Speculation: Sabres Roster Speculation - Pre-season 2023 Edition

[K8fool]

This is hilarious. Adams is the general manager. That's the GMs job. Krueger deserves a lot of blame for what happened on the ice. But Adams job is the roster that sucked ass. If his coach told him to do dumb shit, he should have told him no. That's the GMs job.



Adams "chose" to be economic. Because that is what he was hired to do. Terry Pegula said so himself.




Eichel for Tuch isn't a wash. Eichel is clearly the superior player. Tuch is a better fit off the ice, but in terms of on ice impact, it's not a wash. Eichel was 2nd in conn smythe voting.



It's not bad faith...2020, 21, 22, 23. That's 4 offseasons for Adams


They are returning 17 players from the 20-21 season this season. That isn't do much.

This is the year that patience and real coaching w permission to take risks and be creative, trusting Donny Meatballs, pays off

It's not the notes you play but the notes you don't play.

 

[K8fool]

I have no idea what KA has decided, but Donnie is the coach and he expicitly contradicted your assumptions:

Sabres coach Don Granato on Connor Clifton, juggling lines, Victor Olofsson and more







The coach repeatedly mentioned splitting up Tuch and Thompson as well as having Mitts on the top line. This isn't even reading between the lines or tin foil hat theory, the coach is explicitly telling you about some of the options he'll be exploring this season.

Can you send the text of that July 6th Donny article in Athletic?

The wont unlock their contents months later anc can suck it if they think I should choose athletic over drugs etc.( f u , i give all my best ideas away for free because I'm Actually human) they are insane to grip that content months later .. I would like to read this if it fell into my lap as I'm a fan of Mr Meatballs

 

[Irie]

Eichel for Tuch isn't a wash. Eichel is clearly the superior player. Tuch is a better fit off the ice, but in terms of on ice impact, it's not a wash. Eichel was 2nd in conn smythe voting.

You grossly underestimate what Tuch brought to this team. He was the swagger, the confidence and the voice of optimism in that dressing room once he suited up for the team.

The team made a complete 180 from a rudderless mess it was to a team with attitude, swagger, and a belief in themselves once he came in.

I do not believe this team has the turn around it does if Eichel stays and Tuch never arrives. The dressing room would be a miserable doom fest and guys would be looking to get out instead of wanting to sign long-term deals to stay.

On the Ice, Eichel is a great player, but Tuch can also be a dominant force, and when you add the intangibles that Tuch brought to the table, I would move Eichel straight up for him again in a heartbeat. Krebs and 16th OA pick were just gravy.

 

[PatLaFontaineASMR]

Well, in my opinion, center is one of the most difficult positions to play in hockey because there's so much defensive responsibility compared to wing. I also want Cozens to get as many reps at center as possible. He's taken a big step forward offensively, but I think there's still a lot for him to learn defensively. I've always envisioned him as a Jeff Carter clone if he hits his defensive potential.

Of course, if injuries hit hard, then Granato needs to do whatever needs to be done to get Ws out of this squad. As long as Tage and Thompson are healthy, then I think it's a safe bet that they'll be our top-6 centers this year and well into the future.

I do find it funny that you envision him to be a Jeff Carter clone.. a guy that played both center and wing lol.

I just don't understand the uproar if Mitts plays C in between Tuch & Skinner. If they play well why does it matter? Don clearly wants to spread the talent out.

 

[PatLaFontaineASMR]

Stamkos was a first overall draftpick who scored 50+ goals and won the Richard trophy as a teenager in a tighter checking NHL. He put up 95 and 97 points(and 60 goals - his second Richard trophy) while younger than Cozens was last season. Cozens is never going to be the type of player Stamkos is, but he has a chance to be a very special two-way center in my opinion - but he still has a lot of work to do to realize that potential, and playing the center position is the only way he is going to get there.

