Saginaw Spirit 2023-24 Season Thread (Part One)

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donjohnson

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Jan 29, 2013
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What's up with Nic Sima? Very low production from him. What line is he playing on? Big kid, great skater but...??
He's been scratched a lot lately...just a numbers game. When he's in the lineup and on the ice he skates harder than anyone and throws his body around. Selfishly I hope that he sticks around through the deadline because I think he'll be a great playoff guy (he was last year) with his willingness to do whatever but I also think he might be desired by another team as a piece of a trade.
 

Finster8

aka-Ant Hill Harry
Jan 18, 2015
1,801
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We will see soon

also you’re assuming that other teams were involved in those Windsor players.. it’s also just as true you simply just over paid. I’m not saying Saginaw did overpay but I also don’t agree with the idea you added two extra picks just to acquire them over other teams/don’t think you outbid anyone .. lol ( hence over spent comment )

I think Saginaw pays a premium as host , teams know this.
Picking up the 2 veterans from Windsor was just the start and a solid deal, IMO. Drinkill has moves coming up soon. 1 top D, trade Loukus and upgrade our OA, a few other options out there. The cupboards will be empty DD will get what he needs and this is a very good team as it stands. Easy to get picks back with a trade or 2. Hay, Parekh and Misa in his draft year in 25. Belluz is a gamble obviously but stranger things have happened. DD will do his best with Lazary and scouts to get some more deals done and provide the best product he can on the ice,
 
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TcNorth

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Jan 25, 2015
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To be fair getting traded out of flint is probably exactly what Gee and his family wanted for Christmas
This is probably true for a few of their players. I really like where we are at he Christmas break. Another tweak or two, and we cam make a great run at the Memorial Cup. Merry Christmas Spirit fans.
 
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Kingpin794

Smart A** In A Jersey
Apr 25, 2012
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Ok since everyone wants to throw out scenarios. This is would be my ideal scenario:

Beck, Mayer
For
Young, Glavin, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd

Loukus to Missy for 3rd, 5th

Jelsma
For
2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 2nd* 4th* (OA season conditions)

Chance this happens? Not likely. Think it’ll be a center and dman. But maybe not Beck at F. Drinkell does some trade no one sees coming.
 

Houndzfan20

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Oct 31, 2017
643
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Ok since everyone wants to throw out scenarios. This is would be my ideal scenario:

Beck, Mayer
For
Young, Glavin, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd

Loukus to Missy for 3rd, 5th

Jelsma
For
2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 2nd* 4th* (OA season conditions)

Chance this happens? Not likely. Think it’ll be a center and dman. But maybe not Beck at F. Drinkell does some trade no one sees coming.
Makes sense for you guys and would definitely make you guys much much stronger, but I'd think you're a few picks short on the Beck deal. Mayer is probably the best 03 dman available (arguably), and if schmitd went for a 2nd and 3rd, he'd probably be worth more. I'd add another 2nd, and either another 3rd or 2 4ths to that trade.

Should be an interesting deadline! We seem to both be in the market for the same type of players haha.
 
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HockeyPops

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Do you think Loukus would fetch that kind of return? That is the same that Connor Lockhart went for.
 

Kingpin794

Smart A** In A Jersey
Apr 25, 2012
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Makes sense for you guys and would definitely make you guys much much stronger, but I'd think you're a few picks short on the Beck deal. Mayer is probably the best 03 dman available (arguably), and if schmitd went for a 2nd and 3rd, he'd probably be worth more. I'd add another 2nd, and either another 3rd or 2 4ths to that trade.

Should be an interesting deadline! We seem to both be in the market for the same type of players haha.
Yeah I agree I was probably a pick or two short on the first deal. Would still be doable. Unlikely but doable.

Do you think Loukus would fetch that kind of return? That is the same that Connor Lockhart went for.
I mean he’s got two 50 point seasons. Would add experience to a Missy team that needs it. Plus I don’t think there are great OA forward options outside of Peer. I might be forgetting someone. Lockhart was obviously dealt for well under his value. Don’t think that sets the price. Just means another GM screwed up.
 

Kingpin794

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I will add on the more conspiratorially side, Mancini wasn't featured in hardly any media before he was dealt. Wasn't really used on the behind the scenes show, promotional stuff etc. Think they knew maybe that they wanted to use him in a trade? Loukus has been featured in the Spirit Rising show. Maybe they plan on keeping him. Idk. Tinfoil at best.
 

