Speculation: Sabres Roster Speculation - Pre-season 2023 Edition

[Dubi Doo]

Yeah I'd probably say a C- or so as well, we didn't truly answer some of the questions we have in our lineup. But we'll see what happens when the puck drops.

I'd give him a C+. I like that he revamped the defense. Some people like the acquisitions, some don't, but the fact we have a good amount of depth there, there's a cup winning savvy vet on the (likely) 3rd pairing, and Clifton at least has a decent amount of potential to mesh well with Power...makes me happy. Revamping the defense was one of the most important things I wanted from Adams, and he delivered.

I'm not too pissy about goaltending not being addressed. I would be annoyed if he made a move similar to Ottawa. None of the goalies rumored to be traded for seem to be on the block. I'd love Helle as a stopgap for a year, but it doesn't appear the Jets want to trade him. I'd give a top-10 protected first round pick for a year of Helle.

I would've liked to see the forward core revamped a bit. I at least understand the Okoposo re-signing. I just hope Granato can manage his minutes well. There are a few young players knocking on the door, though, so we'll see if this becomes a misjudgment by Adams.

Also, I really liked the draft this year, so if we're including that in the offseason, then I'd give Adams a B.

 

[Dubi Doo]

Wait, Dig-another-well defenders say it's not about money.



I don't care either, and while the Sabres have some serious young talent and a great pipeline, not utilizing cap room just seems wasteful. We really should have made the playoffs last year and should this year. We should be spending on those little bits for any edge.

Meh. Two different approaches. I'm cautiously optimistic regarding Adams. He has a vision of building through the draft, and early indications shows he's done great at drafting and developing players, though we need a bit more time to say for sure. In my mind, there are many ways to skin a cat, and Adams is at least showing promise that he knows the steps needed to skin a cat properly. Poor kitties.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

...On day 3 of free agency and no other teams have offered long term large contracts."

The Sabres shopping list this offseason was top 4 D and a defensively responsible bottom 6 center. Adams was never going to be able to convince any of the top UFAs(high-end players) at those positions to sign one year deals to come to Buffalo.

Let's be realistic.

Nobody wanted long-term deals. Why are these arguments conflated? We are talking one-year deals or last year two-year deals. Tons signed around the league. The nobody will come to Buffalo is getting old. Don't blame Kevyn Adams. We have zero idea of the internal cap. Last year, he traded for Bishop to get to the floor and we missed playoffs with a ridiculously thin D. Some money was spent this year, but almost $11 M in cap will be available once Comrie & Bryson head to minors. We have no idea whether GMKA wants to spend more money or not. Highly suspicious when we didn't use cap room to get some free picks at deadline. Free. Just required Pegula bucks.

Meh. Two different approaches. I'm cautiously optimistic regarding Adams. He has a vision of building through the draft, and early indications shows he's done great at drafting and developing players, though we need a bit more time to say for sure. In my mind, there are many ways to skin a cat, and Adams is at least showing promise that he knows the steps needed to skin a cat properly. Poor kitties.

Third last in the league in payroll. That may have zero to do with GMKA.

 

[Jim Bob]

Sabres Front Office Shakeup Could Really Go Either Way - The Hockey Writers Latest News, Analysis & More

Terry Pegula is back with the Sabres and this time in an executive role, but could this spell trouble for the team?

thehockeywriters.com

I doubt this has any effect on the roster. This is way more likely to affect the business side of things, IMO.

 

[MOGlLNY]

I'd give him a C+. I like that he revamped the defense. Some people like the acquisitions, some don't, but the fact we have a good amount of depth there, there's a cup winning savvy vet on the (likely) 3rd pairing, and Clifton at least has a decent amount of potential to mesh well with Power...makes me happy. Revamping the defense was one of the most important things I wanted from Adams, and he delivered.

I'm not too pissy about goaltending not being addressed. I would be annoyed if he made a move similar to Ottawa. None of the goalies rumored to be traded for seem to be on the block. I'd love Helle as a stopgap for a year, but it doesn't appear the Jets want to trade him. I'd give a top-10 protected first round pick for a year of Helle.

I would've liked to see the forward core revamped a bit. I at least understand the Okoposo re-signing. I just hope Granato can manage his minutes well. There are a few young players knocking on the door, though, so we'll see if this becomes a misjudgment by Adams.

Also, I really liked the draft this year, so if we're including that in the offseason, then I'd give Adams a B.

Yeah I don’t have a complaint with that rating either. I definitely have an issue with the goaltending issue as I’m pretty solidly in the camp that Levi should absolutely be in Rochester.