So for me, I feel it is imperative that Cozens get center reps. We already know that Tage is less effective at wing. Thompson and Cozens are being paid to be top six centers. The downside cost of playing Mitts as the top line center would likely be one or more of:

Cozens does not get the reps and starts developing into a Winger more than a NHL Center.
Thompson's point totals drop off substantially away from Tuch and he is less effective.
You'd be padding Mitt's stats and exponentially increasing his bargaining leverage for his next contract - which would make him yet another 7+M dollar forward after next offseason, which is going to break the cap moving forward.

If having Mittelstadt as a top six center over Cozens or Thompson is the longterm plan, then playing him with Tuch makes sense and is going to guarantee him top six center production, but if that is the longterm plan, then it would probably be in the teams best interest to trade Thompson or Cozens for cap purposes and to address other holes in the roster (which I do not want to see happen).

I do understand your position, and I would love to see Mittelstadt have a huge breakout (I have defended Mitts on the main boards multiple times in heated debates with other team's fans who where saying he was what he was and was probably never going to be more than a 40 pt player), but I am also a firm believe in cap management and allocating set amount of cap to certain positions and roles. Having a 3rd line center making 7+M is going to break your cap. Play him on the 2nd line wing or 3rd line center, and give him the top line center duties if Tage gets injured, but don't demote your two top 6 centers in a non-cup contending season just to see what you have in an RFA with arb rights. The larger cap landscape has to be considered while roster building and shrewd management is going to take potential consequences of all moves into consideration if they are serious about winning it all. It is a very unpopular position on these boards, and I get why, but it is a hard, cold reality of a cap world.

(for the record, the position is not "do not ice your best lineup", the position is "do not replace your 94pt center with an arb eligible RFA" if you do not have to in a non-contending year)

Stamkos isn't the only player to mix it up on C and W lol. There are plenty of great players to do so. Like another poster mentioned Jeff Carter & Mike Richards both switched it up depending on who they worked well with at the time.

If you find a line that works together why not? If Cozens and Tage work great together is that a bad thing? Don clearly wants to spread the talent around. He's tried it a few times last season. Sometimes it didn't work. Putting Mitts with Tuch & Skinner worked well though.

If Mitts works well in the top 6 why would he be a 3C? Wouldn't Krebs be the 3C? Why would we have to trade Cozens or Tage if Mitts is a decent top 6 guy lol? I feel like you're overthinking this like crazy. Good teams are about finding players that work together. They don't necessarily have to be top guys playing on top lines. Barbashev worked well with Eichel. Mark Stone didn't have to play on the first line. I didn't see Vegas posters going, "no way is Barbashev on the first line. Stone HAS TO BE ON THE FIRST LINE."

If Mitts plays well enough to make 7M+ shouldn't we try and keep him? If not we could just trade him for a good return. Not wanting to play the guy because he might make more I definitely don't understand. Should we never have put Tage on the 1C because we risked him making much more if he broke out?

 

[Irie]

Stamkos isn't the only player to mix it up on C and W lol. There are plenty of great players to do so. Like another poster mentioned Jeff Carter & Mike Richards both switched it up depending on who they worked well with at the time.

If you find a line that works together why not? If Cozens and Tage work great together is that a bad thing? Don clearly wants to spread the talent around. He's tried it a few times last season. Sometimes it didn't work. Putting Mitts with Tuch & Skinner worked well though.

If Mitts works well in the top 6 why would he be a 3C? Wouldn't Krebs be the 3C? Why would we have to trade Cozens or Tage if Mitts is a decent top 6 guy lol? I feel like you're overthinking this like crazy. Good teams are about finding players that work together. They don't necessarily have to be top guys playing on top lines. Barbashev worked well with Eichel. Mark Stone didn't have to play on the first line. I didn't see Vegas posters going, "no way is Barbashev on the first line. Stone HAS TO BE ON THE FIRST LINE."

If Mitts plays well enough to make 7M+ shouldn't we try and keep him? If not we could just trade him for a good return. Not wanting to play the guy because he might make more I definitely don't understand. Should we never have put Tage on the 1C because we risked him making much more if he broke out?

First of all, can we agree that Thompson is three times the player at center vs when he is playing on the wing?

