Confirmed with Link: Ryan McLeod & Ty Tullio traded to Buffalo for Matthew Savoie

[CowbellConray]

If you don't like the way something starts don't take your ball and go home. (aka not reading the entire response before responding yourself).

You also ignored the premise of my response which was the original poster who I quoted saying it was absurd to have an issue with the trade. I showed a reason why it was absurd versus the aforementioned 4 point opinion on why anyone against it was wrong. And rather than addressing the fact of this 4 part dissection you hyper-focused on a percentage amount I threw out as a random retort.

I agree I'm not gonna sit here a debate whether Savoie has 5x-75x more value because it doesn't matter. You hyper focused on a number percentage and ignored everything else I said.

Am I not allowed to hyper focus on a value/number you put out if it’s completely wrong? If I say this trade isn’t an overpay because McLeod is actually a first line center and then continue with a post are you not allowed to call out that my value of McLeod is completely wrong?

You are carrying this forward and trying to make it something it’s not. I don’t care what the rest of your post sad. It didn’t peek my interest. I didn’t find anything crazy with the rest of what you said. I did, however find your first sentence to be a hyper exaggeration.

Can we just call a spade a spade and move on? Savoie is a good prospect, he was probably an overpay in a vacuum, McLeod is a 3c and we will need to see how he does since we have quite a bit to get him. And if savoies value was lessened due to our stable of similar prospects, sure, blame adams.

 

[Sabre the Win]

The vibe I get is that Savoie, Kulich, and Helenius are of a similar tier. Then there's a slight drop off to Ostlund and Wahlberg. If we expand it to players who are of similar age, then Benson is above all of them.

Truth is, it's a crap shoot which one of them will be the best of the bunch, but they're all quality young players, so it makes sense to deal from a position of strength. It was going to hurt regardless of who we traded.

I would have felt nothing if Rosen was traded.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

My last post on this subject because we're both repeating previous discussions.

It's clear that Adams didn’t want to invest in Mitts. He'd been very proactive in extending TT/Cozens as soon as he could, clearly he saw these guys as his long term 1C/2C. Why didn't he take the same approach with Mitts?

That plus the plethora of young 'top six' wingers either on the roster already, or in the pipeline dictated his future. There was no room for him long term in the top six & Adams wanted different type of players to fill out the 'bottom six' of the roster. This isn't an assumption it is a fact.

Mitts isn't useless defensively, but he's not exactly a defensive specialist, not a PK specialist, he's best described imo as a playmaker who is also very slow. He's not the type of player that Adams wanted in his bottom six & you do not pay third line players $7m per even if he was.

If you want to argue for Mitts playing higher in the lineup - with TT/Cozens/Tuch/Peterka/Quinn/Benson already on the roster, plus Kulich/Savoie/Rosen/Ostlund (and now also Helenius) in the system, there is no room for him in the top six either.

You keep bringing up Zucker, but we both know he's very likely a one year placeholder/insurance policy who doesn't fit into the big picture. Sure, Adams could have signed Mitts to a one year extension before needing to trade him at next year's TDL instead, but who knows if his value would be the same? You might think that one year of Mitts over one year of Zucker is worth a lot but i think being proactive, getting a key piece in Byram is worth more. It's also possible that one of the young guys like Kulich or Rosen impress out of camp, which would likely demote Zucker to a lesser role.

I don't think Colorado are dumb trading for / signing Mitts at all. They are clearly a different team, on a different timeline, with a different roster, having different needs.

It's just weird how you characterize Mitts as a spare part that didn't fit - the guy that outplayed both TT/Cozens - and claim that KA thought so too, as if THAT'S a confirmation of legitimacy.

 

[pigpen65]

The title of this thread is insane. If an Edmonton fan had posted this in the trade proposal forum the thread would have been locked within the first 10 minutes.

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

The title of this thread is insane. If an Edmonton fan had posted this in the trade proposal forum the thread would have been locked within the first 10 minutes.

trade forum proposals that actually happen / actual trades producing "didn't see that coming" reactions in the trade forum = a tiny fraction

 

[Willgamesh]

I would have felt nothing if Rosen was traded.

I would've felt bad for Kulich losing his friend.

 

[BFLO]

My last post on this subject because we're both repeating previous discussions.

It's clear that Adams didn’t want to invest in Mitts. He'd been very proactive in extending TT/Cozens as soon as he could, clearly he saw these guys as his long term 1C/2C. Why didn't he take the same approach with Mitts?

