Speculation: Sabres Roster Speculation - Pre-season 2023 Edition

[thewookie1]

I hashed out a deal with a Vegas fan on CapFriendly for Martinez

Martinez for a 24 4th that can become a 24 3rd if he plays 50 games and a 23 6th.

I also proposed, with mixed results, Jokiharju for Tanev straight up.

Muel-Dahlin
Power-Tanev
Martinez-Bush
Stillman

It’s a nice balance of seasoned vets with playoff experience, young upcoming stars and Stillman would get probably 40 games with Muel and Tanev’s injury issues historically. Depending on how Tanev feels, give him a 2 year extension.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Any non-rental precedent on this? A top 4 D who has some term and isn't ancient should cost assets from the bottom of your list. UFA-to-be Matt Roy apparently costs more than two 2nds if you ask Kings fans, so it will either be quantity or quality (and we have more than enough of both to make a deal).

If it's for Matt Roy (or Borgen, or your favorite RHD trade target), anything from the bottom half of that list is in play. That's just for 2nd tier guys in their prime. KA is probably willing to pay that type of price. I just wish one of these teams can find it worth a deal.

 

[NotABadPeriod]

Calgary IMO is the team to watch. If Chris Tanev becomes available, that would be a great target. Good veteran mentor, defensive D, went to RIT so no stranger to this general area and maybe would accept a trade here (or not put Buffalo on his limited NTC?). Sure, he'll be hurt for 25% of the season, but the other 75% will be worth it.

 

[MOGlLNY]

you don’t throw away your 1st round picks/ 1st round drsfted prospects



Yes a good enough D who can play with Power can be gotten without giving up the top 10 prospects

top 10 include
Savoie
23 1st
Kulich
Rosen
Johnson
Ostlund
PHL 2nd
G prospect drafted in 22 2nd round
add 2 from Rochester roster



Jokiharju is a top 4 Dman with the right partner and used properly.

Gonna be honest man I scroll right by your trade related posts because of how cheap you are in them. Doing the same here

 

[TommyDangles]

TB makes a ton of moves. What did they win?

Also the middle paragraph was exactly my point. The fact that you thought it was pointless shows how poorly you’ve thought out this position.

Why are you conflating just making a move with being bold? Do you know the difference between being bold and upgrading your team? Why did you go from being bold to just making moves now?

Not being a playoff team and trading your 1sts + prospects is being bold. That's what Ottawa did. Being a great team and trading your late 1sts isn't being bold. That's what Tampa did. What every contender does. They didn't actually make a big trade until they were established as a playoff team.

"The fact that you thought it was pointless shows how poorly you’ve thought out this position." Take your own advice.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

Why are you conflating just making a move with being bold? Do you know the difference between being bold and upgrading your team? Why did you go from being bold to just making moves now?

Not being a playoff team and trading your 1sts + prospects is being bold. That's what Ottawa did. Being a great team and trading your late 1sts isn't being bold. That's what Tampa did. What every contender does. They didn't actually make a big trade until they were established as a playoff team.

"The fact that you thought it was pointless shows how poorly you’ve thought out this position." Take your own advice.

I’ve come to a point where I don’t even think you know what being bold is. You just know you’re right and you’ll keep moving the goalposts wherever you need to keep that illusion alive. Like if I said Tampa Bay traded a 3oa pick, or if I said Boston traded a 2oa pick, or when Tampa traded the reigning GAA leader and first vezina finalist, maybe the kings trading a 5oa pick, you’d come back with… maybe they aren’t high enough upside when traded?

Btw that’s what I meant by think it through, instead of coming back with lol late first doesn’t count (which wtf? Trading Kulich wouldn’t be bold because he was drafted at 28?) maybe think through who I might have been referring to (or you know that Kulich was taken at a pick that you don’t consider bold, which that really seems like a miss since he’s basically the player this started with).