My opinion. Cozens is a rare breed. Size, speed, skill, and grit. He is a bit of a unicorn, and players like him do not come along all that often, and he WANTS to be in Buffalo! I want him playing center long-term on this team. The best way for him to develop to be the best center he can be is to play a lot of games at center now.

You are making the bogus argument that was presented on this topic earlier this offseason. It is not at all about not wanting to play Casey on the top line, it is ALL about not wanting to move Thompson off the top line so that Casey can play there. You move Thompson of the top line and he likely goes from a 94pt player to a 75pt player. Are you really gaining that much if Mitts production goes from 60 to 80 points, but Tage's drops 20 points, and, oh yeah, you are robbing Cozens of valuable center development time?

If Tage gets hurts, Mitts should be first on the list to draw into that top line replacement spot, but Tage is healthy, and anyone that plays between Skinner and Tuch is going to put up PPG numbers. So why would you demote your allstar center (who is signed longterm) to play an arbitration eligible RFA there and neuter the development of your 6'3" 22 year old stud two way center prospect? The downside far outweighs the upside in a non championship aspiring season.

 

[joshjull]

Stamkos was a first overall draftpick who scored 50+ goals and won the Richard trophy as a teenager in a tighter checking NHL. He put up 95 and 97 points(and 60 goals - his second Richard trophy) while younger than Cozens was last season. Cozens is never going to be the type of player Stamkos is, but he has a chance to be a very special two-way center in my opinion - but he still has a lot of work to do to realize that potential, and playing the center position is the only way he is going to get there.

I agree that doesn't work for Cozens. But Tage on the other hand could very much be that goal scoring winger.

We already know that Tage is less effective at wing.

No we don't.

Cozens does not get the reps and starts developing into a Winger more than a NHL Center.
Thompson's point totals drop off substantially away from Tuch and he is less effective.

Tage on Cozens wing moves him away from the top checkers and puts him with a two-way center. It would reduce what's asked of him defensively and allow him to be even more aggressive offensively.

I very much doubt the likely outcome of that would be his production dropping off substantially.

You'd be padding Mitt's stats and exponentially increasing his bargaining leverage for his next contract - which would make him yet another 7+M dollar forward after next offseason, which is going to break the cap moving forward.

I love how Mitts is "padding" his stats in this role.

If having Mittelstadt as a top six center over Cozens or Thompson is the longterm plan, then playing him with Tuch makes sense and is going to guarantee him top six center production, but if that is the longterm plan, then it would probably be in the teams best interest to trade Thompson or Cozens for cap purposes and to address other holes in the roster (which I do not want to see happen).

There would be no reason to trade any of them. You would have 3 guys who could handle the top 2 center spots or even the top 3 if you want. Plus at least two of them could be effective top 6 wingers (probably Tage/Mitts). Giving them a ton of flexibility. Which is ultimately what Granato is probably thinking.

I would love to see Mittelstadt have a huge breakout

You don't want to give him the opportunity though.

but I am also a firm believe in cap management and allocating set amount of cap to certain positions and roles. Having a 3rd line center making 7+M is going to break your cap.

He isn't a 3rd line center if he earned a 7mil deal. Which makes that argument fairly pointless. But I do love your theme that the contract would be unearned, unlike the other two.

It's funny because you also argued Tage's production would drop of substantially if moved away from the top line. That seems to imply he needs Tuch to produce as opposed to being the top forward we're paying him to be. Trying to have it both ways, I guess.

(for the record, the position is not "do not ice your best lineup", the position is "do not replace your 94pt center with an arb eligible RFA" if you do not have to in a non-contending year)

We both know he didn't put up 94pts with his line. It was 55pts at 5v5 and even some of that wasn't with them.

Play him on the 2nd line wing or 3rd line center, and give him the top line center duties if Tage gets injured, but don't demote your two top 6 centers in a non-cup contending season just to see what you have in an RFA with arb rights. The larger cap landscape has to be considered while roster building and shrewd management is going to take potential consequences of all moves into consideration if they are serious about winning it all. It is a very unpopular position on these boards, and I get why, but it is a hard, cold reality of a cap world.

