Speculation: Sabres Roster Speculation - Pre-season 2023 Edition

[Nikolajs Sillers]

Okposo - Dahlin - Peterka
Cozens - Olofsson - Tuch
Greenway - Girgensons - Mitts
Boosh - Peterka - Levi

Sammy - Tage
Jost - Joker
Johnson - Clifton
Skinner

Power - 6K - Comrie

You left out Nikki.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

You left out Nikki.

Nikki? I also left out Krebs, but it’s really hard to think of everyone when I’m putting them out of position

 

[OkimLom]

Somehow I can't believe that Adams will still be interested in Pesce. It seems to me that he will not change anything and will just try the experiment with Clifton.

I fully believe Adams would be in on Pesce, but I think the Dahlin and Power contracts are holding up things. I think he wants to get those two locked in and not make any "upgrades" until those guys are set, so that he can focus on the numbers with Pesce to lock him in further, since I would expect Adams to understand he needs to use assets the organization currently has to get this player, and if you're doing so, it's best for the organization to extend him as quickly as possible.

If Adams is in on Pesce, I'd expect him to make a move for him, in say the middle of August. I'm sure Adams would want to check on how "willing" Pesce would want to sign here long term. Of course nothing moves until Carolina wants to move him. A team, that I'm sure doesn't exactly give them great feelings of trading within the conference with.

 

[Jim Bob]

I fully believe Adams would be in on Pesce, but I think the Dahlin and Power contracts are holding up things. I think he wants to get those two locked in and not make any "upgrades" until those guys are set, so that he can focus on the numbers with Pesce to lock him in further, since I would expect Adams to understand he needs to use assets the organization currently has to get this player, and if you're doing so, it's best for the organization to extend him as quickly as possible.

If Adams is in on Pesce, I'd expect him to make a move for him, in say the middle of August. I'm sure Adams would want to check on how "willing" Pesce would want to sign here long term. Of course nothing moves until Carolina wants to move him. A team, that I'm sure doesn't exactly give them great feelings of trading within the conference with.

How many RHD will they fit on the roster with Clifton, EJohnson, Jokiharju, and Lyubushkin already here and Dahlin quite comfortable on the right side?

Pesce made sense before they went out and signed Clifton and EJohnson as UFAs. Now, I do not see how they work things.

To add Pesce, someone who is already here is going to be less than thrilled.

You either split up Samuelsson-Dahlin and move Dahlin to the left side and Samuelsson to the 3rd pair or Clifton is bumped to the 3rd pair and then you either try EJohnson on his offside or he's a regular healthy scratch after signing as a UFA and likely told that he would have a regular role.

 

[Fjordsen]

I fully believe Adams would be in on Pesce, but I think the Dahlin and Power contracts are holding up things. I think he wants to get those two locked in and not make any "upgrades" until those guys are set, so that he can focus on the numbers with Pesce to lock him in further, since I would expect Adams to understand he needs to use assets the organization currently has to get this player, and if you're doing so, it's best for the organization to extend him as quickly as possible.

If Adams is in on Pesce, I'd expect him to make a move for him, in say the middle of August. I'm sure Adams would want to check on how "willing" Pesce would want to sign here long term. Of course nothing moves until Carolina wants to move him. A team, that I'm sure doesn't exactly give them great feelings of trading within the conference with.

I think that train has already left and Adams doesn't look like someone who will make many moves or big moves when he has already signed two RDs.

 

[Gras]

How many RHD will they fit on the roster with Clifton, EJohnson, Jokiharju, and Lyubushkin already here and Dahlin quite comfortable on the right side?

Pesce made sense before they went out and signed Clifton and EJohnson as UFAs. Now, I do not see how they work things.

To add Pesce, someone who is already here is going to be less than thrilled.

You either split up Samuelsson-Dahlin and move Dahlin to the left side and Samuelsson to the 3rd pair or Clifton is bumped to the 3rd pair and then you either try EJohnson on his offside or he's a regular healthy scratch after signing as a UFA and likely told that he would have a regular role.

You would look to move on from Joker and Boosh since that would make EJ the #7 for the season, one of which probably would go back to Carolina.

Or we have a 3 team deal

SJ
Joker
Pick/Prospects

Buf
Pesce

Canes
EK

 

[OkimLom]

How many RHD will they fit on the roster with Clifton, EJohnson, Jokiharju, and Lyubushkin already here and Dahlin quite comfortable on the right side?

Pesce made sense before they went out and signed Clifton and EJohnson as UFAs. Now, I do not see how they work things.

To add Pesce, someone who is already here is going to be less than thrilled.

