Speculation: Sabres Roster Speculation - Pre-season 2023 Edition

[tsujimoto74]

I have COVID and haven’t been awake most of the day.

That’s how my body reacted to Covid when I had it, too. Slept for the better part of 3 days. Hope you’re back to normal soon!

 

[The Blunder Years]

Trying to think of who the next impact power forward could be. Adams should buy now while the price is low. Ideas?

Maybe the answer has been under our noses this whole time… Brett Murray.

Also let’s see what a full season of Donny G does for Greenway. He has the tools to be an impactful power forward

 

[BFLO]

Risk is the kind way to put the goalie plan.

Malfeasance is more accurate.

We have an organization that can afford known but opts for hope instead.

You believe Levi will do what no one ever does? Fine. Most teams wouldn’t but all of them would, at least, partner him with a known. They opt to hope that UPL does something he hasn’t done since juniors. Play goalie well.

We needed a known top 4 D who can play big minutes…proven to play big minutes. They hope Clifton can do it Instead.

We have nine D and people are on his board advocating for Joker, who is trash, to play on the third pair. Because they hope he can do it. playing on the opposite side. Based on nothing in his actual game…but they hope.

Quinn is out for half the year and who knows how long until he’s right after that…game shape and all. Are they hoping that their worst forward will somehow fill in in a bigger role? Are they hoping a kid steps up to do it? They sure didnt acquire a known.

There’s a lot of reasons they got to 12 years in the playoff drought when no team in history has done so. The above is the reason they’ll get to 13. Their entire plan is based on hope and ifs. Any other organization has what we have to work with…they‘re building a winner. Not hoping for one.

This is what you get when there is no organizational standard and no consequences for failure.

I'm not at this level of histrionics.

But I do think it's bad our 3 goalies have a combined 100 NHL games played between them. (Comrie 47, UPL 46, Levi 7)

And I would have liked a proven top 4D.

And I would have also liked a re-tool of the bottom 6, rather than a run back. There were lots of upgrades available, some still are available.

Re: NCAA goalie direct to NHL development path

 

[KrakenSabresMike]

Maybe the answer has been under our noses this whole time… Brett Murray.

Also let’s see what a full season of Donny G does for Greenway. He has the tools to be an impactful power forward

Wahlberg is that guy ( and maybe poltapov)

 

[joshjull]

Mental gymnastic? I argued that I doubt Joki will play the bottom pair on his offside. Your response to that comment was..
"I don’t think Donny cares about handidness. From that recent Athletic interview……….."

You put in a quote where Donny is talking about putting LHD on there offside...which helps my argument that a RHD is gonna have to sit. As of right now we have 4. Based off that quote, sounds like Samuelsson and Dahlin are still a pair. Clifton is most likely going to play with Power. If that fails, then EJ probably gets a shot with Power pushing Clifton down to the 3rd pair.

I assumed you read the Athletic article that quote came from. If you hadn’t, thats a mistake on my part. That quote was in middle of a very long answer to a question about Quinn’s injury impacting the lines.

Paraphrasing Granato’s answer —> He doesn’t have the lines locked in place in his mind because he feels it’s limiting and saying “this is the best we can be”, when he’s thinking “I want to get better and better”. That some say we have one of the best lines in Skinner/Tage/Tuch. But can changes to it to might make us better, have a better forward group? That the top line wasn’t intended to be together forever and we saw why at the end of the season with Mitts stepping in and they were prolific (his words not mine).

He said he’s not changing his philosophy and wants everyone to be able to play with everyone because injuries will happen. He wants to have flexibility and options. That different combo provide him with different options as well as challenges for the opponent. Hence Tage on one line and Tuch on another (again, his words not mine). You’ll see us do that on the defensive side……

This is where the quote about the LHD dmen comes in. The point being is he’s going to do whats best for the team even if he has the pieces to do the expected or the “norm” (like with the top line). If guys need to get a new spot in the lineup they may not be comfortable with, then give them reps to get comfortable (Like with the LHD).

