I'm all for it. I just don't see that as being possible and no Carolina does not want Sheary and Hunwick.

 

[sovietsanta87]

I get that. But, Geno plays his own style. I think you know that. It's not 100mph. It's more deliberate. He'll go on these god mode runs and then manage to kill himself because he's doing an inordinate amount of the dirty work for his line.

IF the speed that a Skinner-Geno-Rust line gives changes that, then fine.

IF it doesn't, then you can flip Hags and Skinner OR flip Rust and Horny OR flip Geno and Brass (where L3 is Hags-Brass-Horny).

IF that is what JR is thinking-- get Skinner, then flip Phil in a package including a RW fit for Sid-- then I get Skinner. Don't know how much I agree, but I get it.

It's not so much the speed of Skinner that i would like it is his creativity and ability to use his skating to protect the puck. His skating is almost Crosby like in that he can keep a defender off balanced because he's able to use his edges in a way that doesnt seem humanly possible. With a Skinner-Malkin-Rust line you have two forwards that can use their skill to find space and the tip of the spear on the forecheck in rust.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

When your 3 grittiest players are . . .

HORNY







GENO







SID

. . . you're doing the mix of forwards wrong.

ZAR hits but is vanilla. Jake is scrappy. Sheahan occasionally does something really gritty, and then goes back into Nick Spalling mode.

EDIT: And I'm really not in the mood to watch Geno get killed centering a line with Skinner-Rust, which invariably will happen when he's forced to do the lion's share of work along the boards and in the corners and then be net front guy on sustained offensive zone time. Isn't it enough that it keeps happening with Phil? Only time he TRULY was healthy for a sustained period for the last three seasons was when it was with Hags-Horny or Hags-Rust.

That was essentially the mix for our consecutive Cup wins short of a withered, impotent Kunitz, wasn't it?

 

[sovietsanta87]

That's bad news for the Pens because they don't need him and shouldn't give up the assets likely required to get him.

If you looked at the team last year and thought they needed to go out and get a small skilled winger, we watched different teams. He's a good add for anyone in a vacuum but really not what the Pens should use cap space/assets on right now.

Jeff Skinner cutting out teams lowers his trade value. The canes dont want to let him walk and the pens can afford to be patient until Carolina accepts a more Penguins-friendly deal. Not saying it would cost significant assets, just that it may not cost as much as we think

 

[davemess]

Carlson isn't an option for us, we already have too much money committed to the current D group.

$8.75m might end up being too low. If he leaves the Caps I could see a deal close to the $10m mark from somebody.

 

[orby]

That's bad news for the Pens because they don't need him and shouldn't give up the assets likely required to get him.

If you looked at the team last year and thought they needed to go out and get a small skilled winger, we watched different teams. He's a good add for anyone in a vacuum but really not what the Pens should use cap space/assets on right now since they're very low on both.

If they could somehow move forwards for forwards without losing picks/prospects/D and balance the cap, then I'm all for it. I just don't see that as being possible and no Carolina does not want Sheary and Hunwick.

I do think their area of greatest need is on defense at the moment, but I don't really think losing Sheary - and/or Sprong, who may or may not even be an NHL regular this year - and replacing him in the lineup with Skinner can be construed as a bad move. That is, assuming the deal would revolve around Sheary+Sprong.

 

[Shady Machine]

When did I say it was 'nothing'.

Typical red herring HFBoards argument.

I say Sprong isn't a big deal to other teams, that others (not ALL others, just others) have 2-4 guys like him (like him, in the 'how highly touted' sense, not in the 'they play exactly like him' sense), and that there isn't a team in hockey that would give up a late 1st for Sprong.

I'll put it this way . . . IF there was another team in hockey that valued Sprong like some, including you, do, then JR would've traded Sprong last season.

Sure which is why the Pens shouldn’t move him unless it’s for an overpayment. The Pens need him.

 

[Empoleon8771]

That's bad news for the Pens because they don't need him and shouldn't give up the assets likely required to get him.

If you looked at the team last year and thought they needed to go out and get a small skilled winger, we watched different teams. He's a good add for anyone in a vacuum but really not what the Pens should use cap space/assets on right now since they're very low on both.

If they could somehow move forwards for forwards without losing picks/prospects/D and balance the cap with enough room to address their needs on D, then I'm all for it. I just don't see that as being possible and no Carolina does not want Sheary and Hunwick.

Having Guentzel, Kessel and Skinner on 3 separate lines for a year would be insane forward depth. You could run with:

Guentzel-Crosby-Hornqvist
Skinner-Malkin-Rust
Hagelin-Brassard-Kessel

That's an absurd top-9. It's soft, yes, but it's downright absurd.

I do think their area of greatest need is on defense at the moment, but I don't really think losing Sheary - and/or Sprong, who may or may not even be an NHL regular this year - and replacing him in the lineup with Skinner can be construed as a bad move. That is, assuming the deal would revolve around Sheary+Sprong.

Honestly, I'm not even sure how the Penguins could pull off Skinner. I think the only way is if they're not very high on Nedeljkovic and think Jarry can be a starter right now. Nedeljkovic is kinda weird, he hasn't been impressive in the pros at all (hasn't put up above a .903 save% in either the ECHL or AHL), but Canes fans are insistent that Jarry isn't an improvement on him. Jarry's not helping his case by having a pretty crappy 2017-2018 season overall, especially in the AHL.

 

[Andy99]

No. I'll trust JR on that score.

And one other thing: When I say tough, I'm not saying add guys like Lucic or recreate the goon squads we had for a few years.

I want guys who can skate and play. They have to fit HOW the Pens play.

@Randy Butternubs mentioned Roussel. That's an example of the type of player we need to add.

We need someone with a little bite on D too. Cole the player was eminently replaceable. Cole the defenseman who would bring some nasty out there wasn't.

It's like when people talk about Wayne Simmonds, and some say 'well, we have Horny, why do we need him'. Well, how about because the closest guy we've got to Horny on the team now is Geno.

I agree with this totally, that’s why I don’t understand the interest in Skinner that keeps popping up in the rumor mill...not only doesn’t he fit our budget, he’s another smaller, softer winger...we have enough scorers who have no jam....

I thought when JR was talking about “balance,” he meant pursuing a winger who fit our style and was tougher along the boards, and more physical...not just forwards but depth D too...

I don’t mind replacing Sheary with a better player but I don’t want to spend more money and assets on that person....and prevent us from improving our fourth line and getting someone with some jam....Kunitz circa 2011 is what this team ideally needs....

 

[davemess]

What kind of salary are you talking about to retain Jeff Skinner long term?

He is on $5,725m now. Guess it would likely go up from there but I don't know how far?

 

[Empoleon8771]

What kind of salary are you talking about to retain Jeff Skinner long term?

He is on $5,725m now. Guess it would likely go up from there but I don't know how far?

Probably between $6.5 million and $7 million, he'll likely be costing similar to Kessel long term. I also think it's worth noting that Skinner seems like he'll only waive his NMC for teams he wants to play at long term, which makes me think he'll also be coming with a long term extension. Although there's no guarantee that he shoots for as much money as Kane did, but I think $6.5 million is a fair guess.