Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building | Countdown to Free Agency (Cap Details + Links in First Post)

[Dipsy Doodle]

We have a very large sample size of Kuhnhackl sucking, so we do have that. We can see what kind of player Simon is, watching a larger sample size doesn't impact the kind of player he is. So basically that only applies to ZAR, who was horrendous on the 4th line last year after he came back from his injury. Yeah, that's not the kind of gamble I want to make on the 4th line.

He's proven to be terrible particularly when it matters, isn't getting any better at 39, and is regularly misused by this coaching staff.

The others at least have the prospect of doing better and being replaced if they aren't. None of them have the Teflon finish that would allow them to play on Crosby's wing despite scoring 1 ES point over half a season.

And if you want to bring up playoff production from last year, ZAR had 1 point in 9 games last playoffs. Simon had 3 points in 8 games, all of which came with Crosby. Kuhnhackl had 0 points. Rust, Sheahan and Hagelin all had 3 points.

Right, so every player mentioned save Kuhn was more productive than Kunitz despite being rookies, coming back from injury, and/or playing roughly half as many games.

That's an argument against Kuhn over Kunitz, and for everyone else over Kunitz.

I don't know why you're focusing so much on last year when ignoring 75% of the Penguins roster sucked with producing in the playoffs last year. You're saying no to Kunitz because he sucked in the playoffs last year, while ignoring that every other option the Penguins have also sucked in the playoffs last year. The only reason Kunitz is even being considered is that their options for the 4LW spot are so bad.

Because playoff depth scoring was a problem and you keep advocating for guys who were playoff abominations. Even Craig f***ing Adams had 2 points (a goal and an assist) in his last 13 game playoff run.

 

[Turin]

Can we admit that we don’t know if ZAR is a meaningful player? He tipped a handful of pucks into the net playing with Crosby.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Can we admit that we don’t know if ZAR is a meaningful player? He tipped a handful of pucks into the net playing with Crosby.

Which is why I'm confused for why people are so adamant about him being a better option than Kunitz for the 4th line. Kunitz is only being discussed on here because the other options the Pens have for the 4th line suck for one reason or another.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Can we admit that we don’t know if ZAR is a meaningful player? He tipped a handful of pucks into the net playing with Crosby.

Of course. But we ought to find out either way.

 

[Turin]

Which is why I'm confused for why people are so adamant about him being a better option than Kunitz for the 4th line. Kunitz is only being discussed on here because the other options the Pens have for the 4th line suck for one reason or another.

Kunitz has huge potential to really blow. Guy is almost 40 years old and has been hanging on for 4 years as his skills slip away more every year. There might be better options than ZAR, but there’s better options than Kunitz too. The only argument for him is making the core happy, and I think they will be happy with a great team at the end of the day.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Kunitz has huge potential to really blow. Guy is almost 40 years old and has been hanging on for 4 years as his skills slip away more every year. There might be better options than ZAR, but there’s better options than Kunitz too. The only argument for him is making the core happy, and I think they will be happy with a great team at the end of the day.

Oh yeah Kunitz does have huge potential to just absolutely suck, I think everyone realizes this. The problem is that "huge potential to suck" isn't any less risky than the alternatives, and the Penguins are pressed against the cap.

In an ideal world, you get a cheap guy coming off a down year that fills what you need, someone like Comeau in 2014. The problem is who fits that? All of the options I'm seeing suggested for gritty wingers are going to cost a pretty penny. Kunitz definitely has the potential to blow, but he also has the potential to be a steal for you if he's making near league minimum.

 

[Coach Travis]

If people want Jack Johnson so bad you could probably get Brooks Orpik at a discount. I'd steer clear of both.

 

[Gurglesons]

Of course. But we ought to find out either way.

I see no issue with letting ZAR play, but he’s waiver eligible and with very little roster movement I can easily see him being sent down if he continues to flat line like he did at the end of this season.

 

[Andy99]

So, the solution is to keep Sheary, and Rust who will be making 3 mil+ each?

I see no issue moving Sheary and Sprong for a player like Skinner who is likely better than what Sprong will ever be.

You don’t only need to move Phil. Maybe Murray is terrible this year and plummets his value.

Maybe you give Jake a two year bridge deal.

Maybe Oleksiak makes Maatta redundant at a cost controlled contract.

Maybe Jarry makes Murray redundant by winning two rounds in the playoffs.