Granato then follows the dmen stuff with “So line combinations with and without Jack, in my mind is no different.” Then ends his answer talking about Jack for a few lines.


The theme throughout the article and his answer to this question is that Granato is willing to try anyone anywhere if he feels it can make the team better. That he wants a lot of flexibility and options. Thats why I posted Granato’s not a coach remotely worried about handedness. I posted the quote from the article because Granato is using it as an example of this theme. It wasn’t him laying out the pairings.

The reason you doubt Joker will play the left side on the bottom pairing is because you don’t want it to happen. Not because it’s not possible or likely. There really is no logical underpinning to the idea that a coach with Granato’s mentality would be against it.


EDIT: I hope you don’t mind that I wanted to answer this separate from the rest of your post.

 

[Matt Ress]

I assumed you read the Athletic article that quote came from. If you hadn’t, thats a mistake on my part. That quote was in middle of a very long answer to a question about Quinn’s injury impacting the lines.

Paraphrasing Granato’s answer —> He doesn’t have the lines locked in place in his mind because he feels it’s limiting and saying “this is the best we can be”, when he’s thinking “I want to get better and better”. That some say we have one of the best lines in Skinner/Tage/Tuch. But can changes to it to might make us better, have a better forward group? That the top line wasn’t intended to be together forever and we saw why at the end of the season with Mitts stepping in and they were prolific (his words not mine).

He said he’s not changing his philosophy and wants everyone to be able to play with everyone because injuries will happen. He wants to have flexibility and options. That different combo provide him with different options as well as challenges for the opponent. Hence Tage on one line and Tuch on another (again, his words not mine). You’ll see us do that on the defensive side……

This is where the quote about the LHD dmen comes in. The point being is he’s going to do whats best for the team even if he has the pieces to do the expected or the “norm” (like with the top line). If guys need to get a new spot in the lineup they may not be comfortable with, then give them reps to get comfortable (Like with the LHD).

Granato then follows the dmen stuff with “So line combinations with and without Jack, in my mind is no different.” Then ends his answer talking about Jack for a few lines.


The theme throughout the article and his answer to this question is that Granato is willing to try anyone anywhere if he feels it can make the team better. That he wants a lot of flexibility and options. Thats why I posted Granato’s not a coach remotely worried about handedness. I posted the quote from the article because Granato is using it as an example of this theme. It wasn’t him laying out the pairings.

The reason you doubt Joker will play the left side on the bottom pairing is because you don’t want it to happen. Not because it’s not possible or likely. There really is no logical underpinning to the idea that a coach with Granato’s mentality would be against it.


EDIT: I hope you don’t mind that I wanted to answer this separate from the rest of your post.

So, it is possible that the top line gets shaken up and even possible that, gasp, Mitts ends up between skinny and Tuch. Not directed at you per say. A little salty but I'm glad the coaching staff and FO is more open minded than some of us.

 

[CaliSabresfan24]

I assumed you read the Athletic article that quote came from. If you hadn’t, thats a mistake on my part. That quote was in middle of a very long answer to a question about Quinn’s injury impacting the lines.

Paraphrasing Granato’s answer —> He doesn’t have the lines locked in place in his mind because he feels it’s limiting and saying “this is the best we can be”, when he’s thinking “I want to get better and better”. That some say we have one of the best lines in Skinner/Tage/Tuch. But can changes to it to might make us better, have a better forward group? That the top line wasn’t intended to be together forever and we saw why at the end of the season with Mitts stepping in and they were prolific (his words not mine).

He said he’s not changing his philosophy and wants everyone to be able to play with everyone because injuries will happen. He wants to have flexibility and options. That different combo provide him with different options as well as challenges for the opponent. Hence Tage on one line and Tuch on another (again, his words not mine). You’ll see us do that on the defensive side……

This is where the quote about the LHD dmen comes in. The point being is he’s going to do whats best for the team even if he has the pieces to do the expected or the “norm” (like with the top line). If guys need to get a new spot in the lineup they may not be comfortable with, then give them reps to get comfortable (Like with the LHD).