You either split up Samuelsson-Dahlin and move Dahlin to the left side and Samuelsson to the 3rd pair or Clifton is bumped to the 3rd pair and then you either try EJohnson on his offside or he's a regular healthy scratch after signing as a UFA and likely told that he would have a regular role.

I mean, I'm not against "upgrading" the 3rd pairing defense pairing by spreading out the talent that's on the team. It's not a problem to have Samuelsson playing on a "3rd pairing" when that 3rd pairing can now be trusted more to be played more. As someone that was on the "our 2nd and 3rd pairing needs to be improved" train, being able to spread out quality talent among the lineup while not losing a gap in talent with the rest of the forwards should be a goal of the team. We shouldn't be focusing on improving our top 4 D, we should be looking to improving our top 6.

At the same time, I've also painted a hypothetical situation, I didn't say he was for certain. I think he was on Pesce, because I think any competent GM should be on the guy.

 

[Irie]

All this Pesce talk, but it sounds like he has no interest in leaving Carolina, and with a 16 team NTC, it is unlikely he is going anywhere.

Just off the top of my head, I think his 15 team list probably looks something like this:

Boston
Tampa
Florida
Devils
Rangers
Islanders
Jackets
Avalanche
Flames
Wild
Predators
Blues
Golden Knights
Stars
Kings.

By refusing to waive, he'd be forcing the teams on the list to give up substantial assets to acquire and keep him, they would not be able to facilitate a trade as a pass through destination, and would be looking at having him on their roster for the year until he is a UFA and demanding a large contract. I don't think any team on that list would have him as a priority to move a large package for given their current lineups and/or cap situations.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

All this Pesce talk, but it sounds like he has no interest in leaving Carolina, and with a 16 team NTC, it is unlikely he is going anywhere.

Just off the top of my head, I think his 15 team list probably looks something like this:

Boston
Tampa
Florida
Devils
Rangers
Islanders
Jackets
Avalanche
Flames
Wild
Predators
Blues
Golden Knights
Stars
Kings.

By refusing to waive, he'd be forcing the teams on the list to give up substantial assets to acquire and keep him, they would not be able to facilitate a trade as a pass through destination, and would be looking at having him on their roster for the year until he is a UFA and demanding a large contract. I don't think any team on that list would have him as a priority to move a large package for given their current lineups and/or cap situations.

I think Pesce is exactly what this team needs and I'd pretty much do anything to land him. At the same time, being rejected by a UFA is a blessing 92% of the time. I find it hard to get too upset about losing out on the chance to sign him to a contract until he's 39, or whatever it is.

 

[Jim Bob]

You would look to move on from Joker and Boosh since that would make EJ the #7 for the season, one of which probably would go back to Carolina.

Or we have a 3 team deal

SJ
Joker
Pick/Prospects

Buf
Pesce

Canes
EK

Carolina does not have the cap space for that to work.

Carolina may have to move both Skjei and Pesce for Karlsson and then SJ has to find teams to take those two on for futures/young NHLers.

 

[Gras]

Carolina does not have the cap space for that to work.

Carolina may have to move both Skjei and Pesce for Karlsson and then SJ has to find teams to take those two on for futures/young NHLers.

SJ retain 2.5mil and have someone like CHI retain 2.5mil, with Pesce moving out and the rest of their available cap space EK fits, CAR has a bunch of expiring contracts , they could end up walking away from Skjei next summer as well since he is a year older than Pesce depending on his contract ask.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

All this Pesce talk, but it sounds like he has no interest in leaving Carolina, and with a 16 team NTC, it is unlikely he is going anywhere.

Just off the top of my head, I think his 15 team list probably looks something like this:

Boston
Tampa
Florida
Devils
Rangers
Islanders
Jackets
Avalanche
Flames
Wild
Predators
Blues
Golden Knights
Stars
Kings.

By refusing to waive, he'd be forcing the teams on the list to give up substantial assets to acquire and keep him, they would not be able to facilitate a trade as a pass through destination, and would be looking at having him on their roster for the year until he is a UFA and demanding a large contract. I don't think any team on that list would have him as a priority to move a large package for given their current lineups and/or cap situations.

Just curious, why would the jackets be on that list? A bottom feeder team with a coach that players hate...is he a conservative guy or something? Especially since they're i the metro with carolina.

I'm not sure why the flames would be on anyone's list right now either. I'd replace those two with two of seattle/washington/pittsburgh.

 

[Irie]

Just curious, why would the jackets be on that list? A bottom feeder team with a coach that players hate...is he a conservative guy or something? Especially since they're i the metro with carolina.