That plus the plethora of young 'top six' wingers either on the roster already, or in the pipeline dictated his future. There was no room for him long term in the top six & Adams wanted different type of players to fill out the 'bottom six' of the roster. This isn't an assumption it is a fact.

Mitts isn't useless defensively, but he's not exactly a defensive specialist, not a PK specialist, he's best described imo as a playmaker who is also very slow. He's not the type of player that Adams wanted in his bottom six & you do not pay third line players $7m per even if he was.

If you want to argue for Mitts playing higher in the lineup - with TT/Cozens/Tuch/Peterka/Quinn/Benson already on the roster, plus Kulich/Savoie/Rosen/Ostlund (and now also Helenius) in the system, there is no room for him in the top six either.

You keep bringing up Zucker, but we both know he's very likely a one year placeholder/insurance policy who doesn't fit into the big picture. Sure, Adams could have signed Mitts to a one year extension before needing to trade him at next year's TDL instead, but who knows if his value would be the same? You might think that one year of Mitts over one year of Zucker is worth a lot but i think being proactive, getting a key piece in Byram is worth more. It's also possible that one of the young guys like Kulich or Rosen impress out of camp, which would likely demote Zucker to a lesser role.

I don't think Colorado are dumb trading for / signing Mitts at all. They are clearly a different team, on a different timeline, with a different roster, having different needs.

I trust the vision of Sakic/MacFarland who won the cup 3 years ago over the vision of Kevyn who has yet to make the playoffs after 4 years at the helm.

 

[Krieger Bot]

Oof. I hate it.

Don't get me wrong, there's some stuff to like here. I like McLeod a lot. Super fast. Very competitive. Strong defensively. At a minimum, he comes in as a solid 3C, and there's some potential for him to be more of a glue guy on a scoring line.

I also like the remake of the forward group. I wonder if Lindy tries to transition the team to more of a puck possession/cycling oriented game. They've added a lot of guys who fit that mold. And there are other guys on the team who's skill sets could thrive in that style of play. Then, they can rely on their surplus of quality shooters to turn all of their offensive zone time into goals. It's really not a bad roster. That approach could work well.

But man do I hate trading Savoie. Personally, I see Savoie as a potential Briere-esque PPG 1C. Will he ever get to that point? Who knows. But you just don't trade prospects with that kind of potential for a bottom-6 guy your analytics staff thinks they can get more out of. Hell, I think there's a pretty good chance Savoie ends up outplaying McLeod in the NHL as early as this year, leaving us with regret.

Any other F prospect (save for maybe Helenius) and I'm fine with it. But when Holland demanded Savoie, Adams should have balked and opted to live with some combination of Krebs/Savoie/Kulich, or maybe even Benson as his 3C. Put those guys with quality wingers like Zucker/Greenway/Benson, and the third line would have been just fine.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Any other F prospect (save for maybe Helenius) and I'm fine with it. But when Holland demanded Savoie, Adams should have balked and opted to live with some combination of Krebs/Savoie/Kulich, or maybe even Benson as his 3C. Put those guys with quality wingers like Zucker/Greenway/Benson, and the third line would have been just fine.

A steep price, but even asking Krebs to be 3C was a tough ask, let alone any combo of rooks.

 

[Fjordy]

Oof. I hate it.

Don't get me wrong, there's some stuff to like here. I like McLeod a lot. Super fast. Very competitive. Strong defensively. At a minimum, he comes in as a solid 3C, and there's some potential for him to be more of a glue guy on a scoring line.

I also like the remake of the forward group. I wonder if Lindy tries to transition the team to more of a puck possession/cycling oriented game. They've added a lot of guys who fit that mold. And there are other guys on the team who's skill sets could thrive in that style of play. Then, they can rely on their surplus of quality shooters to turn all of their offensive zone time into goals. It's really not a bad roster. That approach could work well.

But man do I hate trading Savoie. Personally, I see Savoie as a potential Briere-esque PPG 1C. Will he ever get to that point? Who knows. But you just don't trade prospects with that kind of potential for a bottom-6 guy your analytics staff thinks they can get more out of. Hell, I think there's a pretty good chance Savoie ends up outplaying McLeod in the NHL as early as this year, leaving us with regret.