Granato then follows the dmen stuff with “So line combinations with and without Jack, in my mind is no different.” Then ends his answer talking about Jack for a few lines.


The theme throughout the article and his answer to this question is that Granato is willing to try anyone anywhere if he feels it can make the team better. That he wants a lot of flexibility and options. Thats why I posted Granato’s not a coach remotely worried about handedness. I posted the quote from the article because Granato is using it as an example of this theme. It wasn’t him laying out the pairings.

The reason you doubt Joker will play the left side on the bottom pairing is because you don’t want it to happen. Not because it’s not possible or likely. There really is no logical underpinning to the idea that a coach with Granato’s mentality would be against it.


EDIT: I hope you don’t mind that I wanted to answer this separate from the rest of your post.

I didn't read the article for I don't subscribe to The Athletic anymore so I was just going off of the quote you provided. I don't doubt Granato is open to trying different things to make the team better. I actually liked what he did with the lines at the end of the season (separating Tuch and Tage) and wouldn't mind him starting the season with the same lines since Quinn will be out. But I think its a stretch to take Granato's words and come away with "Joki can play his opposite side." What evidence is there that he can play his opposite side? What's that take based off of is what I'm questioning. I've never seen him do it and I don't see him thriving in the situation nor do I think that will make the team better IMO.

Look we're just going in circles. Your set in your opinion and I'm set in my. I still think he's going to be the odd man out. And if he stays, completely blows the doors off at training camp and earns a spot, I'll gladly eat crow and admit you were right and I was wrong but until then, my opinion still stands.

 

[joshjull]

Joki or Clague are not ideal partners for Power, I think we both can agree with that. Would they be "fine"? ehhhh I don't think so especially since we just added Johnson and Clifton.

Didn’t argue they were. I was talking about specific usages they would be successful in. Like the niche they found for Clague last season. He was the only depth dman to play decent minutes 5v5 (14:40).

As for the moving the goalpost comment... I hope you're aware I'm talking about ERIK Johnson.... not Ryan Johnson... unless you think they're going to waive EJ and send him to Roch?

Why would I assume you meant Erik Johnson when he hasn’t played top 4 minutes since the 19-20 season. He was 7th in 5v5 atoi for the Avs the last two seasons. He‘s also had some pretty rough injuries the last few years costing him games.

Adams didn't trade for Joki. Adams signs Erik Johnson and Clifton, so one of Boosh and Joki are most likely going to be moved and the other will sit. I'd assume Joki has more value due to his age and team control so I feel he's the most likely of the two to be moved out...

Saying he’ll get trading because Adam’s didn’t acquired him is grasping.

I could see him getting traded because he has by far the most value outside of what I think will be 5 of the starting 6.(Dahlin, Power, Sammy, Clifton+ E.Johnson). But it would be in a trade to upgrade the team, like part of a Pesce deal. It wouldn’t be just to trade him, that would be terrible asset management. I have faith Adams is smarter than that.

Look man, you and I aren't seeing eye to eye. I have my opinion and you have yours and thats fine. If Joki isn't moved, shows up and has a great training camp out playing one of EJ and Clifton, then I'll gladly eat crow but where the team stands right now, he looks like the odd man out... And I don't think thats an outlandish take.

The probelm here is your framing of this is wrong. Joker wouldn’t be battling Clifton or E.Johnson for a spot. He’d be battling Stillman.

 

[CaliSabresfan24]

Didn’t argue they were. I was talking about specific usages they would be successful in. Like the niche they found for Clague last season. He was the only depth dman to play decent minutes 5v5 (14:40).

Why would I assume you meant Erik Johnson when he hasn’t played top 4 minutes since the 19-20 season. He was 7th in 5v5 atoi for the Avs the last two seasons. He‘s also had some pretty rough injuries the last few years costing him games.

Saying he’ll get trading because Adam’s didn’t acquired him is grasping.

I could see him getting traded because he has by far the most value outside of what I think will be 5 of the starting 6.(Dahlin, Power, Sammy, Clifton+ E.Johnson). But it would be in a trade to upgrade the team, like part of a Pesce deal. It wouldn’t be just to trade him, that would be terrible asset management. I have faith Adams is smarter than that.