However, I think he definitely addressed the depth problem on defense which was an issue. Notably during our 8 game skid. But we didn’t get the bonafide top 4 RD we were looking for. Maybe Clifton turns into that, or maybe we pick up a true top 4 guy in the next 365 days and that knocks Clifton to bottom pair RD which would have us in a great position.

Haven’t seen any guys I’d be interested in acquiring go yet, so can’t really be mad. But that doesn’t mean I’m gonna give Adams a decent off-season rating.

 

[hizzoner]

I rate based on ability, availability and need. I also look to giving prospects NHL experience to see where they rate and since we cannot keep them all make a determination who would be available to trade. On that basis I give KA a B+.

 

[joshjull]

Cap space will come in handy at the deadline if the Sabres are in a playoff position. It won’t go to waste just because it’s still there on day one of the season.

I think they also need some wiggle room to prevent bonus overages that carry into next season. Not sure how much that might be this year though.

 

[KrakenSabresMike]

Sabres Front Office Shakeup Could Really Go Either Way - The Hockey Writers Latest News, Analysis & More

Terry Pegula is back with the Sabres and this time in an executive role, but could this spell trouble for the team?

thehockeywriters.com

I doubt this has any effect on the roster. This is way more likely to affect the business side of things, IMO.

Yeah this seems like an article resting WAY too much into the situation … I mean, Teri has always been at the draft table and draft meetings… it’s not like all of a sudden he’s around when he wasn’t.

 

[Beerz]

Sabres Front Office Shakeup Could Really Go Either Way - The Hockey Writers Latest News, Analysis & More

Terry Pegula is back with the Sabres and this time in an executive role, but could this spell trouble for the team?

thehockeywriters.com

I doubt this has any effect on the roster. This is way more likely to affect the business side of things, IMO.

Pegula's effect on the roster is what it has always been .. as owner.. whatever its been. President role is strictly business correct.

 

[Grouch]

You mean a D -. Worse grade than the Bruins who signed Lucic and JVR.

Yzerman looks like a genius with a grade of A-

I read it as the rating is driven by 1) not getting Dahlin and OP signed, the core of F's they resigned. (Girgs, KO, and Jost for $7m is nuts), and 3) who left.


1). Im still not expecting an extension for Dahlin prior to the season. OP I don't know.


2/3). Hino @ $800k - $1m>>>>> Jost @ $2m
Ilya @ $2.75m >>> Johnson @ $3.25m
$1.5m above plus the $5m for KO and Girgs could have landed a guy like Tarasenko for $6m.

 

[Jimmybarndoor2]

D rating for the Sabres. It is what they deserve. Someone outside of homer fans and media calls them out.

NHL offseason grades: Atlantic Division

Divisions: Central | Metropolitan | PacificWith the NHL offseason all but wrapped up, we're handing out comprehensive grades for all 32 teams. The four-part series concludes with an in-depth look at each Atlantic Division club.Some contract figures are reported. Most players on two-way deals...

www.thescore.com

And the red wings got an a minus

So red wings are better, right?

 

[Grouch]

And the red wings got an a minus

So red wings are better, right?

ORRRRR they made better moves in the off season to BECOME a better team than last year.

 

[KrakenSabresMike]

I read it as the rating is driven by 1) not getting Dahlin and OP signed, the core of F's they resigned. (Girgs, KO, and Jost for $7m is nuts), and 3) who left.


1). Im still not expecting an extension for Dahlin prior to the season. OP I don't know.


2/3). Hino @ $800k - $1m>>>>> Jost @ $2m
Ilya @ $2.75m >>> Johnson @ $3.25m
$1.5m above plus the $5m for KO and Girgs could have landed a guy like Tarasenko for $6m.

Jost plays center and is still young/former top 10 pick , it’s Johnson ( who has a cup and has way more talent than Bush even though he’s now old) + the 4th we got…

Ko and girgs are leaders that almost got those guys over the hump - they are 8 mil below the cap - they still could’ve signed Tarasenko if they wanted to, but obviously they didn’t. Or he didn’t want to come here…no prob with any of this that they did.

Honestly, Detroit has made some pretty bad moves the last couple years… do you wish Ben chariot was on our team??

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

Jost plays center and is still young/former top 10 pick , it’s Johnson ( who has a cup and has way more talent than Bush even though he’s now old) + the 4th we got…

Ko and girgs are leaders that almost got those guys over the hump - they are 8 mil below the cap - they still could’ve signed Tarasenko if they wanted to, but obviously they didn’t. Or he didn’t want to come here…no prob with any of this that they did.

Honestly, Detroit has made some pretty bad moves the last couple years… do you wish Ben chariot was on our team??