It's not an unpopular opinion, it's just... silly. You don't want to see Mitts centering the top line and feel Tage/Cozens should be the 1/2 centers. I don't think anyone has an issue with that, including myself. But there's no hockey or cap reason not to try it Mitts as the top line center. I'm actually surprised how over the top you've gotten arguing against it.

I expect Granato to try it since he said he's thinking of doing. It may be an in game or stretch of games adjustment or game by game situational thing. Maybe its permanent. Or maybe he tries, it fails and he goes back to the original top line. Who knows.

 

[Irie]

Like another poster mentioned Jeff Carter & Mike Richards both switched it up depending on who they worked well with at the time.

For the record, Carter never played on Richards' line in Philly. They didn't actually play together until both were in LA. By then, Carter had already been in the league for 8 seasons and those years were far from his most productive. He really was more of a 60-65 pt winger in that role on those cup winning Kings' teams, and that role made sense for him since the Kings had Kopitar as their #1.

 

[Irie]

I agree that doesn't work for Cozens. But Tage on the other hand could very much be that goal scoring winger.

No we don't.


Tage on Cozens wing moves him away from the top checkers and puts him with a two-way center. It would reduce what's asked of him defensively and allow him to be even more aggressive offensively.

I very much doubt the likely outcome of that would be his production dropping off substantially.


I love how Mitts is "padding" his stats in this role.


There would be no reason to trade any of them. You would have 3 guys who could handle the top 2 center spots and at least two who could be effective top 6 wingers (probably Tage/Mitts). Giving them a ton of flexibility. Which is ultimately what Granato is probably thinking.

You clearly don't want to give him the opportunity though.


He isn't a 3rd line center if he earned a 7mil deal. Which makes that argument fairly pointless. But I do love your theme that the contract would be unearned, unlike the other two.

It's also funny because you also argued Tage's production would drop of substantially if moved away from the top line. That seems to imply he needs Tuch to produce as opposed to being the top forward we're paying him to be. Trying to have it both ways, I guess.

We both know he didn't put up 94pts with his line. It was 55pts at 5v5 and even some of that wasn't with them.


It's not an unpopular opinion, it's just... silly. You don't want to see Mitts centering the top line and feel Tage/Cozens should be the 1/2 centers. I don't think anyone has an issue with that, including myself. But there's no hockey or cap reason not to try it Mitts as the top line center. I'm actually surprised how over the top you've gotten arguing against it.

I expect Granato to try it since he said he's thinking of doing. It may be an in game or stretch of games adjustment or game by game situational thing. Maybe its permanent. Or maybe he tries, it fails and he goes back to the original top line. Who knows.

You make a lot of assumptions about my positions and all of them are way off the mark,

If Mittelstadt had not gotten hurt and took the first line role instead of Thompson and was extended to a 7 year 50M dollar contract, and we were talking about demoting him to move Krebs to the first line to "distribute the scoring", I would be arguing the same position in favor of keeping Mitts on the top line. You play the players you paid to play in the roles you signed them to play in a cap era *if* they are capable of producing.

Tuch is the biggest line driver on this team and has the biggest influence on his linemates production. Whomever he plays with puts up substamtially more points than when playing away from him. So yes, I am saying that whomever plays with Tuch is going to produce at a rate they likely will not sustain away from him. You may call that a leap of logic, but I call it the eyeball test backed up by advanced analytics....

As far as Thompson goes, I am just quoting the entire coaching staff and Thompson himself when I say that he is a much better player when playing center. If you watched any of the games in 2022, that was all they talked about - how moving him to center and playing up and down the middle of the ice really gave him the space he needed to become the player he is today, and how playing wing along the boards really hemmed him in and limited his strengths. I guess you missed the entire season?

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

I've been thinking about this interview while reading the debate. Lots of poster will be having fits when camp opens. Granato doesn't think like they do.

He tried it to start last season as well. Lasted like 3 games till he put the power line back together.

 

[joshjull]

He tried it to start last season as well. Lasted like 3 games till he put the power line back together.

Not quite. He had VO on the top line and Tuch with Mitts. Cozens wasn't involved at all.