I'm not sure why the flames would be on anyone's list right now either. I'd replace those two with two of seattle/washington/pittsburgh.

This is the list of teams that Pesce will allow a trade to. His list is not a no-trade list. it is a ok-to-trade-to list, even though they are callled no-trade lists.

I do not see any reason why the Bluejackets would give up substantial assets for Pesce when they are up against the cap and have 30M+ tied up in Werenski, Provorov, Severson, Gudbranson, Peeke, Boqvist, Blankenburg and Bean, with Jiricek knocking on the door.

Remember, Pesce's goal here is to NOT get traded. The best way to avoid a trade is to put teams that have zero interest in giving up a big package to acquire you

Flames are in the same boat.

Pittsburgh, Seattle (if arbitration goes south with Dunn) and Washington would likely be happy to acquire Pesce, so having them on his ok to trade to list is a good way to give Carolina an avenue to move him.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

This is the list of teams that Pesce will allow a trade to. His list is not a no-trade list. it is a ok-to-trade-to list, even though they are callled no-trade lists.

I do not see any reason why the Bluejackets would give up substantial assets for Pesce when they are up against the cap and have 30M+ tied up in Werenski, Provorov, Severson, Gudbranson, Peeke, Boqvist, Blankenburg and Bean, with Jiricek knocking on the door.

Remember, Pesce's goal here is to NOT get traded. The best way to avoid a trade is to put teams that have zero interest in giving up a big package to acquire you

Flames are in the same boat.

Pittsburgh, Seattle (if arbitration goes south with Dunn) and Washington would likely be happy to acquire Pesce, so having them on his ok to trade to list is a good way to give Carolina an avenue to move him.

I think there are teams he’d actually want to go to, and sign long term. If he didn’t want to get traded, all he has to do it make it clear he doesn’t want to sign an extension with anyone. Then he’d only be worth rental prices, and Carolina would probably prefer to rent him themselves.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

I think there are teams he’d actually want to go to, and sign long term. If he didn’t want to get traded, all he has to do it make it clear he doesn’t want to sign an extension with anyone. Then he’d only be worth rental prices, and Carolina would probably prefer to rent him themselves.

There are definitely teams he’d accept a trade to, but they can’t fit him in. Both this season or long term. In conversations I’ve had with his dad, he’s not against being traded to the Sabres. There’s just too many questions about the long term ability to contend, because of opposing GMs.

Brett knows the organizational depth, but thinks they won’t be able to take the next step because GMs will refuse to trade with the team in an attempt to get them to overpay.

Aka they’re already seen as contenders, and teams wanna tire iron their knees before they get a chance to show that.

 

[beerme1]

Why would Granato be willing to give him reps on the opposite side tho? Where is the evidence of that? Not saying it doesn't exist I don't know if he can do that or not. If your evidence is "well Granato shuffled the forwards around maybe he'll put Joki on his opposite side." thats not enough for me to feel comfortable with that Idea.

I was well aware of how little the Boosh-Stillman pair played... In fact my argument was that they should've played more mins. You said Donny doesn't trust them and provided there O-zone faceoffs % compared to there D-zone faceoffs %. I was arguing that Donny's usage of them was unjust for I thought they played well and deserved more mins.

I said EJ has a longer leash then Joki... no idea where you're getting the top 4 thing from.

My original comment was Joki "was a lost cause." and I retracted that comment because that was unfair to say. I still think his days are numbered based off of the additions adams has made and I feel like Joki has the most value over Boosh. If he stays and is a #7/8 guy or just flat out impresses at camp and earns a spot in the line up, totally fine with me but until then, my opinion still stands.

Dude, you stepped out with clear intentions. Let it go.

 

[Jim Bob]

SJ retain 2.5mil and have someone like CHI retain 2.5mil, with Pesce moving out and the rest of their available cap space EK fits, CAR has a bunch of expiring contracts , they could end up walking away from Skjei next summer as well since he is a year older than Pesce depending on his contract ask.

I doubt Carolina wants to pay the freight for two teams to retain $2.5M for four seasons. That will not be cheap given the four years remaining on Karlsson's deal. Plus, the SJ owner reportedly is not happy with the return they got while retaining over $2.5M on Burns. So, he expects a huge trade package if they are retaining on Karlsson for four years. And Chicago would likely want a 1st for retaining $2.5M for four years.

Good luck figuring out how that all works, IMO.

 

[Ace]

Let’s check in on Adams big summer. The one I was promised he would finally make the necessary moves after doing nothing last year

Which NHL teams have improved the most this offseason? Rating all 32 teams

From most value added to least, rating each team based on whether they have more talent than they did at the start of the offseason.

theathletic.com

Anyone want to make me a promise about next year?

