Speculation: Sabres Roster Speculation - Pre-season 2023 Edition

[MOGlLNY]

I'm so sick of 12 years of cast-off parts that no other teams want or barely wants. The list is long. Eakin, Hagg, Butcher, Dell, Sheehan, Rieder, Irwin, Sobotka, Gilmour,...I could name dozens of dozens of guys. It is amazing how many guys played their last NHL game in Buffalo. One thing exciting about young kids is at least there is a chance they can be good. Or stars. No more has-beens. Nolan Pratt will always be my favourite joke of a Sabre, who everyone told me was solid and got not one NHL offer after Buffalo.

I'm not suggesting that Girgensons isn't a decent player or Jost, but the latter was waived. I don't even know how the Sabres got to $2 M. Okposo at $2.5 million is some type of gift. There is not one other NHL team giving him that money. I like Kyle too, but $42 M over seven very average years -- he's the one who owes Buffalo something. I'll give you Girgensons could get more term, but the $2.5 M was hefty for what he has become.

Call me angry all you want. I've given the Sabres maybe $50K+ in season ticket money for some horrid players.

The time is now. I do not want the future jeopardized with long-term contracts on aging vets, but some better ads with a little tread on the tire would have been nice for 2023-24 one-year deals.

I will say, with the exception of Okposo, there is probably not one player on the roster who is destined to play his last game in Buffalo. That's a good thing. A great thing. Every player on the roster could make another NHL team. First time in years.



Jost was a 10th overall so people get excited. Draft pedigree matters less and less as you go on. It's like your university degree after job experience.

I was saying he was projecting, not you

 

[Irie]

Adams is damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t with a portion of this fanbase.

I consider any off-season somewhat of a success that doesn't involve adding a long-term terrible contract.

Most posters fail to see the many bullets dodged in the Damned if he doesn't scenarios that are definitely positives.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

I consider any off-season somewhat of a success that doesn't involve adding a long-term terrible contract.

Most posters fail to see the many bullets dodged in the Damned if he doesn't scenarios that are definitely positives.

LOL. I get it. The bar is damn low. You wonder why attendance sagged.

I was saying he was projecting, not you

Apologies then

 

[brian_griffin]

Ahhhh, the joys of the pre-internet era when barbecues, patio beers, gardening and gazebos occupied our hockey off-seasons.

 

[Irie]

LOL. I get it. The bar is damn low. You wonder why attendance sagged.

I actually think I am setting the bar extremely high in this regard.

How many GMs spend like drunken sailors on shore leave when the UFA period opens if they have cap? Every year we see a lot of long term, god awful boat anchor contracts given out which torpedos a teams future.

Expecting a GM to restrain their spending is asking a lot in this league.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

I think it is more like "no teams were offering long term deals". Most of the UFAs that signed 1 year deals would have loved to get 5-7 year contracts, but no teams had them on the table.

If you look at the UFA D that signed this offseason, only three of them making over 3 million signed 1 year deals. Ghost, Dumba and Cole.

It was widly reported that Dumba was looking for a long term big money deal and he held out and was left without a chair.

Even 33 year olds Gudas and Schenn both got 3 years. Graves - 6 years. Mayfield - 7 years. Severson - 8 years.

Orlov and Gavrikov went 2 years, but they are seriously overpaid and signed with legitimate playoff teams/cup favorites.

This argument is not about buffalo's internal budget, (every topic does not have to revolve around Kevyn Adams, and yes, there was/likely still is an internal budget for this team currently, but that is irrelevant) - It is strictly about the reality of the UFA market. Top UFAs don't frequently sign in the small markets(players signing in their hometown being the exception). How many high-end UFAs have signed in Buffalo, San Jose, Winnipeg, Ottawa when larger markets are offering similar deals? It doesn't happen often unless they are offering the most money/term. I am willing to bet that a few of the big market teams have signed substantially more premier UFAs alone than those 4 teams combined over the past two decades.