Skinner/Tage/VO
Quinn/Mitts/Tuch

 

[Fjordsen]

All valid and logical points.

But I've been bullish on Casey and will continue to be. I think management sees him as part of the core...

No, I'm not saying he definitely won't be part of the core, but Adams will soon have to make difficult decisions when it comes to extension players and introducing new young players to the roster. Guys like Benson, Savoie, Kulich will be very useful to us because of their ELS, so that there are no problems with the cap. Now Dahlin will probably be signed for 10-10.5 million, now there is a contract landmark for Power (Sanderson).

Mitts is a good player that I underestimated, but so far I see him as a winger in the top 6 or 3C, although he can even play as a winger in the third line. Then we will have more balanced lines. But there is a problem in Olofsson, they should not play on the same line, and it would be nice to replace him with a more versatile player like Tatar. Maybe even Rousek could play the part, or one of our top prospects.

 

[Irie]

I've been thinking about this interview while reading the debate. Lots of poster will be having fits when camp opens. Granato doesn't think like they do.

Most Posters won't be having fits, because a lot of posters are realistic about the situation. They expect missteps from a coaching staff that is led by a minor league coach with an ECHL coach, an AHL assistant coach, and a former player with no coaching experience.

Luckily for those posters, there is no playoff expectations with this coaching staff because they know that no team has ever made the playoffs with a sub 75% PK since they started keeping PK percentage records and the teams PK is being run by an assistant who's only previous NHL coaching experience was under Dallas Eakins, who's .393 win percentage and consistent bottom of the league PK numbers represent his coaching philosophy which is now being implemented in Buffalo....

All sarcasm aside, this team is young, having a green coach who lets them make mistakes, but is fun for them to play for is what this team needed after the unpleasant coaching stench that permeated the Sabres locker-room. Granato has a ton to learn about coaching in the NHL, and it is clear he is in over his head on the defensive side of the ice. He is playing checkers in a 3D chess league, which is why I was really hoping for a new assistant or two who have a better grasp on defensive pressure spacing and shifting than Wolford and his minor league strategies, but even given his shortcomings, Granato's demeanor and rapport with the players goes a very long way in creating that environment that makes guys want to stay and play hard for the team, which is honestly a lot.

Will he ignore cap implications with personnel moves? Probably. Are the players learning some bad habits that may be hard to break? Definitely. Are the palyers having fun playing and developing a sense of team and commitment to the organization and community? Absolutely.

This team may never take the next step if the coaching staff remains stagnant, but this situation for this young team is a whole lot better than a hardass taskmaster coach while all the young guys are developing and there is still time before the window opens, so a lot of posters are patient and not yet throwing "fits", regardless of how much they disagree with current moves.

 

[joshjull]

Most Posters won't be having fits, because a lot of posters are realistic about the situation. They expect missteps from a coaching staff that is led by a minor league coach with an ECHL coach, an AHL assistant coach, and a former player with no coaching experience.

Luckily for those posters, there is no playoff expectations with this coaching staff because they know that no team has ever made the playoffs with a sub 75% PK since they started keeping PK percentage records and the teams PK is being run by an assistant who's only previous NHL coaching experience was under Dallas Eakins, who's .393 win percentage and consistent bottom of the league PK numbers represent his coaching philosophy which is now being implemented in Buffalo....

All sarcasm aside, this team is young, having a green coach who lets them make mistakes, but is fun for them to play for is what this team needed after the unpleasant coaching stench that permeated the Sabres locker-room. Granato has a ton to learn about coaching in the NHL, and it is clear he is in over his head on the defensive side of the ice. He is playing checkers in a 3D chess league, which is why I was really hoping for a new assistant or two who have a better grasp on defensive pressure spacing and shifting than Wolford and his minor league strategies, but even given his shortcomings, Granato's demeanor and rapport with the players goes a very long way in creating that environment that makes guys want to stay and play hard for the team, which is honestly a lot.

Will he ignore cap implications with personnel moves? Probably. Are the players learning some bad habits that may be hard to break? Definitely. Are the palyers having fun playing and developing a sense of team and commitment to the organization and community? Absolutely.