The probelm here is your framing of this is wrong. Joker wouldn’t be battling Clifton or E.Johnson for a spot. He’d be battling Stillman.

Ok man I can't respond to all of this nor do I really want to anymore..

Ultimately, neither of us know what the plans for Joki, whether he's on the team or who he has to beat out for a spot on the top 6. I've shared how I felt about him and what I think is best for the team you don't agree and that's fine. Lets just end it with we'll see what happens at training camp.

Go ahead and reply if you want but I am done going back and forth with you about this topic.

 

[joshjull]

I didn't read the article for I don't subscribe to The Athletic anymore so I was just going off of the quote you provided. I don't doubt Granato is open to trying different things to make the team better. I actually liked what he did with the lines at the end of the season (separating Tuch and Tage) and wouldn't mind him starting the season with the same lines since Quinn will be out. But I think its a stretch to take Granato's words and come away with "Joki can play his opposite side." What evidence is there that he can play his opposite side?What's that take based off of is what I'm questioning. I've never seen him do it and I don't see him thriving in the situation nor do I think that will make the team better IMO.

You're taking issue with an argument I didn’t make. I didn’t argue he would excel on the left side. The argument I have been making repeatedly, and the evidence supports, is that Granato would be willing to give him a chance and the reps to get comfortable there. Like he’s done that with Tage at center, Mitts on the wing, the example he used of the LHD, etc. Those are examples that worked. Others haven’t worked like Krebs on the wing Or even Joker in the top 4.

What a shocker, you don’t see him thriving on the left side.

Look we're just going in circles. You’re set in your opinion and I'm set in my. I still think he's going to be the odd man out. And if he stays, completely blows the doors off at training camp and earns a spot, I'll gladly eat crow and admit you were right and I was wrong but until then, my opinion still stands.

No, what’s actually going on as you came in hot at the start with an opinion based largely on ignorance. Like having no idea Stillman/Boosh played is little as they did or in every easy sheltered minutes. Or that E.Johnson hasn’t played top 4 minutes in several years. As I’ve informed you of these things, your opinion keeps shifting and the goal posts move. No it’s whittled down to he’s the odd man out.

I have nuanced take, where I recognize Joker can be beat out for starting 6 spot and didn’t claim he was a lock. Just that he would start ahead of the others and have that advantage to start camp. I also see him sticking around even if he gets beat out for a starting 6 spot. We need depth and it wouldn’t make absolutely no sense to move on from him just to do It.

Whereas you’re absolutist that has now moved to the idea he has no place here and needs to go. A position that makes no sense. We need depth and unless we trade him to add a roster piece, it wouldn’t be very smart to just unload him.

I’m really baffled by your hard on for him. You’re normally one of the more levelheaded posters. But you have quite an irrational dislike , bordering on hate, for Joker. I don’t get it.

 

[Djp]

Didn’t argue they were. I was talking about specific usages they would be successful in. Like the niche they found for Clague last season. He was the only depth dman to play decent minutes 5v5 (14:40).

Why would I assume you meant Erik Johnson when he hasn’t played top 4 minutes since the 19-20 season. He was 7th in 5v5 atoi for the Avs the last two seasons. He‘s also had some pretty rough injuries the last few years costing him games.

Saying he’ll get trading because Adam’s didn’t acquired him is grasping.

I could see him getting traded because he has by far the most value outside of what I think will be 5 of the starting 6.(Dahlin, Power, Sammy, Clifton+ E.Johnson). But it would be in a trade to upgrade the team, like part of a Pesce deal. It wouldn’t be just to trade him, that would be terrible asset management. I have faith Adams is smarter than that.

The probelm here is your framing of this is wrong. Joker wouldn’t be battling Clifton or E.Johnson for a spot. He’d be battling Stillman.

ithink if Joker is traded it would be to get another top 4 D or a forwzrd with term beyongpd 1 yr.

hes arb eligible next summer and a UFS in 2025. How much would h be asking for. I think it’s more than buffalo wants to give.

he is 24 to start next year so he’s still young And has trade value. If he’s retained at 50% it’s more.