Who actually cares where Jost was picked? A very average or below average 4th liner for $2 M. Shouldn't he be able to take a face-off to play centre? He was a minus player, and his possession stats stink. Nobody in Buffalo can take an actual faceoff worth a damn. Dead last in the league. At the minimum, we could have signed a guy who can take a draw who isn't Cody Eakin. Tarastinko looks stale but Girgensons (who I will always love) and Okposo are very average 4th liners. My hope is Okposo is strictly a 4th liner who gets more than a few nights off and Girgensons is a penalty-killer with some 4th line. Maybe Cozens spent the summer learning how to take a draw. Tage is horrible in the circle. Why can't Peca be used to teach one of them to take a faceoff and win it? And I'll take the $8.5 M the Leafs spent on Bertuzzi and Domi all day long over all three of these guys. Zero commitment made in Toronto and depth added. Why we can't sign Tatar for an inflated one-year deal is a mystery.

 

[BUCKSHOT]

Who actually cares where Jost was picked? A very average or below average 4th liner for $2 M. Shouldn't he be able to take a face-off to play centre? He was a minus player, and his possession stats stink. Nobody in Buffalo can take an actual faceoff worth a damn. Dead last in the league. At the minimum, we could have signed a guy who can take a draw who isn't Cody Eakin. Tarastinko looks stale but Girgensons (who I will always love) and Okposo are very average 4th liners. My hope is Okposo is strictly a 4th liner who gets more than a few nights off and Girgensons is a penalty-killer with some 4th line. Maybe Cozens spent the summer learning how to take a draw. Tage is horrible in the circle. Why can't Peca be used to teach one of them to take a faceoff and win it? And I'll take the $8.5 M the Leafs spent on Bertuzzi and Domi all day long over all three of these guys. Zero commitment made in Toronto and depth added. Why we can't sign Tatar for an inflated one-year deal is a mystery.

because he is busy teaching the Rangers guys how

 

[Grouch]

Jost plays center and is still young/former top 10 pick , it’s Johnson ( who has a cup and has way more talent than Bush even though he’s now old) + the 4th we got…

Ko and girgs are leaders that almost got those guys over the hump - they are 8 mil below the cap - they still could’ve signed Tarasenko if they wanted to, but obviously they didn’t. Or he didn’t want to come here…no prob with any of this that they did.

Honestly, Detroit has made some pretty bad moves the last couple years… do you wish Ben chariot was on our team??

Difference in opinion....I think we have 4 other C's with Girgs if someone gets hurt. And if Johnsons exp is important, I would take Hino for $1m less any day. I'd even say that half of the reason for the jump in the play of Cozens and Krebs last year was the benefit of playing with Hino in 21-22.

Fair enough on Girgs and KO, but they are NEVER gonna go to the cap, so it would have to be Tarasenko in lieu of at least one of those.

Last couple years.......again the ratings were for THIS SUMMER ONLY. Reading is hard.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

Difference in opinion....I think we have 4 other C's with Girgs if someone gets hurt. And if Johnsons exp is important, I would take Hino for $1m less any day. I'd even say that half of the reason for the jump in the play of Cozens and Krebs last year was the benefit of playing with Hino in 21-22.

Fair enough on Girgs and KO, but they are NEVER gonna go to the cap, so it would have to be Tarasenko in lieu of at least one of those.

Last couple years.......again the ratings were for THIS SUMMER ONLY. Reading is hard.

Sure, the 7th overall Cozens who didn't even play in the AHL scored 31 goals and 68 points and elevated his play because of career 4th liner Vinny Hinostroza. He's 50% responsible for blue-chip player breaking out. So much overrating of aging veterans in Buffalo. Talent wins. Buffalo is stacked with talent. Doesn't hurt to have good draft positions and not pick Alex Nylander. I'll admit if you toss the worst coach possible in Ralph Krueger, some guys might not shine through but that is so unusual to have that bad a coach at the helm. That guy almost ended Jeff Skinner's career. Granato deserves tons of credit but how could you look bad after Freddy Kruger?

 

[brian_griffin]

Who actually cares where Jost was picked? A very average or below average 4th liner for $2 M. Shouldn't he be able to take a face-off to play centre? He was a minus player, and his possession stats stink. Nobody in Buffalo can take an actual faceoff worth a damn. Dead last in the league. At the minimum, we could have signed a guy who can take a draw who isn't Cody Eakin. Tarastinko looks stale but Girgensons (who I will always love) and Okposo are very average 4th liners. My hope is Okposo is strictly a 4th liner who gets more than a few nights off and Girgensons is a penalty-killer with some 4th line. Maybe Cozens spent the summer learning how to take a draw. Tage is horrible in the circle. Why can't Peca be used to teach one of them to take a faceoff and win it? And I'll take the $8.5 M the Leafs spent on Bertuzzi and Domi all day long over all three of these guys. Zero commitment made in Toronto and depth added. Why we can't sign Tatar for an inflated one-year deal is a mystery.

because he is busy teaching the Rangers guys how

Not to nitpick, but I'm pretty sure many of the methods / techniques used to win faceoffs in the Peca era of the mid-late-90's have been outlawed by the NHL rules committee.