Any other F prospect (save for maybe Helenius) and I'm fine with it. But when Holland demanded Savoie, Adams should have balked and opted to live with some combination of Krebs/Savoie/Kulich, or maybe even Benson as his 3C. Put those guys with quality wingers like Zucker/Greenway/Benson, and the third line would have been just fine.

I'm not sure if it was the Oilers GM who ask Savoie. Rumor has it the Sabres have been trying to trade Savoie all along. Maybe there's more to it that we don't know about.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

It's just weird how you characterize Mitts as a spare part that didn't fit - the guy that outplayed both TT/Cozens - and claim that KA thought so too, as if THAT'S a confirmation of legitimacy.

It clearly IS how Adams thought, since he extended both TT/Cozens at the first opportunity while he didn't extend Mitts, instead choosing to trade him away.

There's nothing else to say. As i said earlier, you really just need to get over it.

Oof. I hate it.

Don't get me wrong, there's some stuff to like here. I like McLeod a lot. Super fast. Very competitive. Strong defensively. At a minimum, he comes in as a solid 3C, and there's some potential for him to be more of a glue guy on a scoring line.

I also like the remake of the forward group. I wonder if Lindy tries to transition the team to more of a puck possession/cycling oriented game. They've added a lot of guys who fit that mold. And there are other guys on the team who's skill sets could thrive in that style of play. Then, they can rely on their surplus of quality shooters to turn all of their offensive zone time into goals. It's really not a bad roster. That approach could work well.

But man do I hate trading Savoie. Personally, I see Savoie as a potential Briere-esque PPG 1C. Will he ever get to that point? Who knows. But you just don't trade prospects with that kind of potential for a bottom-6 guy your analytics staff thinks they can get more out of. Hell, I think there's a pretty good chance Savoie ends up outplaying McLeod in the NHL as early as this year, leaving us with regret.

Any other F prospect (save for maybe Helenius) and I'm fine with it. But when Holland demanded Savoie, Adams should have balked and opted to live with some combination of Krebs/Savoie/Kulich, or maybe even Benson as his 3C. Put those guys with quality wingers like Zucker/Greenway/Benson, and the third line would have been just fine.

Edmonton didn't demand Savoie. Sounds like Adams was actively shopping him...

 

[RefsIdeas]

I went on Twitter and did a search for Ryan McLeod before the trade happened to get an idea of what Oilers fans thought about him. I wasn’t sure if it was bitter Oiler fans chiming in here or what.

Most thought he was a 4C, not a 3C. Lots of people didn’t think he was worth 2.1m at that 4C role. Lots of complaints about lack of physicality. Solid PKer. People thought he either should be a cap dump or traded for picks/packaged with Ceci for a defensive upgrade.

Compare that with what Sabres fans said about Savoie — fans saying Savoie is worth more than Ehlers straight up.

Yikes.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

Let’s hope this isn’t an unwinding of the Briere Gratton trade.

 

[Krieger Bot]

A steep price, but even asking Krebs to be 3C was a tough ask, let alone any combo of rooks.

I disagree. Between Krebs, Savoie, Kulich, and even Ostlund, they had 4 recent first round picks who have had at least some success playing center. Benson played a little center in juniors too, bringing the number to 5. Expecting one of them to fill a top 6 role would be too much at this point in their careers, sure. But expecting none of them to be ready to handle a third line role? That's much too conservative about prospect development IMO. At least one of them would be able to handle the job, provided that they were working with quality wingers like Zucker/Greenway/Benson.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

You can hope Ruff can fire up the whole group.
I guess we will have to see how it all works out.

“If you don’t work as hard as Krebsy, he’s getting your ice time.”

 

[Fjordy]

I went on Twitter and did a search for Ryan McLeod before the trade happened to get an idea of what Oilers fans thought about him. I wasn’t sure if it was bitter Oiler fans chiming in here or what.

Most thought he was a 4C, not a 3C. Lots of people didn’t think he was worth 2.1m at that 4C role. Lots of complaints about lack of physicality. Solid PKer. People thought he either should be a cap dump or traded for picks/packaged with Ceci for a defensive upgrade.

Compare that with what Sabres fans said about Savoie — fans saying Savoie is worth more than Ehlers straight up.

Yikes.

Isn't Twitter a pile of garbage? I think we need to evaluate any situation objectively.