 

[CaliSabresfan24]

You're taking issue with an argument I didn’t make. I didn’t argue he would excel on the left side. The argument I have been making repeatedly, and the evidence supports, is that Granato would be willing to give him a chance and the reps to get comfortable there. Like he’s done that with Tage at center, Mitts on the wing, the example he used of the LHD, etc. Those are examples that worked. Others haven’t worked like Krebs on the wing Or even Joker in the top 4.

What a shocker, you don’t see him thriving on the left side.


No, what’s actually going on as you came in hot at the start with an opinion based largely on ignorance. Like having no idea Stillman/Boosh played is little as they did or in every easy sheltered minutes. Or that E.Johnson hasn’t played top 4 minutes in several years. As I’ve informed you of these things, your opinion keeps shifting and the goal posts move. No it’s whittled down to he’s the odd man out.

I have nuanced take, where I recognize Joker can be beat out for starting 6 spot and didn’t claim he was a lock. Just that he would start ahead of the others and have that advantage to start camp. I also see him sticking around even if he gets beat out for a starting 6 spot. We need depth and it wouldn’t make absolutely no sense to move on from him just to do It.

Whereas you’re absolutist that has now moved to the idea he has no place here and needs to go. A position that makes no sense. We need depth and unless we trade him to add a roster piece, it wouldn’t be very smart to just unload him.

I’m really baffled by your hard on for him. You’re normally one of the more levelheaded posters. But you have quite an irrational dislike , bordering on hate, for Joker. I don’t get it.

Why would Granato be willing to give him reps on the opposite side tho? Where is the evidence of that? Not saying it doesn't exist I don't know if he can do that or not. If your evidence is "well Granato shuffled the forwards around maybe he'll put Joki on his opposite side." thats not enough for me to feel comfortable with that Idea.

I was well aware of how little the Boosh-Stillman pair played... In fact my argument was that they should've played more mins. You said Donny doesn't trust them and provided there O-zone faceoffs % compared to there D-zone faceoffs %. I was arguing that Donny's usage of them was unjust for I thought they played well and deserved more mins.

I said EJ has a longer leash then Joki... no idea where you're getting the top 4 thing from.

My original comment was Joki "was a lost cause." and I retracted that comment because that was unfair to say. I still think his days are numbered based off of the additions adams has made and I feel like Joki has the most value over Boosh. If he stays and is a #7/8 guy or just flat out impresses at camp and earns a spot in the line up, totally fine with me but until then, my opinion still stands.

 

[nickdawg95]

anyone can play anywhere, donny g style

Greenway-TT-Krebs
Skinner-Mitts-Tuch
Girgs-cozens-Peterka
Oloffson-jost-okposo

Dahlin-clifton
Samuelson-bush
johnson/Jokiharju-power

 

[MarkusKetterer]

anyone can play anywhere, donny g style

Greenway-TT-Krebs
Skinner-Mitts-Tuch
Girgs-cozens-Peterka
Oloffson-jost-okposo

Dahlin-clifton
Samuelson-bush
johnson/Jokiharju-power

Okposo - Dahlin - Peterka
Cozens - Olofsson - Tuch
Greenway - Girgensons - Mitts
Boosh - Peterka - Levi

Sammy - Tage
Jost - Joker
Johnson - Clifton
Skinner

Power - 6K - Comrie

 

[Dingo44]

Five teams that could (or should) be interested in Brett Pesce

Pesce’s been relied on as a shutdown defenseman for years with the Hurricanes. There should be teams taking a risk on him this offseason.

theathletic.com

Buffalo Sabres
The Sabres already addressed the right side of their blue line this summer by signing Connor Clifton and Erik Johnson. So at this point, Pesce is less of a need and more of a luxury. That doesn’t take them out of the mix, entirely, though.