 

[Grouch]

Sure, the 7th overall Cozens who didn't even play in the AHL scored 31 goals and 68 points and elevated his play because of career 4th liner Vinny Hinostroza. He's 50% responsible for blue-chip player breaking out. So much overrating of aging veterans in Buffalo. Talent wins. Buffalo is stacked with talent. Doesn't hurt to have good draft positions and not pick Alex Nylander. I'll admit if you toss the worst coach possible in Ralph Krueger, some guys might not shine through but that is so unusual to have that bad a coach at the helm. That guy almost ended Jeff Skinner's career. Granato deserves tons of credit but how could you look bad after Freddy Kruger?

Wow....lot of anger there....take a breath...its okay.

Obv Cozens is talented. Donnie alluded to it many times in 21-22 about Vinnie's impact on that line and developing, becoming a professional, work ethic, etc. Think is was buffalo hockey beat, but Im not gonna waste time to find any quotes. Also the athletic article talking about most underrated Sabre, and both Cozens and Krebs said Vinnie (not to mention Tage) talking about his skill and hockey IQ. I will take their opinion over anyone on a forum.

The rest of whatever you were talking about....no clue....nice rant tho.

Back to my point.....Hino > Jost and I don't get the love for Jost on this board.

 

[MOGlLNY]

Wow....lot of anger there....take a breath...its okay.

Obv Cozens is talented. Donnie alluded to it many times in 21-22 about Vinnie's impact on that line and developing, becoming a professional, work ethic, etc. Think is was buffalo hockey beat, but Im not gonna waste time to find any quotes. Also the athletic article talking about most underrated Sabre, and both Cozens and Krebs said Vinnie (not to mention Tage) talking about his skill and hockey IQ. I will take their opinion over anyone on a forum.

The rest of whatever you were talking about....no clue....nice rant tho.

Back to my point.....Hino > Jost and I don't get the love for Jost on this board.

Projecting

 

[Dingo44]

This is what this thread has become

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

Projecting

I'm so sick of 12 years of cast-off parts that no other teams want or barely wants. The list is long. Eakin, Hagg, Butcher, Dell, Sheehan, Rieder, Irwin, Sobotka, Gilmour,...I could name dozens of dozens of guys. It is amazing how many guys played their last NHL game in Buffalo. One thing exciting about young kids is at least there is a chance they can be good. Or stars. No more has-beens. Nolan Pratt will always be my favourite joke of a Sabre, who everyone told me was solid and got not one NHL offer after Buffalo.

I'm not suggesting that Girgensons isn't a decent player or Jost, but the latter was waived. I don't even know how the Sabres got to $2 M. Okposo at $2.5 million is some type of gift. There is not one other NHL team giving him that money. I like Kyle too, but $42 M over seven very average years -- he's the one who owes Buffalo something. I'll give you Girgensons could get more term, but the $2.5 M was hefty for what he has become.

Call me angry all you want. I've given the Sabres maybe $50K+ in season ticket money for some horrid players.

The time is now. I do not want the future jeopardized with long-term contracts on aging vets, but some better ads with a little tread on the tire would have been nice for 2023-24 one-year deals.

I will say, with the exception of Okposo, there is probably not one player on the roster who is destined to play his last game in Buffalo. That's a good thing. A great thing. Every player on the roster could make another NHL team. First time in years.

Wow....lot of anger there....take a breath...its okay.

Obv Cozens is talented. Donnie alluded to it many times in 21-22 about Vinnie's impact on that line and developing, becoming a professional, work ethic, etc. Think is was buffalo hockey beat, but Im not gonna waste time to find any quotes. Also the athletic article talking about most underrated Sabre, and both Cozens and Krebs said Vinnie (not to mention Tage) talking about his skill and hockey IQ. I will take their opinion over anyone on a forum.

The rest of whatever you were talking about....no clue....nice rant tho.

Back to my point.....Hino > Jost and I don't get the love for Jost on this board.