 

[TehDoak]

Being bold is how you end up as the Sens. No 1st rounders, bloated cap, and still no playoffs. The Summer of Dorion baby. This isn't NHL 23. Just throwing assets around isn't guaranteed to make your team better.

I'm amazed that people think trading for 1 or 2 players is going to magically turn us into a cup contender overnight.

We aren’t 1-2 players away from contention. We are 3-4 players away from being a consistent playoff team. My point was that plenty of teams have won with a young core, their team simply was aggressive.

And for the record, we are likely well behind the sens once their roster is healthy. Only reason we finished ahead of them this year was their lost key pieces due to injury.

 

[Matt Ress]

I don't think Adams is afraid to go big to fill roster holes but he's also not going to overspend.

If he goes out and gets a late 20's early 30's #4 4-5M defensive defenseman, it won't be expensive. If he goes after a younger guy with maybe more offensive upside, it will be more costly. He'll get value one way or another and I believe he'll upgrade in spite of his end of season comments.

 

[KrakenSabresMike]

We aren’t 1-2 players away from contention. We are 3-4 players away from being a consistent playoff team. My point was that plenty of teams have won with a young core, their team simply was aggressive.

And for the record, we are likely well behind the sens once their roster is healthy. Only reason we finished ahead of them this year was their lost key pieces due to injury.

Sens do not have the quality depth or assets we have - can chychrun actually stay health? Will Debrincat even sign there long term or be traded again? I don’t think that “the only reason we were behind them” because of injuries, and they will
For sure be better than us this year is true at all…

 

[HOOats]

We aren’t 1-2 players away from contention. We are 3-4 players away from being a consistent playoff team. My point was that plenty of teams have won with a young core, their team simply was aggressive.

And for the record, we are likely well behind the sens once their roster is healthy. Only reason we finished ahead of them this year was their lost key pieces due to injury.

1-2 points from a playoff spot this year, then 3-4 players from a "consistent playoff team" moving forward. That's some fuzzy math right there.

 

[TehDoak]

Sens do not have the quality depth or assets we have - can chychrun actually stay health? Will Debrincat even sign there long term or be traded again? I don’t think that “the only reason we were behind them” because of injuries, and they will
For sure be better than us this year is true at all…

Eh, their top 6 F group is better than ours when healthy. Their top 4 D is on par with ours (I'll take Dahlin over Chabot, but I'll take Zub/Chrychrun over Samuelsson/whoever, and Power/Sanderson is a push for now). We have better forward depth after that, but that isn't difficult to overcome. We have better future assets? Sure.

They have options to improve their team and likely new owners.

Buffalo could easily leave them in the dust if they choose to spend and use assets to improve the team. I just doubt that is happening given the track record of our front office and the comments.

It's all academic for now, I just would guess that Ottawa is going to aggressive again and Buffalo will be passive again based on the comments from the respective front offices. But that is just a guess.

 

[TehDoak]

1-2 points from a playoff spot this year, then 3-4 players from a "consistent playoff team" moving forward. That's some fuzzy math right there.

By a consistent playoff team, meaning a team that will consistently finish in the top 8. A team when things work, they are a 100-110 point team, when things break a bit, still a 95+ point team.

We overachieved. We were a negative goal differential team who was notoriously streaky and bad in close games. Our top 6 scorers all had career years. 7 if you could a career high in goals from Olofsson. That is unlikely to happen again.

We had no major long term injuries. That is unlikely to happen again.

We have a good offense. We have a skilled defense. We are not good at defending. Our goaltending is either not good or very inexperienced. We can't put together 1 good PK unit on our current roster.

We had everything break right for us this year and we finished with 91 points, a big thanks to a late push after we were essentially eliminated with 6 games left.

We are in a big puddle of average teams after the top 7 teams (Carolina, NYR, NJ, Toronto, Boston, TB, Florida). We will see how this offseason goes, but it feels like there is 1 spot up for grab between NYI, Buffalo, Ottawa, Pittsburgh, and maybe Washington/Detroit/Columbus, depending on how things shake out this summer.

