Bryanbryoil
Pray For Ukraine
- Sep 13, 2004
- 86,916
- 36,523
It's possible, but Gazzola isn't the most accurate Oilers "insider". If Bob Staufer says the same then I would definitely believe it.
Confirmed with Link: Ryan McLeod & Ty Tullio traded to Buffalo for Matthew Savoie
- Thread starter Jim Bob
- Start date
-
2024-2025 Premier League Pickem is now open Click here to join.
It's possible, but Gazzola isn't the most accurate Oilers "insider". If Bob Staufer says the same then I would definitely believe it.
Fjordy
Registered User
- Jun 20, 2018
- 16,637
- 9,087
But it's not just Gazzola, our insider Chad also says Sabres have been making offers Savoie to other teams all offseason.
Jumptheshark
Rebooting myself
Yeah--I think there was something up with Savoie that we do not know about(I assume you guys are tied of oilers fan swinging by trying to make sense of the deal). When this deal went down I was over the mood as an oiler fan. WE needed to McLeod sooner than later due to cap reasons and getting Savoie back is great. But I believe something is off. Maybe the relationship between Savoie and Buffalo went south or maybe Buffalo saw something in Savoie they no longer liked. While I am an Oiler fan, I live in the UK so I am clear of the fog the engulfs oiler fandom sometimes. I have seen a few places where Savoie is being compared to Gilbert Brule 6th over all in 2005 and that slightly concerns me. Curious if the Sabres made the same decision. McLeod is a lot like another former Oiler Kyle Brodziak who had a good career with the Blues and Wild. I think you guys are going to like the guy. As for Savoie? I have more questions than answers as to why the Sabres moved on from him so quickly. Sabres were shopping him and I find that interesting. This story is not done. We are missing a piece I think
HOOats
born Ruffian
From the Sabres side, I see two primary reasons to shop Savoie.
First, his redundancy in our young forward ranks, and potentially a mismatch of the team's needs and his expectations. I could see his camp growing impatient getting skipped by Benson (granted he was injured), then a new coach coming in and perhaps giving indications that Savoie wasn't in the immediate plans this year. Stuck behind Tuch, Peterka, Quinn, and Benson in the NHL, and tangled up with Kulich, Rosen, and Wahlberg in the AHL - that's a tough spot for a young wing not yet cut out for a B6 role in Lindy's system. I'm not saying he asked for a trade, but there had to be uncertainty about his path here heading into D+3.
Second, the Sabres had two years to get a read on the physical/medical side and his shoulder specifically. Maybe they felt the risk of re-injury made him most expendable (didn't he have something flare up again last playoffs?). Or perhaps he just wasn't filling out as they'd hoped he would when drafted two years prior. I think he can overcome it, but his physical + play style profile is risky even before factoring in his actual injury history.
All that said, he's a dawg and a strong majority of Sabres fans hopes and expects he does well in Edmonton.
old kummelweck
Registered User
- Nov 10, 2003
- 25,518
- 5,658
This sounds like a strategically placed bit of information. We would have at least have heard Savioe was being shopped. The Sabres are buttoned up, but once that information makes it out, everyone hears about it.
Fjordy
Registered User
- Jun 20, 2018
- 16,637
- 9,087
Well, who knows, but from what I understand, Savoie was used in all potential trades, although other teams most often asked for other Sabres prospects.
This trade annoys me more and more every day. It's not even that it was Savoie, which I believe was still their only 1st line potential forward. They used that top prospect to acquire Edmonton's cast off/4C. He became expendable on that team. EDM was dealing a player that was replaced in free agency and Adams still got bent over in value. This reeks of desperation. That isn't even that bad by itself. What pisses me off the most is you had all draft and FA to make moves to not be desperate and he failed at every turn. No matter how good this team is, Adams needs to go or reach out to someone who can train him how to negotiate a deal because he is BAD outside of selling off players.
If you want to argue about Savoie's size and injury, he was taken at 9 due to his size, he was a top 5 prospect that year otherwise. If the injury hurt his value, then his potential VS his return was skewed even more towards keeping him to bet on returns. Just keep him and see what he can become if your return is another teams expendable 4C.
I don't know how Rosen is still here. Probably no one wants him. We have to bank on Benson being that top 6 forward. Kulich won't be. Konsta and Ostlund have no spot on the roster at center. It just really confuses me.
What is his plan for Mcleod he needs a new contract soon, if he gets multiple years we have no center spots for like 5 years. If you only keep him for a few years or he gets pushed down the roster, yikes.
I understand why this deal was made, there were just too many other issues that led to this significant overpay for EDM's expendable player. Are we even confident he can be our 3C? Beats Kreb's at least. I don't think he is enough of a needle mover to say we don't need that top 6 winger now.
If you want to argue about Savoie's size and injury, he was taken at 9 due to his size, he was a top 5 prospect that year otherwise. If the injury hurt his value, then his potential VS his return was skewed even more towards keeping him to bet on returns. Just keep him and see what he can become if your return is another teams expendable 4C.