There are multiple sources confirming that the Sabres have been trying to trade Savoie and have offered him to multiple teams. It doesn't seem like you're trading your absolute best prospect with no warts. I don't know why that happened, someone was talking about some party the day before his NHL debut (maybe it leaked and Adams didn't like it). Maybe there were other reasons. I think we all know who Savoie is and what his potential is. But we also know his style of play and injury history, that he hasn't been as flashy as Benson for them and didn't even seem to be the best player on his junior team. But right now he seems like a surplus to requirements in the organization.

Now on to McLeod. He's fast, good on defense and PK, can win faceoffs, can play on the wing if needed. I think all of those factors are pretty good, to say the least. He has good metrics, probably has the potential to score over 30 points if he has better scoring players on his wings like Benson and Zucker for example. He is also still relatively young, and it is not the same as if he was 30 years old and his ceiling was already known.

I think we were also wrong about Savoie's value around the league. To us he was Point, and to other teams he was Ennis.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

Let’s hope this isn’t an unwinding of the Briere Gratton trade.

I always forget that Gratton was once a Sabre.

 

[Zman5778]

I always forget that Gratton was once a Sabre.

Not I. Why?

Because I nearly ran him over with my car while parking near Pearl Street Bar and Grill.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

Not I. Why?

Because I nearly ran him over with my car while parking near Pearl Street Bar and Grill.

Dude he wasn’t that bad….

 

[MarkusKetterer]

Not I. Why?

Because I nearly ran him over with my car while parking near Pearl Street Bar and Grill.

Your eyesight must have been failing then to nearly run over someone that large

 

[Paxon]

Not I. Why?

Because I nearly ran him over with my car while parking near Pearl Street Bar and Grill.

Thou shall not flatten Gratton

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

It clearly IS how Adams thought, since he extended both TT/Cozens at the first opportunity while he didn't extend Mitts, instead choosing to trade him away.

There's nothing else to say. As i said earlier, you really just need to get over it.

Uh...it seems at this point you're the one who can't get over my take on the issue. Maybe you should let it go, just like I advised pages ago.

I disagree. Between Krebs, Savoie, Kulich, and even Ostlund, they had 4 recent first round picks who have had at least some success playing center. Benson played a little center in juniors too, bringing the number to 5. Expecting one of them to fill a top 6 role would be too much at this point in their careers, sure. But expecting none of them to be ready to handle a third line role? That's much too conservative about prospect development IMO. At least one of them would be able to handle the job, provided that they were working with quality wingers like Zucker/Greenway/Benson.

This year? Yeah, that's too much to ask.

 

[Dubi Doo]

I would have felt nothing if Rosen was traded.

Of course, but I didn't mention him for a reason. If you're using him as bait, then youre fishing for a smaller fish.

 

[HOOats]

I think after this trade I’m gonna adopt Buffalo as my eastern team. I’ve been thinking about it and it makes sense:

- I like Mcleod
- I have a soft spot for small market teams that have crappy UFA attractiveness (see my Oilers)
- I already hate the Leafs
- I like alot of the talent that Buffalo is stock piling
- I like underdogs
- I want to see the stale and boring playoff teams in the East be changed up
- Oh and f*** Jack Eichel. I always hate players that quit on their franchise. Yeh yeh yeh there was injury issues and circumstances surrounding that, but still f*** him.
- Oh and Tage is a beast

Welcome to the club!

In another lopsided trade between the Oilers and Sabres, I've got about a dozen Buffalo "fans" tabbed to head the other way to Edmonton. Who doesn't love an old fashioned 12-for-1 deal?! Can't wait to see their toxicity applied to a one-game McDavid pointless streak.

I like the Bottom 6 makeover. Malenstyn and Lafferty are two high motor players to go along with Mcleod. Don’t know much about Aube-Kubel. Or the Benson and Greenway from last year, but I’ll learn their games soon.

But with those additional motors in the bottom 6, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Bottom 6 is like a work rate engine for this team. Once work rate is solved and becomes consistent and non-negotiable, a team can really start to make noise.

This is the way.

Contagious work rate, tilting the ice the other way after having it tilted against us for years, freeing up our skill to do its thing.

I don't think we'll see Tuch or Cozens dogging it to start the year after a training camp with Malenstyn and Co. skating them into shape (mentally and physically).

 

[Jumptheshark]

You guys needed a 3rd line defensive player and got one. Just do not ask too much of him. It looks like you guys need players who can actually play in their own zone and Ryan M can do that.

As for what you guys gave up? SAvoie looks to be an all or nothing prospect. Sabres obviously soured on him for a reason. he is a small forward and the question is can he with stand the NHL hitting and stuff