This team may never take the next step if the coaching staff remains stagnant, but this situation for this young team is a whole lot better than a hardass taskmaster coach while all the young guys are developing and there is still time before the window opens, so a lot of posters are patient and not yet throwing "fits", regardless of how much they disagree with current moves.

All this over the mere suggestion of Tage on the wing. Wow.

 

[Aladyyn]

It was obviously not a big sample size, but Skinner-Mittelstadt-Tuch was the best line we fielded for any reasonable amount of time last season by pretty much all metrics. Granato would be a fool to not explore it further and he is no fool.

I do personally see Mitts as more of a winger, but between him and Tage/Cozens he does bring the most defensively. I'd be interested in perhaps replacing Skinner on that line (keeping him with Tage because they're dope together - they had some really good numbers with Okposo in ~55 minutes together) and attempting to create a genuine two-way line that can allow Tage and Cozens lines to focus more on offense.

 

[Irie]

Do you even grasp how pathetic and douchey this post is?

All this over the mere suggestion of Tage on the wing. Wow.

That response has nothing to do with Thompson or Mitts. It is strictly responding to your "Fits" post.

The Thompson on the wing response I replied with earlier was my response for your "Tage on the wing" position.

You veil insult a group of posters and get a reply with some sarcasm in it and call that response Douchey? Yeah, you are the poster child for high-road my friend.

 

[joshjull]

1. We already have Thompson and Cozens as our 1Cs and 2Cs with a much larger sample than Mitts.

The coach has already said he's thinking of breaking up Tage/Tuch.

2. It would be nice to balance line up so that the third line also produces something, and is not a burden

Fair point.

3. He is a useful player, but I see him as a winger in the top 6 or 3c, also he may end up being redundant in the near future when Benson, Savoie and Kulich are in the squad.

I don't think kids who aren't even in the NHL yet are going to supplant him any time soon.

As for where he best fits.... Could be a few different spots. Nice to have that flexibility.

4. So far I don't see Adams paying Mitts like Thompson and Cozens in the long term and it won't be easy for our cap anyway.

I don't see him getting that kind of money unless he plays an entire year centering the top line. I'm not sure how realistic that is, even with Granato talking about it.

 

[joshjull]

That response has nothing to do with Thompson or Mitts. It is strictly responding to your "Fits" post.

The Thompson on the wing response I replied with earlier was my response for your "Tage on the wing" position.

You backhand insult a group of posters and get a reply with some sarcasm in it and call that response Douchey? Yeah, you are the poster child for high-road my friend.

Some sarcasm? Try a long angry rant that was pretty douchey to the coaching staff.

I'm pretty sure you meant backhanded compliment. Which I didn't do nor did I insult. I stated facts.
Granato thinks differently than they do. Several posters will be mad if he puts Mitts at center on the top line. They will be venting about it on here or "throwing a fit", if you will. Kind of like you and a few others are already starting to do at the mere suggestion of it.

 

[Old Navy Goat]

I like the idea of making two #1 lines and forcing the opposition to react to it. Greenway-Thompson-Cozens would be a big, fast, hard to handle line.

 

[TageGod]

I have no idea what KA has decided, but Donnie is the coach and he expicitly contradicted your assumptions:

Sabres coach Don Granato on Connor Clifton, juggling lines, Victor Olofsson and more







The coach repeatedly mentioned splitting up Tuch and Thompson as well as having Mitts on the top line. This isn't even reading between the lines or tin foil hat theory, the coach is explicitly telling you about some of the options he'll be exploring this season.

Coach speak. Not like he committed either way. You can still have it Mitts Cozens Tuch and Skinner Thompson Peterka. We all know lines juggle.

 

[PatLaFontaineASMR]

For the record, Carter never played on Richards' line in Philly. They didn't actually play together until both were in LA. By then, Carter had already been in the league for 8 seasons and those years were far from his most productive. He really was more of a 60-65 pt winger in that role on those cup winning Kings' teams, and that role made sense for him since the Kings had Kopitar as their #1.