Fischhaber

Registered User
Sep 3, 2014
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Ok since everyone wants to throw out scenarios. This is would be my ideal scenario:

Beck, Mayer
For
Young, Glavin, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd

Loukus to Missy for 3rd, 5th

Jelsma
For
2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 2nd* 4th* (OA season conditions)

Chance this happens? Not likely. Think it’ll be a center and dman. But maybe not Beck at F. Drinkell does some trade no one sees coming.
The Jelsma trade seems somewhat realistic and a nice fit with the Spirit. Good call.

I think if you upgrade on Loukus then he probably just plays out the string on a non contender for minimal return. That's the way these things usually go, unfortunately.

I don't think the return in the first trade is enough for Beck, let alone Beck and Mayer. I'm not sure if the Spirit have the young talent to pull off a deal like that.
 
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dirty12

Registered User
Mar 6, 2015
10,295
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Ok since everyone wants to throw out scenarios. This is would be my ideal scenario:

Beck, Mayer
For
Young, Glavin, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd

Loukus to Missy for 3rd, 5th

Jelsma
For
2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 2nd* 4th* (OA season conditions)

Chance this happens? Not likely. Think it’ll be a center and dman. But maybe not Beck at F. Drinkell does some trade no one sees coming.
I think Jelsma and Bodoin are OAs for Barrie next season.

If unsuccesful getting Beck & Mayer or Ludwinski; and Niagara is selling a bit, Bryant and Federkow would be a nice consolation.
 

Knownothing

Registered User
Nov 1, 2022
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531
I don’t think they were out bidding anyone on those two either. Never said they were bidding against anyone on that particular deal. I think we underpaid. Christopolus was worth a 2nd and 3rd. So was Dionicio. Windsor should have been asking for more picks in that deal.
Well said. As a Spits fan, I’m miffed by this trade. Taking back older players to water down the picks is a major fail by Windsor GM.
 

hockeylegend11

Registered User
Sep 11, 2010
16,043
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Well said. As a Spits fan, I’m miffed by this trade. Taking back older players to water down the picks is a major fail by Windsor GM.
How is getting 2 -2nds,1-4th watering down when u consider Lockhart who had 79 pts last year in Peterborough, Christopoulis had 74 btw in 2 more games played and all Peterborough got was a 3rd in 25 and a 5th in 27,Windsor got their picks in 24,25,26 big difference.
 
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Hickory Stick

Registered User
Nov 3, 2023
16
25
Ok since everyone wants to throw out scenarios. This is would be my ideal scenario:

Beck, Mayer
For
Young, Glavin, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd

Loukus to Missy for 3rd, 5th

Jelsma
For
2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 2nd* 4th* (OA season conditions)

Chance this happens? Not likely. Think it’ll be a center and dman. But maybe not Beck at F. Drinkell does some trade no one sees coming.
First, I don't think you are going to get Beck and Mayer for Young/Glavin and those picks. I know everybody and their sister wants Beck but I don't think scoring goals is the problem especially in the Spirit system and I know everyone wants in on him but at what price? You are giving up 2 young players and picks for a player who won't be on the team next year. The Spirit is already considered an older age team and will lose many of it's current players next year and will have nothing to trade or draft for next year. I get trying to go all in this year but what happens to Misa next year (draft year) when he has nobody to play with? We can get into speculation that next year the Spirit will trade the best player in the OHL for a boat load of picks/players for another time.

If you want to add Beck you are better off moving another forward with more value versus two young players and all those picks. The Spirit have 4 forwards with 12+ goals and 2 Def with 12+ goals and 8 players with over 17 assists. Beck has 16 goals/14 assists wih a -2 +/-. His 8 goals and 8 assists in the playoffs is added value but he was also -5. I get he is not on a good team this year and this my long way of saying that I don't think we need additional offensive help. Saginaw has some guys that can score but with our system our third and fourth lines barely play the second half of the 2nd period and even less in the 3rd so the opportunities are limited.

Unfortunately the players I feel need another change of scenery and are a liability for a championship run probably won't bring much. So far the Hay trade has been a bust and feel violated considered what we gave up (11 points since arriving and -3). -10 on the season. Last year 28 points and -11. Lincoln Moore brings some toughness which I like but the #1 overall pick has 7 points and is a -8. James Guo has not done well in Saginaw and may need a change of scenery because he has failed in the Saginaw system. He is the only Defensive player on the wrong side of the +/- sitting at -5 with 0 goals and 2 assists. If we can get anything for Loukus that would be an option but somehow we need to focus on getting another solid defenseman without trading away Glavin or Young (both have NTC they would need to waive).
 