Buffalo's budget matters. A ton. I don't blame Adams. I don't even blame Pegula if he doesn't want to spend. But he opened his big mouth and criticized previous ownership. He should be honest about his plans today, but he never says a peep. This small market excuse wears so thin. Carolina spends. Edmonton is a large market? Pittsburgh? Buffalo was made into a Mickey Mouse franchise UNDER PEGULA and no one wants to come here. Kevyn might be fixing that but if the team embraces that small market philosophy, hockey is doomed in Buffalo. There are 22 teams in the league over or within $1 M of cap. Winnipeg is only $1.5 M under. Winterpeg!

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

You wonder why attendance sagged.

No one is wondering why attendance sagged.

 

[BUCKSHOT]

I'm so sick of 12 years of cast-off parts that no other teams want or barely wants. The list is long. Eakin, Hagg, Butcher, Dell, Sheehan, Rieder, Irwin, Sobotka, Gilmour,...I could name dozens of dozens of guys. It is amazing how many guys played their last NHL game in Buffalo. One thing exciting about young kids is at least there is a chance they can be good. Or stars. No more has-beens. Nolan Pratt will always be my favourite joke of a Sabre, who everyone told me was solid and got not one NHL offer after Buffalo.

I'm not suggesting that Girgensons isn't a decent player or Jost, but the latter was waived. I don't even know how the Sabres got to $2 M. Okposo at $2.5 million is some type of gift. There is not one other NHL team giving him that money. I like Kyle too, but $42 M over seven very average years -- he's the one who owes Buffalo something. I'll give you Girgensons could get more term, but the $2.5 M was hefty for what he has become.

Call me angry all you want. I've given the Sabres maybe $50K+ in season ticket money for some horrid players.

The time is now. I do not want the future jeopardized with long-term contracts on aging vets, but some better ads with a little tread on the tire would have been nice for 2023-24 one-year deals.

I will say, with the exception of Okposo, there is probably not one player on the roster who is destined to play his last game in Buffalo. That's a good thing. A great thing. Every player on the roster could make another NHL team. First time in years.



Jost was a 10th overall so people get excited. Draft pedigree matters less and less as you go on. It's like your university degree after job experience.

quit giving them your money !

If I'm not satisfied with a service or a product, I don't continue purchasing it

seems like common sense to me

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Buffalo's budget matters. A ton. I don't blame Adams. I don't even blame Pegula if he doesn't want to spend. But he opened his big mouth and criticized previous ownership. He should be honest about his plans today, but he never says a peep. This small market excuse wears so thin. Carolina spends. Edmonton is a large market? Pittsburgh? Buffalo was made into a Mickey Mouse franchise UNDER PEGULA and no one wants to come here. Kevyn might be fixing that but if the team embraces that small market philosophy, hockey is doomed in Buffalo. There are 22 teams in the league over or within $1 M of cap. Winnipeg is only $1.5 M under. Winterpeg!

You forgot the part where you can spend money all season. Why have so many hissy fits because it's not being spent by your personal deadline?

 

[alehman42]

I actually think I am setting the bar extremely high in this regard.

How many GMs spend like drunken sailors on shore leave when the UFA period opens if they have cap? Every year we see a lot of long term, god awful boat anchor contracts given out which torpedos a teams future.

Expecting a GM to restrain their spending is asking a lot in this league.

Yep, this.

Reactionary HF posters: Why hasn't Adams addressed the goalie situation?!? Total failure!!!

Me, pointing at the Korpisalo contract: That's why.

quit giving them your money !

If I'm not satisfied with a service or a product, I don't continue to purchasing it

seems like common sense to me

Also, this.

Being called a fair-weather fan is not an insult, but a compliment. Being a fair-weather fan doesn't mean you're disloyal, it means you make smart use of your time and money.

[He says ironically while spending his time posting on a hockey board on Sept 8]

 

[Irie]

Buffalo's budget matters. A ton. I don't blame Adams. I don't even blame Pegula if he doesn't want to spend. But he opened his big mouth and criticized previous ownership. He should be honest about his plans today, but he never says a peep. This small market excuse wears so thin. Carolina spends. Edmonton is a large market? Pittsburgh? Buffalo was made into a Mickey Mouse franchise UNDER PEGULA and no one wants to come here. Kevyn might be fixing that but if the team embraces that small market philosophy, hockey is doomed in Buffalo. There are 22 teams in the league over or within $1 M of cap. Winnipeg is only $1.5 M under. Winterpeg!