I'm not talking about them playing together. I'm talking about them playing on wing & center and various points in their career. Did you forget him playing wing in Philly? He played on Giroux's wing for a bit. I don't know why you're nitpicking every example. There are plenty of guys that switch it around depending on chemistry.

 

[PatLaFontaineASMR]

First of all, can we agree that Thompson is three times the player at center vs when he is playing on the wing?

My opinion. Cozens is a rare breed. Size, speed, skill, and grit. He is a bit of a unicorn, and players like him do not come along all that often, and he WANTS to be in Buffalo! I want him playing center long-term on this team. The best way for him to develop to be the best center he can be is to play a lot of games at center now.

You are making the bogus argument that was presented on this topic earlier this offseason. It is not at all about not wanting to play Casey on the top line, it is ALL about not wanting to move Thompson off the top line so that Casey can play there. You move Thompson of the top line and he likely goes from a 94pt player to a 75pt player. Are you really gaining that much if Mitts production goes from 60 to 80 points, but Tage's drops 20 points, and, oh yeah, you are robbing Cozens of valuable center development time?

If Tage gets hurts, Mitts should be first on the list to draw into that top line replacement spot, but Tage is healthy, and anyone that plays between Skinner and Tuch is going to put up PPG numbers. So why would you demote your allstar center (who is signed longterm) to play an arbitration eligible RFA there and neuter the development of your 6'3" 22 year old stud two way center prospect? The downside far outweighs the upside in a non championship aspiring season.

I wouldn't have him playing wing. I'd have him down the middle & Cozens taking faceoffs. If that doesn't work you can easily just switch it up. I don't know why you wouldn't give it a try.

I just want him playing big minutes. I don't really care if he's like Jeff Carter playing on the wing of another good C or centering a line himself. Cozens is versatile.

How is Tage dropping 20 points by just moving him with Cozens/Peterka(doesn't have to be Peterka) instead of Skinner/Tuch?

He's not being demoted. Did Stone get demoted off Vegas first line? Or did the find some guys that worked well together and rolled with it? Also Don has never viewed lines like that.

 

[brian_griffin]

You grossly underestimate what Tuch brought to this team. He was the swagger, the confidence and the voice of optimism in that dressing room once he suited up for the team.

The team made a complete 180 from a rudderless mess it was to a team with attitude, swagger, and a belief in themselves once he came in.

I do not believe this team has the turn around it does if Eichel stays and Tuch never arrives. The dressing room would be a miserable doom fest and guys would be looking to get out instead of wanting to sign long-term deals to stay.

On the Ice, Eichel is a great player, but Tuch can also be a dominant force, and when you add the intangibles that Tuch brought to the table, I would move Eichel straight up for him again in a heartbeat. Krebs and 16th OA pick were just gravy.

Agreed. Alex Tuch WANTED to be a Buffalo Sabre, WANTS to be a Buffalo Sabre, and WANTS to bring the Cup to Buffalo.
Jack Eichel rarely, if ever, WANTED to be a Buffalo Sabre, and his Cup motivation is 99% personal and 1% fan base. If he ends up in Boston, those percentages may change.

First of all, can we agree that Thompson is three times the player at center vs when he is playing on the wing?

My opinion. Cozens is a rare breed. Size, speed, skill, and grit. He is a bit of a unicorn, and players like him do not come along all that often, and he WANTS to be in Buffalo! I want him playing center long-term on this team. The best way for him to develop to be the best center he can be is to play a lot of games at center now.

You are making the bogus argument that was presented on this topic earlier this offseason. It is not at all about not wanting to play Casey on the top line, it is ALL about not wanting to move Thompson off the top line so that Casey can play there. You move Thompson of the top line and he likely goes from a 94pt player to a 75pt player. Are you really gaining that much if Mitts production goes from 60 to 80 points, but Tage's drops 20 points, and, oh yeah, you are robbing Cozens of valuable center development time?

If Tage gets hurts, Mitts should be first on the list to draw into that top line replacement spot, but Tage is healthy, and anyone that plays between Skinner and Tuch is going to put up PPG numbers. So why would you demote your allstar center (who is signed longterm) to play an arbitration eligible RFA there and neuter the development of your 6'3" 22 year old stud two way center prospect? The downside far outweighs the upside in a non championship aspiring season.