Kingpin794

Smart A** In A Jersey
Apr 25, 2012
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First, I don't think you are going to get Beck and Mayer for Young/Glavin and those picks. I know everybody and their sister wants Beck but I don't think scoring goals is the problem especially in the Spirit system and I know everyone wants in on him but at what price? You are giving up 2 young players and picks for a player who won't be on the team next year. The Spirit is already considered an older age team and will lose many of it's current players next year and will have nothing to trade or draft for next year. I get trying to go all in this year but what happens to Misa next year (draft year) when he has nobody to play with? We can get into speculation that next year the Spirit will trade the best player in the OHL for a boat load of picks/players for another time.

If you want to add Beck you are better off moving another forward with more value versus two young players and all those picks. The Spirit have 4 forwards with 12+ goals and 2 Def with 12+ goals and 8 players with over 17 assists. Beck has 16 goals/14 assists wih a -2 +/-. His 8 goals and 8 assists in the playoffs is added value but he was also -5. I get he is not on a good team this year and this my long way of saying that I don't think we need additional offensive help. Saginaw has some guys that can score but with our system our third and fourth lines barely play the second half of the 2nd period and even less in the 3rd so the opportunities are limited.

Unfortunately the players I feel need another change of scenery and are a liability for a championship run probably won't bring much. So far the Hay trade has been a bust and feel violated considered what we gave up (11 points since arriving and -3). -10 on the season. Last year 28 points and -11. Lincoln Moore brings some toughness which I like but the #1 overall pick has 7 points and is a -8. James Guo has not done well in Saginaw and may need a change of scenery because he has failed in the Saginaw system. He is the only Defensive player on the wrong side of the +/- sitting at -5 with 0 goals and 2 assists. If we can get anything for Loukus that would be an option but somehow we need to focus on getting another solid defenseman without trading away Glavin or Young (both have NTC they would need to waive).
If you want to deal for anyone of substance, you'll have to deal the young players. it's fine. We have guys coming up and in the system. I'm not worried about replacing them in the long run. We still have a fairly solid top six going into next year even if we move Young. Misa, Willis, Mangone, Hay, Gervais (underappreciated), Import. We'll be fine. Pay up and get the players we need.
 

Hickory Stick

Registered User
Nov 3, 2023
16
25
If you want to deal for anyone of substance, you'll have to deal the young players. it's fine. We have guys coming up and in the system. I'm not worried about replacing them in the long run. We still have a fairly solid top six going into next year even if we move Young. Misa, Willis, Mangone, Hay, Gervais (underappreciated), Import. We'll be fine. Pay up and get the players we need.
Good points (agree to disagree on Hay but hope I am wrong). I am all in for paying to get the players we need and our opinions on what we need are probably a lot different than the people who make the decisions. It took a long time for me to get to my point which was I don't think we need Beck at such a steep price based on our current offensive production and that our resources should be directed towards adding a top 4 defenseman. I personally don't like trading first year players because of the emotional impact it can have on them and I like to see the development part of young players but also realize that this is a business. Been on both sides and each comes with its own challenges and hurdles. It will be interesting to see how the NTC comes into play. I know how the team will handle it if they don't waive it but just another thing for them to work through.
 

frontsfan67

Registered User
Dec 3, 2022
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If you want to deal for anyone of substance, you'll have to deal the young players. it's fine. We have guys coming up and in the system. I'm not worried about replacing them in the long run. We still have a fairly solid top six going into next year even if we move Young. Misa, Willis, Mangone, Hay, Gervais (underappreciated), Import. We'll be fine. Pay up and get the players we need.
100% if you’re hosting the memorial cup you have to ice a team for it. The host always goes all in. Who cares about next year or the year before.

Worst comes to worst next year you have to trade a couple guys like parekh/Willis, mangone or hay to some teams that’s fine you’ll be good in the long run. And if you don’t do a light sell next year that’s probably fine too as you’ll still have a really good competitive team (but 2026, year after misa and the guys graduate you’d suck so keep that in mind if no trades are made next year)
 

OMG67

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Sep 1, 2013
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I’m not shocked by that but I really thought Saginaw would make a series of super savvy moves. I was wrong.
 
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