But Buffalos internal budget has zero influence over the UFA crop's general desire to sign in small markets. They are totally unrelated.

Until you are a cup contender and have some of the best players in the world on your roster,(McDavid, Crosby, Malkin, Draisaitl...) small market teams will struggle to compete for free agents. Edmonton couldn't keep any of their own UFAs for years, let alone attract other free agents. We will see what happens in the near future with Draisaitl and McDavid, but there is a strong chance Edmonton will be on everyone's NTC lists again in a couple of years.

Who wanted to sign with the Sabres before Pegula? I do not believe the general draw to sign in Buffalo changed very much from 2000 to 2019. (except when a team is tanking and rebilding, sure, that influences things,)

Hopefully the emergence of Dahlin and Power, along with Tuch, Thompson and Cozens will turn some players heads. If UFAs think there is a chance to win in Buffalo and they see that the team is having fun and it looks like a great place to play, some of the small city negatives for young star athletes maybe can be countered, but the team is not there yet.

No high end UFA was signing a one year deal to come to Buffalo this offseason,

 

[Dubi Doo]

quit giving them your money !

If I'm not satisfied with a service or a product, I don't continue purchasing it

seems like common sense to me

Yup. I didn't go to a Sabres game for a few years while Botts was GM. The franchise didn't deserve a dime out of me, which is why I find it a bit surprising @HogtownSabresfan thinks anyone who didn't agree with the article he posted is a homer. I had to be one of the biggest complainers about this team during the past two GMs tenures. I just happen to think Adams is doing a good job of bringing his vision of building a team to fruition (so far, of course...).

As I said, Im cautiously optimistic at this point.

 

[Matt Ress]

Eh FAs are overrated. If you're looking for an A player, you're overpaying in dollars and/or term. B and C players can be had reasonably but you need to get As through trade or your own farm. We all know this.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

Eh FAs are overrated. If you're looking for an A player, you're overpaying in dollars and/or term. B and C players can be had reasonably but you need to get As through trade or your own farm. We all know this.

This player is a free agent, why?

A) he’s not that good and his team knows it
B) he’s bad in the locker
C) his contract demands are crazy
D) he doesn’t like his original team and is only going to chose from a select group
E) his team is against the cap and chose the worst of their best players to move on from

 

[Nikolajs Sillers]

quit giving them your money !

If I'm not satisfied with a service or a product, I don't continue purchasing it

seems like common sense to me

It's like Stockholm Syndrome.

 

[Matt Ress]

This player is a free agent, why?

A) he’s not that good and his team knows it
B) he’s bad in the locker
C) his contract demands are crazy
D) he doesn’t like his original team and is only going to chose from a select group
E) his team is against the cap and chose the worst of their best players to move on from

I don't know man. I don't know who or what you're talking about.

 

[MOGlLNY]

I don't know man. I don't know who or what you're talking about.

He’s agreeing with you

 

[Diaspora]

He’s agreeing with you

Thank you for being the empathic interpreter that this board needs.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

Thank you for being the empathic interpreter that this board needs.

Players don’t become free agents because they hit their ceiling, are willing to take team friendly contracts, and are great leaders and lockerroom personalities. A free agent almost always has warts that the acquiring team is hoping they can overcome.

 

[Matt Ress]

He’s agreeing with you

Almost hit me in the head as it flew by

 

[Matt Ress]

Players don’t become free agents because they hit their ceiling, are willing to take team friendly contracts, and are great leaders and lockerroom personalities. A free agent almost always has warts that the acquiring team is hoping they can overcome.

Agreed. Sorry for being so thick headed.

 

[Djp]

But Buffalos internal budget has zero influence over the UFA crop's general desire to sign in small markets. They are totally unrelated.

Until you are a cup contender and have some of the best players in the world on your roster,(McDavid, Crosby, Malkin, Draisaitl...) small market teams will struggle to compete for free agents. Edmonton couldn't keep any of their own UFAs for years, let alone attract other free agents. We will see what happens in the near future with Draisaitl and McDavid, but there is a strong chance Edmonton will be on everyone's NTC lists again in a couple of years.