 

[Ace]

I just need someone to explain to me how being 3-4 players away is a reason to never acquire the first player

 

[Der Jaeger]

I don't see the fit at all from Pittsburgh's perspective.

I do. Whoever the new GM that comes in is going to have to add in to a pretty set group that needs better support.

Pens have most of their top 6 set, but Zucker is leaving. The Mike Sullivan top 6 winger MO is smaller and fast, and can score.

Pens have 4 RHD that can play in the NHL (Petry, Letang, Rutta, and Ruhwedel).

The new GM has around $20M in cap space to make so big moves to support the Pens big 3 on what’s likely their last run. Moving an excess D for a winger like Olofsson makes sense in that light.

Petry might not be the right target. Rutta might be the right guy. He was bad in Pittsburgh last year, but he’s not that old and had some good years in Tampa riding shotgun with Sergachev and Hedman.

I’d take either for Olofsson at 50%. I’d think the new GM for the Pens would think about Petry and pull the trigger on Rutta.

 

[Chainshot]

I do. Whoever the new GM that comes in is going to have to add in to a pretty set group that needs better support.

Pens have most of their top 6 set, but Zucker is leaving. The Mike Sullivan top 6 winger MO is smaller and fast, and can score.

Pens have 4 RHD that can play in the NHL (Petry, Letang, Rutta, and Ruhwedel).

The new GM has around $20M in cap space to make so big moves to support the Pens big 3 on what’s likely their last run. Moving an excess D for a winger like Olofsson makes sense in that light.

Petry might not be the right target. Rutta might be the right guy. He was bad in Pittsburgh last year, but he’s not that old and had some good years in Tampa riding shotgun with Sergachev and Hedman.

I’d take either for Olofsson at 50%. I’d think the new GM for the Pens would think about Petry and pull the trigger on Rutta.

After his first few weeks to settle in, Petry was probably the Penguins best or second best defenseman. If the new GM is as analytically driven and economically aware, the value to replace what Petry brings would be difficult for the Pens to replace. I don't think Olofsson is a lever to move Petry out of the Pens lineup vs. the value he provides to the 'guins.

 

[KrakenSabresMike]

Eh, their top 6 F group is better than ours when healthy. Their top 4 D is on par with ours (I'll take Dahlin over Chabot, but I'll take Zub/Chrychrun over Samuelsson/whoever, and Power/Sanderson is a push for now). We have better forward depth after that, but that isn't difficult to overcome. We have better future assets? Sure.

They have options to improve their team and likely new owners.

Buffalo could easily leave them in the dust if they choose to spend and use assets to improve the team. I just doubt that is happening given the track record of our front office and the comments.

It's all academic for now, I just would guess that Ottawa is going to aggressive again and Buffalo will be passive again based on the comments from the respective front offices. But that is just a guess.

Whats ottawa's ammunition to be aggressive? They don't have picks to sell and most of their prospects are already on the team that are A grade. They can sell Debrincat but then aren't they breaking even with whatever they get back and not pushing ahead? They have the same cap space as us with no debrincat signed and no goalies + brannstrom to sign. SO cap is not in their favor either...And they only have 11 players under contract and need to fill a roster. Much less flexible than the sabres with the same cap space and 21 players under contract. Think you are wrong on this argument....

 

[Matt Ress]

Eh, their top 6 F group is better than ours when healthy. Their top 4 D is on par with ours (I'll take Dahlin over Chabot, but I'll take Zub/Chrychrun over Samuelsson/whoever, and Power/Sanderson is a push for now). We have better forward depth after that, but that isn't difficult to overcome. We have better future assets? Sure.

They have options to improve their team and likely new owners.

Buffalo could easily leave them in the dust if they choose to spend and use assets to improve the team. I just doubt that is happening given the track record of our front office and the comments.