Cozens attributes perhaps make him a lite version of Bobby Clarke.

Most Posters won't be having fits, because a lot of posters are realistic about the situation. They expect missteps from a coaching staff that is led by a minor league coach with an ECHL coach, an AHL assistant coach, and a former player with no coaching experience.

Luckily for those posters, there is no playoff expectations with this coaching staff because they know that no team has ever made the playoffs with a sub 75% PK since they started keeping PK percentage records and the teams PK is being run by an assistant who's only previous NHL coaching experience was under Dallas Eakins, who's .393 win percentage and consistent bottom of the league PK numbers represent his coaching philosophy which is now being implemented in Buffalo....

All sarcasm aside, this team is young, having a green coach who lets them make mistakes, but is fun for them to play for is what this team needed after the unpleasant coaching stench that permeated the Sabres locker-room. Granato has a ton to learn about coaching in the NHL, and it is clear he is in over his head on the defensive side of the ice. He is playing checkers in a 3D chess league, which is why I was really hoping for a new assistant or two who have a better grasp on defensive pressure spacing and shifting than Wolford and his minor league strategies, but even given his shortcomings, Granato's demeanor and rapport with the players goes a very long way in creating that environment that makes guys want to stay and play hard for the team, which is honestly a lot.

Will he ignore cap implications with personnel moves? Probably. Are the players learning some bad habits that may be hard to break? Definitely. Are the palyers having fun playing and developing a sense of team and commitment to the organization and community? Absolutely.

This team may never take the next step if the coaching staff remains stagnant, but this situation for this young team is a whole lot better than a hardass taskmaster coach while all the young guys are developing and there is still time before the window opens, so a lot of posters are patient and not yet throwing "fits", regardless of how much they disagree with current moves.

To be fair, by all the information we have, both the coaching staff statements and visual on-ice game-watching, Granato has not yet attempted to implement "his" defensive system and required it be a focus up and down the lineup. He repeatedly said he wanted to focus on offense and fun hockey because of the roster youth. I expect that to change this season. (I won't rebut the "need better assistant coaches" comments - with those I agree.)

=================
to the general board:
RE: the whole Mittelstadt / Thompson / Cozens topic, re-do the top 2 lines, play 3 lines of balanced scoring, etc.
1) I expect we'll see a lot of intermittent differences throughout this season driven by injuries, experimentation, etc.
2) I further expect Granato will seek to optimize his lines for both ends of the ice. Hypothetically, a 53-72-89 line which only outscores it's opponents by 10 goals for the season at 5v5 averaging 17 min a night at 5v5 isn't that different from a Cozens line or Mitts line who outscores the opponents by nearly the same amount of total goals averaging 1 or 2 min less a night at 5v5. (Made up numbers, but you get my point.) I expect Granato will implement a defensive system and set the lines to maximize 5v5 goal differential through the entire lineup.
3) The "debates" about 72-24-37 and where they are best used in the lineup demonstrate how far this team has come. A few seasons ago this team didn't have 4 NHL-caliber centers, let alone potential abundance of skill.
<old man voice> "so quit your bitchin"

 

[Dingo44]

The season cannot start soon enough.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

I'm not totally stuck on any certain line combos. I'm closer to being stuck on the concept of having an effective 3rd line. I don't see Thompson or Cozens being great at carrying a 3rd line with the most likely options at wing that are on the roster (Greenway, Olofsson, Rousek). I'm open for debate on that concept - some may see stacking a top six as the way to go, and just playing a "3rd" line the least minutes possible. I'm hoping we're past that point...if Greenway re-ignites his career and Olofsson plays like he cares about his next contract or becomes defensively competent once Granato actually focuses on team defense. Change up lines however you want, or go with whatever Granato decides...I just think if there is going to be an effective 3rd line that wins the GF/GA battle, Mittelstadt is probably the best C for that job considering that line will probably have at least one defensively weak winger and maybe two.