Who wanted to sign with the Sabres before Pegula? I do not believe the general draw to sign in Buffalo changed very much from 2000 to 2019. (except when a team is tanking and rebilding, sure, that influences things,)

Hopefully the emergence of Dahlin and Power, along with Tuch, Thompson and Cozens will turn some players heads. If UFAs think there is a chance to win in Buffalo and they see that the team is having fun and it looks like a great place to play, some of the small city negatives for young star athletes maybe can be countered, but the team is not there yet.

No high end UFA was signing a one year deal to come to Buffalo this offseason,

in 2006 after they mad the conf finals run before the D injuries killed things they could have been prime to get players want to come here on cheap contracts.

the problem was the team was too deep where they couldn’t keep their current roster and had to let some walk.

in 2007 we say Drury/ brierre and others walk so there was concern to UFAs

Eh FAs are overrated. If you're looking for an A player, you're overpaying in dollars and/or term. B and C players can be had reasonably but you need to get As through trade or your own farm. We all know this.

Players don’t become free agents because they hit their ceiling, are willing to take team friendly contracts, and are great leaders and lockerroom personalities. A free agent almost always has warts that the acquiring team is hoping they can overcome.

On UFAs there are multiple types that have differences.

1 UFAs who was with the team for much of their careers

some of these a team makes cost factot pr decisions on. Usually they would trade them before but they might hold on to them for a run and see if they can sign thrm to a reasonable contract. With others you weightbthe youth vs thrm and opt for youth

2. those who a team acquired as rentals

these thry used for playoff runs. Some thry might try to sign but it’s up to the UFA.

 

[debaser66]

seems like we are the new hype in town, this is about an Adams but its Jack not Kevyn.

https://thehockeynews.com/news/top-five-candidates-for-the-2023-24-jack-adams-award

 

[joshjull]

Wow....lot of anger there....take a breath...its okay.

Obv Cozens is talented. Donnie alluded to it many times in 21-22 about Vinnie's impact on that line and developing, becoming a professional, work ethic, etc. Think is was buffalo hockey beat, but Im not gonna waste time to find any quotes. Also the athletic article talking about most underrated Sabre, and both Cozens and Krebs said Vinnie (not to mention Tage) talking about his skill and hockey IQ. I will take their opinion over anyone on a forum.

The rest of whatever you were talking about....no clue....nice rant tho.

Back to my point.....Hino > Jost and I don't get the love for Jost on this board.

Vinny has a fantastic work ethic and drive. He along with Okposo, Girgs, Anderson, etc. set a great example for the youngsters on how to be a pro on and off the ice. But the idea he should get 50% of the credit for Cozens' breakout, as @HogtownSabresfan suggests, is pretty silly.

Only Cozens commented on Vinny's hockey IQ in that article. He also said Vinny always makes the right play. He was just being nice. As were all the players in that article commenting on their 11 teammates who got votes for most underrated; Sammy (7), Vinny (3), Dahlin (2), Mitts, (2), Tuch (2), Girgs (2), Jost (1), Boosh (1), Krebs (1), Quinn (1) and Joker (1). It was a praise fest.

The reality is if Vinny actually had a good hockey IQ, he'd be a much better player than he is with the work ethic and speed he already has.

As for Jost vs Vinny........ They were never competing with each other for a spot. Jost was a regular in the starting 12 all season, can play wing/center and is 4 years younger than Vinny. They see Jost as someone with upside left who gives them flexibility at forward.

Vinny was viewed as the 13th forward/depth winger at the start of last season and well before Jost got here. If he lost a spot here to anyone it was Rousek.

 

[Matt Ress]

seems like we are the new hype in town, this is about an Adams but its Jack not Kevyn.

https://thehockeynews.com/news/top-five-candidates-for-the-2023-24-jack-adams-award

I have a long commute and listen to way too much YouTube. There's about a million with high expectations for us and not one I've seen us predicted to take a step back. I don't know the feeling around the city but it's difficult to not get hyped up.