If management wants to keep both Rasmus Dahlin and Owen Power on their natural side and take their blue line up a notch further, someone like Pesce could be an ideal top-four righty. He and Clifton could balance out the Dahlin and Power pairings, or he could take on a total shutdown role with Mattias Samuelson against top competition to free up their two stars. Pesce would be a plus on their penalty kill, as well. The remaining RHD (Johnson, Henri Jokiharju and Ilya Lyubushkin) could rotate in and provide some injury support this upcoming year. And there’s room for a long-term future with Pesce, especially with Johnson and Lyubushkin becoming UFAs next summer.

The Sabres would only be better with a player like Pesce on their roster. But while Buffalo has trade assets and cap space, it still needs to exercise caution with long-term contracts to avoid overextending itself before its playoff window officially opens.

 

[zenthusiast]

Five teams that could (or should) be interested in Brett Pesce

Pesce’s been relied on as a shutdown defenseman for years with the Hurricanes. There should be teams taking a risk on him this offseason.

theathletic.com

Mostly agreed but I think that playoff window is open now. They missed by a nose hair with major holes. It’s time to invest and believe in the guys

 

[Jim Bob]

Five teams that could (or should) be interested in Brett Pesce

Pesce’s been relied on as a shutdown defenseman for years with the Hurricanes. There should be teams taking a risk on him this offseason.

theathletic.com

The challenge I see is coming up with a win now trade package for Carolina as Pesce for futures isn't likely to move the needle for the Canes.

Plus, they have three other big money pending UFAs. I find it curious that the guy that makes the least right now and the one that plays the premium position is the one with the most trade smoke around him.

 

[Beerz]

The challenge I see is coming up with a win now trade package for Carolina as Pesce for futures isn't likely to move the needle for the Canes.

Plus, they have three other big money pending UFAs. I find it curious that the guy that makes the least right now and the one that plays the premium position is the one with the most trade smoke around him.

A futures package would absolutely be beneficial for Canes... the package could be used to accomplish a Karlsson trade or replace assets used in a Karlsson trade.

And if Pesce is unwilling to take a team friendly deal it shouldn't be curious at all as to why all this smoke exists

 

[Jim Bob]

A futures package would absolutely be beneficial for Canes... the package could be used to accomplish a Karlsson trade or replace assets used in a Karlsson trade.

And if Pesce is unwilling to take a team friendly deal it shouldn't be curious at all as to why all this smoke exists

Given their cap issues moving forward, I don't see why they would trade for Karlsson. It would make a tough cap situation even tougher.

 

[Beerz]

Given their cap issues moving forward, I don't see why they would trade for Karlsson. It would make a tough cap situation even tougher.

Well it's pretty undeniable that they have been in on Karlsson for weeks.

 

[Jim Bob]

Well it's pretty undeniable that they have been in on Karlsson for weeks.

I think the hold up is SJ's owner and his unwillingness to retain enough to make a deal happen. And I don't know if that will change.

Carolina has $2.5M in cap space and Karlsson's cap hit is $11.5M.

That $9M+ overage is not going to be an easy hurdle to overcome to make a deal happen.

Pesce is only $4M.

 

[Fjordsen]

Five teams that could (or should) be interested in Brett Pesce

Pesce’s been relied on as a shutdown defenseman for years with the Hurricanes. There should be teams taking a risk on him this offseason.

theathletic.com

Somehow I can't believe that Adams will still be interested in Pesce. It seems to me that he will not change anything and will just try the experiment with Clifton.

 

[Beerz]

Yeah..maybe.. nobody knows the particulars but the fact is.. Canes are trying or were trying to get a deal done.
A futures package for Pesce is reasonable.

 

[Zman5778]

The challenge I see is coming up with a win now trade package for Carolina as Pesce for futures isn't likely to move the needle for the Canes.

The challenge I see is that 15 team NTC -- and it's rumored we're on it.

 

[Jim Bob]

The challenge I see is that 15 team NTC -- and it's rumored we're on it.

There are plenty of challenges including all the D, especially RHD, that the Sabres have on the roster. I do not see how they are adding another one at this point in the offseason. Especially with the trade market around the league so constipated due to a lack of available cap space.

Over half the league has $5M or less of cap space right now.