It's all academic for now, I just would guess that Ottawa is going to aggressive again and Buffalo will be passive again based on the comments from the respective front offices. But that is just a guess.

Idk I've told before how Ottawa's top 6 is better than ours. I don't believe it. Our top 6 forwards were +7 in points over their top 6 and if "when healthy" refers to Josh Norris, his best 55pt season wouldn't move the needle much. Also for the sake of consistency, the 6 players counted from Ottawa missed a combined 4 games. 4. Total. While the Sabres top 6 forwards missed a total of 23 games. It's just a Stutzle wet dream narrative.

 

[Chainshot]

Idk I've told before how Ottawa's top 6 is better than ours. I don't believe it. Our top 6 forwards were +7 in points over their top 6 and if "when healthy" refers to Josh Norris, his best 55pt season wouldn't move the needle much. Also for the sake of consistency, the 6 players counted from Ottawa missed a combined 4 games. 4. Total. While the Sabres top 6 forwards missed a total of 23 games. It's just a Stutzle wet dream narrative.

That might sell short on Norris. It would be similar to Buffalo missing Cozens for most of the year.

 

[RefsIdeas]

Can’t get over the thought of a trade with the Kings making so much sense. Kevyn Adams even mentioned looking at teams that might be looking to bring in a prospect into their lineup (Clarke) for a trade partner.

Matt Roy seems like exactly what the Sabres need for a number 4. Alex Iafallo seems like exactly the kind of player they need (good defensive forward) and the Kings need to shed cap. Not sure if the cost is two 2nds or a bit more, but I’m very willing to part with that for those players.

 

[BUCKSHOT]

Quinn and JPP should make Cozen size leaps for the '23-'24 season

 

[MOGlLNY]

Quinn and JPP should make Cozen size leaps for the '23-'24 season

that’s a massive ask and expectation

 

[Chainshot]

Can’t get over the thought of a trade with the Kings making so much sense. Kevyn Adams even mentioned looking at teams that might be looking to bring in a prospect into their lineup (Clarke) for a trade partner.

Matt Roy seems like exactly what the Sabres need for a number 4. Alex Iafallo seems like exactly the kind of player they need (good defensive forward) and the Kings need to shed cap. Not sure if the cost is two 2nds or a bit more, but I’m very willing to part with that for those players.

I could also see it being Durzi - Roy fits with what we fans would like stylistically but isn't a great fit in terms of the expiring contract. Durzi is the guy who fits what the Kings seem to be looking at shopping and has the age (24) and years of control as a pending RFA that might be more appealing to Adams.

Not an endorsement of Durzi, just an observation.

 

[Der Jaeger]

After his first few weeks to settle in, Petry was probably the Penguins best or second best defenseman. If the new GM is as analytically driven and economically aware, the value to replace what Petry brings would be difficult for the Pens to replace. I don't think Olofsson is a lever to move Petry out of the Pens lineup vs. the value he provides to the 'guins.

Agree. I’m slowly talking my way to Olofsson for Rutta. Rutta’s metrics weren’t great but he’s been good for a while riding shotgun for good partners.

 

[Matt Ress]

That might sell short on Norris. It would be similar to Buffalo missing Cozens for most of the year.

I clearly considered the idea of assuming his best season as an option. How many points do we need to make believe Norris would have had to make the OP a good point? Furthermore, would anyone have validity in assuming Cozens would make a jump from 38pts to 68pts without him actually doing it?

 

[Chainshot]

I clearly considered the idea of assuming his best season as an option. How many points do we need to make believe Norris would have had to make it a valid point? Furthermore, would anyone have validity in assuming Cozens would make a jump from 38pts to 68pts without him actually doing it?

Perhaps it's that Norris scored 35 in the year prior - that's a lot of goals to rip out of most lineups and Cozens was the closest this year if we're looking at impact.