Jost was a 10th overall so people get excited. Draft pedigree matters less and less as you go on. It's like your university degree after job experience.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

I'm so sick of 12 years of cast-off parts that no other teams want or barely wants. The list is long. Eakin, Hagg, Butcher, Dell, Sheehan, Rieder, Irwin, Sobotka, Gilmour,...I could name dozens of dozens of guys. It is amazing how many guys played their last NHL game in Buffalo. One thing exciting about young kids is at least there is a chance they can be good. Or stars. No more has-beens. Nolan Pratt will always be my favourite joke of a Sabre, who everyone told me was solid and got not one NHL offer after Buffalo.

I'm not suggesting that Girgensons isn't a decent player or Jost, but the latter was waived. I don't even know how the Sabres got to $2 M. Okposo at $2.5 million is some type of gift. There is not one other NHL team giving him that money. I like Kyle too, but $42 M over seven very average years -- he's the one who owes Buffalo something. I'll give you Girgensons could get more term, but the $2.5 M was hefty for what he has become.

Call me angry all you want. I've given the Sabres maybe $50K+ in season ticket money for some horrid players.

The time is now. I do not want the future jeopardized with long-term contracts on aging vets, but some better ads with a little tread on the tire would have been nice for 2023-24 one-year deals.

I will say, with the exception of Okposo, there is probably not one player on the roster who is destined to play his last game in Buffalo. That's a good thing. A great thing. Every player on the roster could make another NHL team. First time in years.



Jost was a 10th overall so people get excited. Draft pedigree matters less and less as you go on. It's like your university degree after job experience.

I'd be angry too if the league was geared towards making moves -- but it's not. I find the fact that we didn't get a needle-moving Dman or goaltender very disheartening, and feel it will probably prevent us from making the playoffs again.

But not only does Adams have to work with other GMs, who are all extremely conservative on making deals of any kind, but he's also limited to players who want to purposely play for Buffalo, which is a small pool. He's been rumored to try to land Chychrun, Peasce, and Hanifin, with the latter two seemingly refusing to sign an extension in Buffalo. And he reportetdly made a very competitive offer for Chychrun.

The only way you can really be mad at Adams is if you create fake scenarios in your head where he has had many options to improve the team and turned them down, which I see zero evidence of.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

I'd be angry too if the league was geared towards making moves -- but it's not. I find the fact that we didn't get a needle-moving Dman or goaltender very disheartening, and feel it will probably prevent us from making the playoffs again.

But not only does Adams have to work with other GMs, who are all extremely conservative on making deals of any kind, but he's also limited to players who want to purposely play for Buffalo, which is a small pool. He's been rumored to try to land Chychrun, Peasce, and Hanifin, with the latter two seemingly refusing to sign an extension in Buffalo. And he reportetdly made a very competitive offer for Chychrun.

The only way you can really be mad at Adams is if you create fake scenarios in your head where he has had many options to improve the team and turned them down, which I see zero evidence of.

Adams is damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t with a portion of this fanbase.

 

[Irie]

Nobody wanted long-term deals. Why are these arguments conflated? We are talking one-year deals or last year two-year deals. Tons signed around the league. The nobody will come to Buffalo is getting old. Don't blame Kevyn Adams. We have zero idea of the internal cap. Last year, he traded for Bishop to get to the floor and we missed playoffs with a ridiculously thin D. Some money was spent this year, but almost $11 M in cap will be available once Comrie & Bryson head to minors. We have no idea whether GMKA wants to spend more money or not. Highly suspicious when we didn't use cap room to get some free picks at deadline. Free. Just required Pegula bucks.

I think it is more like "no teams were offering long term deals". Most of the UFAs that signed 1 year deals would have loved to get 5-7 year contracts, but no teams had them on the table.

If you look at the UFA D that signed this offseason, only three of them making over 3 million signed 1 year deals. Ghost, Dumba and Cole.

It was widly reported that Dumba was looking for a long term big money deal and he held out and was left without a chair.

Even 33 year olds Gudas and Schenn both got 3 years. Graves - 6 years. Mayfield - 7 years. Severson - 8 years.

Orlov and Gavrikov went 2 years, but they are seriously overpaid and signed with legitimate playoff teams/cup favorites.

This argument is not about buffalo's internal budget, (every topic does not have to revolve around Kevyn Adams, and yes, there was/likely still is an internal budget for this team currently, but that is irrelevant) - It is strictly about the reality of the UFA market. Top UFAs don't frequently sign in the small markets(players signing in their hometown being the exception). How many high-end UFAs have signed in Buffalo, San Jose, Winnipeg, Ottawa when larger markets are offering similar deals? It doesn't happen often unless they are offering the most money/term. I am willing to bet that a few of the big market teams have signed substantially more premier UFAs alone than those 4 teams combined over the past two decades.