 

[TehDoak]

Let’s check in on Adams big summer. The one I was promised he would finally make the necessary moves after doing nothing last year

Which NHL teams have improved the most this offseason? Rating all 32 teams

From most value added to least, rating each team based on whether they have more talent than they did at the start of the offseason.

theathletic.com

Anyone want to make me a promise about next year?

Out: No one

This is a growing trend for Adams. He can't seem to turnover a forward group that has obvious issues. He can't move out d-men even though he's carrying 9 currently.

We need someone who can manage a NHL roster.

Adams hasn't shown that ability in his 4th offseason now.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Let’s check in on Adams big summer. The one I was promised he would finally make the necessary moves after doing nothing last year

Which NHL teams have improved the most this offseason? Rating all 32 teams

From most value added to least, rating each team based on whether they have more talent than they did at the start of the offseason.

theathletic.com

Anyone want to make me a promise about next year?

I think they Sabres clearly had two big wants, a top 4 defensmen and then a leader on the bottom pairing. And they got those two needs met.

I do think they had some secondary targets at forward and goalie, and didnt pull those off. Maybe we something yet, but I don’t think so.

You also have to remember they acquired Greenway and Stillman last year with this season clearly in mind.

This is a growing trend for Adams. He can't seem to turnover a forward group that has obvious issues. He can't move out d-men even though he's carrying 9 currently.

We need someone who can manage a NHL roster.

Adams hasn't shown that ability in his 4th offseason now.

I don’t think the part of the off-season where teams shed extras has fully started yet. Which makes sense, with injuries, no need to do that in June and July

 

[Fjordsen]

Let’s check in on Adams big summer. The one I was promised he would finally make the necessary moves after doing nothing last year

Which NHL teams have improved the most this offseason? Rating all 32 teams

From most value added to least, rating each team based on whether they have more talent than they did at the start of the offseason.

theathletic.com

Anyone want to make me a promise about next year?

This is a growing trend for Adams. He can't seem to turnover a forward group that has obvious issues. He can't move out d-men even though he's carrying 9 currently.

We need someone who can manage a NHL roster.

Adams hasn't shown that ability in his 4th offseason now.

Adams seems to be constantly afraid to spend some assets. We have obvious needs for several seasons (goalie and top 4 D) and he still does nothing. If the team doesn't make the playoffs again next season because of this, I'd rather see someone more aggressive than Adams as the GM. Adams could become POHO, and someone like Karmanos, Ventura or Tulsky GM.

 

[Zman5778]

Adams seems to be constantly afraid to spend some assets. We have obvious needs for several seasons (goalie and top 4 D) and he still does nothing.

It's not like there's a ton of trading happening around the NHL. What's happened since the start of Free Agency? The DeBrincat deal and whole lot of nothing. No one is moving anything.

 

[Fjordsen]

It's not like there's a ton of trading happening around the NHL. What's happened since the start of Free Agency? The DeBrincat deal and whole lot of nothing. No one is moving anything.

I don't mean just now, last season, a few years ago we needed goalie after Linus gone. For now, Adams hasn't done too much for optimism next season. Hopefully Clifton works in the top 4, but he's still a wild card for the role. Goalies are the same, the attack is the same and we lost Quinn to injury. If Adams ends up doing nothing (I wouldn't be surprised), it won't look good.

 

[Dubi Doo]

Let’s check in on Adams big summer. The one I was promised he would finally make the necessary moves after doing nothing last year

Which NHL teams have improved the most this offseason? Rating all 32 teams

From most value added to least, rating each team based on whether they have more talent than they did at the start of the offseason.

theathletic.com

Anyone want to make me a promise about next year?

I'd call revamping the defense a necessary move. It's odd that posters overlook that.

I'd like another forward + a quality starter. Another forward could be had. A quality starter is much harded to find.

 

[TehDoak]

It's not like there's a ton of trading happening around the NHL. What's happened since the start of Free Agency? The DeBrincat deal and whole lot of nothing. No one is moving anything.

I don't mean just now, last season, a few years ago we needed goalie after Linus gone. For now, Adams hasn't done too much for optimism next season. Hopefully Clifton works in the top 4, but he's still a wild card for the role. Goalieas are the same, the attack is the same and we lost Quinn to injury. If Adams ends up doing nothing (I wouldn't be surprised), it won't look good.

As @Fjordy said, it's been multiple seasons of inability to address issues. There is zero reason for us to have taken as many picks as we have. We don't need to go all Tim Murray and set them on fire...but we have more prospects than we can reasonably develop at this point.