I don't know how Rosen is still here. Probably no one wants him. We have to bank on Benson being that top 6 forward. Kulich won't be. Konsta and Ostlund have no spot on the roster at center. It just really confuses me.
What is his plan for Mcleod he needs a new contract soon, if he gets multiple years we have no center spots for like 5 years. If you only keep him for a few years or he gets pushed down the roster, yikes.
I understand why this deal was made, there were just too many other issues that led to this significant overpay for EDM's expendable player. Are we even confident he can be our 3C? Beats Kreb's at least. I don't think he is enough of a needle mover to say we don't need that top 6 winger now.
Push Dr Tracksuit
Gerstmann 3:16
- Jun 9, 2012
- 13,388
- 3,595
Savoie: all his faults were secretly strengths
Every other prospect: failure
That’s usually how you know you aren’t looking at things with a clear lense.
Every other prospect: failure
That’s usually how you know you aren’t looking at things with a clear lense.
Beerz
Registered User
- Jun 28, 2011
- 36,349
- 12,536
Jim Bob
RIP RJ
At best, Savoie was their 4th best forward on an ELC (Quinn, Peterka, and Benson clearly ahead of Savoie).
I think it is obvious that the Sabres had Kulich ahead of Savoie.
And there is a chance that guys like Rosen, Helenius, Ostlund, and Wahlberg have better NHL careers.
The Sabres have so many U23 forwards in the system that I can't lose my mind that they filled an obvious need on the NHL roster by trading one of over a half-dozen U23 forwards that have top 6/9 potential.
Anyone who thinks Kulich is a better prospect than Savoie can't have a clear lens.
Jim Bob
RIP RJ
It sure seems like the Sabres valued Kulich more than Savoie from all reports. And their opinion on the two is what matters most.
Fjordy
Registered User
- Jun 20, 2018
- 16,637
- 9,087
Why can't Kulich be better than Savoie in the long term?
We are projecting. Kulich has shown maybe third liner with top end second liner. Savoie was drafted with top line potential. Kulich has not inspired any confidence in me. By being a prospect, it's all what they could become. Kulich is near decision time. Savoie has been stuck and is more of a projection. Its 100% possible Kulich is better in the end.
Dubi Doo
Registered User
- Aug 27, 2008
- 19,831
- 13,562
What Kulich did as a goal scorer in his D+1 year cannot be overlooked. He's playing in a much tougher league. I don't think Savoie has nearly as productive of a D+1 season in the AHL as Kulich does.
I personally had Savoie as my #1 prospect behind Levi, but Helenius and Kulich are in the same tier. If we're going by U20 forwards, Benson clears all of them pretty easily. Jim's point stands imo, we dealt from a position of strength to address a weakness.
In terms of decisions yes. No one said GM's always make smart decisions. Although idk why, he was invisible on callup and was never seen again this season.
joshjull
Registered User
Are you kidding me?
Kulich in two seasons as a teenager playing against men in the AHL
Regular season -> 119gms 51g 91pts
Playoffs ——> 17gms 7g 13pts
That would be extremely impressive even if he was in his D+3/D+4 season. Its incredible for kid in their D+1/D+2 years.
You can like Savoie more but its a bit ridiculous to pretend Kulich hasn’t be pretty great as well
The problem was he isn't the same type of player as those, Rosen is the only other similar type and he was further down the board. They also got a 4C in EDM as a return for a top 10 pick who finally had an opportunity this year to show what he was worth and they decided they didn't even want to look.
Jim Bob
RIP RJ
I think it is pretty obvious: Kulich has more of a pro build than Savoie and they think he has a much better chance at being an effective NHL center than Savoie due to the size difference.
Savoie being small and having issues staying healthy are a huge issue in projecting him to the NHL.
Like Bill Belichick used to say: a player's #1 ability is his availability.
And it's not like Savoie ripped it up in either training camp or his one NHL GP.
If he was so good, why was he not on the Sabres last year and got passed by Benson (and would have by Savoie if healthy)?
Actually he was their best player two camps ago, and was their best at the tournament before injury. So why is Quinn on this team if he can't stay healthy?
Jim Bob
RIP RJ
Benson being NHL or WHL and Kulich having the ability to play in Rochester and slide his ELC was likely a huge factor in that.
Push Dr Tracksuit
Gerstmann 3:16
- Jun 9, 2012
- 13,388
- 3,595
well considering last off season these boards voted kulich higher than savoie
Jim Bob
RIP RJ
I think you could see Quinn get traded next summer if he can't stay healthy again this season.
joshjull
Registered User
Benson is better than Kulich and Savoie. Thats why he was up here. Plus he’s a natural winger and there were spots there. There were no spots at center.
Kulich still needed to work on his game, especially consistency and his defense. His contract could also slide. Any player whose contract could slide had to be that much better to make the team. Fair or not thats the way it is. It’s why Krebs got called up after 18gms with the Amerks instead of Quinn/Peterka. Even though those two were playing better.
People are too in love with Benson. He is a slow skater for his size and has a bad shot. He is not a high-end offensive player.