If you can get Skinner you do it. Especially if is a minimal deal like Sheary and Sprong.

Huh?....no I’ve said repeatedly, they need to jettison Sheary and give Rust his contract...that’s only $3 mil...

They will have to make hard decisions bringing in another $6 mil + contract...Sprong shouldn’t be one of them...he should stay because if he’s solid, he’ll be cheap to play for the next 5 years...we have no one left from the farm system who’s now good enough to play in the nhl....we’d know more about what he’ll be if Sully had the foresight to play him a little more in the RS

You want to have a goaltender that’s worth a $6+ mil....that likely means he’s good...we need good goaltending...

Other than that I think they will have to trade Phil or Horny or Letang etc next year if they want to stay competitive...and that’s with or without Skinner...imo they need to start getting rid of over 30 regular players and keep it to a minimum of 4 or less....there’s a decent statistical argument that the Pens are too old right now to even win a Cup next year....

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I see no issue with letting ZAR play, but he’s waiver eligible and with very little roster movement I can easily see him being sent down if he continues to flat line like he did at the end of this season.

Which is totally fine. The problem with Kunitz is that he's proven he can stink for half-seasons at a time and not see a line demotion let alone a healthy scratch, which is virtually unfathomable.

 

[Gurglesons]

Huh?....no I’ve said repeatedly, they need to jettison Sheary and give Rust his contract...that’s only $3 mil...

They will have to make hard decisions bringing in another $6 mil + contract...Sprong shouldn’t be one of them...he should stay because if he’s solid, he’ll be cheap to play for the next 5 years...we have no one left from the farm system who’s now good enough to play in the nhl....we’d know more about what he’ll be if Sully had the foresight to play him a little more in the RS

You want to have a goaltender that’s worth a $6+ mil....that likely means he’s good...we need good goaltending...

Other than that I think they will have to trade Phil or Horny or Letang etc next year if they want to stay competitive...and that’s with or without Skinner...imo they need to start getting rid of over 30 regular players and keep it to a minimum of 4 or less....there’s a decent statistical argument that the Pens are too old right now to even win a Cup next year....

I just don’t see how your plan is bad asset management if we include moving Sprong and Sheary for Skinner. Especially if you plan on moving multiple players.

You’re asking a win now team to think about the future when they can acquire yet another 60 pt forward.

 

[Gurglesons]

Which is totally fine. The problem with Kunitz is that he's proven he can stink for half-seasons at a time and not see a line demotion let alone a healthy scratch, which is virtually unfathomable.

I dunno. I think Kunitz is a fine 4th line. At the same time we shouldn’t be retreding the past.

 

[Riptide]

I see no issue with letting ZAR play, but he’s waiver eligible and with very little roster movement I can easily see him being sent down if he continues to flat line like he did at the end of this season.

If he earns it in camp, sure. But I'd much rather sign a FA and force ZAR, Kuh and Simon to battle it out for that last spot. Even more so if Sheary is traded.

Guentzel - Crosby - Hornqvist
Hagelin - Malkin - Sprong/Kessel
Rust - Brassard - Sprong/Kessel
Sheary - Sheahan - XXXXX

 

[Gurglesons]

If he earns it in camp, sure. But I'd much rather sign a FA and force ZAR, Kuh and Simon to battle it out for that last spot. Even more so if Sheary is traded.

Guentzel - Crosby - Hornqvist
Hagelin - Malkin - Sprong/Kessel
Rust - Brassard - Sprong/Kessel
Sheary - Sheahan - XXXXX

I like..

Skinner - Crosby - Hornqvist
Guentzel - Malkin - Kessel / Rust
Hagelin - Brassard - Kessel / Rust
X - Sheahan - X

 

[Andy99]

I just don’t see how your plan is bad asset management if we include moving Sprong and Sheary for Skinner. Especially if you plan on moving multiple players.

Your asking a win now team to think about the future.

Well they have to think at least a couple years out if just for the cap. Even though they will need to move contracts, it’s easier said then done...look at how difficult trades have become...there’s no guarantee someone will want Kessel next year for his contract, or that we can get young players back. Or that we won’t have to take someone else’s crappy contract back....it makes signing Skinner very risky because the Pens will have less flexibility....it’s bad asset management to give up cheap Sprong for him...now if we could trade Phil and replace him with Skinner, even if that’s two separate trades, that would kill two birds with the same youknowwhat....

 

[Gurglesons]

Well they have to think at least a couple years out if just for the cap. Even though they will need to move contracts, it’s easier said then done...look at how difficult trades have become...there’s no guarantee someone will want Kessel next year for his contract, or that we can get young players back. Or that we won’t have to take someone else’s crappy contract back....it makes signing Skinner very risky because the Pens will have less flexibility....it’s bad asset management to give up cheap Sprong for him...now if we could trade Phil and replace him with Skinner, even if that’s two separate trades, that would kill two s with the same youknowwhat....

I mean, I get your argument. But Sprong could very easily bust too. It’s trading a prospect for an actual player.

 

[Turin]

I’d probably trade Sprong for Skinner. Sprong will never be a guy who keeps your team from being bad when Sid and Geno leave, so the age difference isn’t super relevant to me. Meanwhile Skinner is already a guy who almost scored 40 with Carolina. There’s an argument to be made that Sprong could be a better PP weapon though.

 

[Gurglesons]

I’d probably trade Sprong for Skinner. Sprong will never be a guy who keeps your team from being bad when Sid and Geno leave, so the age difference isn’t super relevant to me. Meanwhile Skinner is already a guy who almost scored 40 with Carolina. There’s an argument to be made that Sprong could be a better PP weapon though.

Crosby and Malkin will be PP beasts until they retire. Skinner’s abilities to create on his own are arguably better than Phil’s.

Not to mention no way is he not hungry for a cup after never playing in the playoffs.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I’d probably trade Sprong for Skinner. Sprong will never be a guy who keeps your team from being bad when Sid and Geno leave, so the age difference isn’t super relevant to me. Meanwhile Skinner is already a guy who almost scored 40 with Carolina. There’s an argument to be made that Sprong could be a better PP weapon though.

There's also the potential for Sprong to be a 20-25 goal scorer (or more) on a dirt cheap deal. We don't really have any of those guys once Guentzel makes bank.

 

[CertifiedLurker]

Crosby and Malkin will be PP beasts until they retire. Skinner’s abilities to create on his own are arguably better than Phil’s.

Not to mention no way is he not hungry for a cup after never playing in the playoffs.

I understand moving on from Phil, but please, this is just not true.

 

[Turin]

There's also the potential for Sprong to be a 20-25 goal scorer (or more) on a dirt cheap deal. We don't really have any of those guys once Guentzel makes bank.

True, but a lineup with Skinner replacing Sheary could be insane even without any huge value ELCs. JR would have to get creative with the Cap after the next year, but we already know Phil and Letang will be available.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Here's the issue with trading Sprong for Skinner: is Carolina even going to want Sprong in exchange for Skinner? They drafted Svechnikov 2 days ago, who's a goal scoring RW prospect. They also already have Aho and Teravainen as young 60+ point players in the NHL. They also have Zykov (33 goals in the AHL last year) and Foegele (28 Goals in the AHL last year), both of who are 22 year old NHL ready wingers. Saarela also had 25 goals in the AHL last year at age 21, although I think he's a center.

I really dont see why Sprong would make sense for them, he doesn't fill an organizational need at all.

 

[Gurglesons]

I understand moving on from Phil, but please, this is just not true.

No, it is 100% true. Phil is a better play maker, but Skinner’s ability to score in multiple ways is much better than Phil’s.

Skinner is easily a top ten LW over the last seven years.

 

[Turin]

Here's the issue with trading Sprong for Skinner: is Carolina even going to want Sprong in exchange for Skinner? They drafted Svechnikov 2 days ago, who's a goal scoring RW prospect. They also already have Aho and Teravainen as young 60+ point players in the NHL. They also have Zykov (33 goals in the AHL last year) and Foegele (28 Goals in the AHL last year), both of who are 22 year old NHL ready wingers. Saarela also had 25 goals in the AHL last year at age 21, although I think he's a center.

I really dont see why Sprong would make sense for them, he doesn't fill an organizational need at all.

They basically need to trade him from what I understand, so it’s less about what they need and more about getting the best value they can. Also he has a NMC so.. Carolina is gonna need to take what they can get. I’d rather deal Jarry too, trust me. Maybe that works, but I doubt it.

 

[Sideline]

So this makes me wonder if someone might up their offer on Karlsson.... or Letang.