Mayor Bee
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- Dec 29, 2008
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The only real blame to go around is squarely on Howson for having drafted him in the first place.
(There, that should cause the pace to accelerate even faster
)Ryan Johansen Saga III
- Thread starter Samkow
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The only real blame to go around is squarely on Howson for having drafted him in the first place.
(There, that should cause the pace to accelerate even faster
)
Sore Loser
Sorest of them all
Sore Loser
Sorest of them all
To the bolded - You're arguing semantics. The main point remains intact: the team won by committee last year, and the team will continue to win by committee - with or without Johansen.
To the second part, you may be right, but I don't think playing .500 hockey is going to make them cave to his $6.5 million per year over two year demands. It will take a mutual effort, from both sides, to make a deal. Not to say Jarmo and company can't come up with their offers, I just think the Johansen party is being more unrealistic with their demands.
Wendy Clear
Generic Statement of Happiness
The comparables don't support it, man. Show me (like RJ's camp would have to show CBJ) which player earned $4.5m/year on a 2-year bridge deal, and if you can find one (since most get $3m to $3.5m), compare his 2 or 3 years of production to RJ's 1 and there's the definitive answer to "what's the problem".
I do agree that it seems CBJ is getting too hung up on his exact dollar and cent worth, and maybe needs to negotiate a little more (I'm saying this loosely based on reading between the lines and stuff, it's not like we know exactly who shares how much of the blame), but at the same time their side is the one which is supported by actual facts. RJ's camp is simply living in dreamland where Stamkos or other players far better than RJ are realistic comparables. Derrrrrp, they're not.
Johansen and Wisniewski for Thornton and Pavelski
Nice try sj. They want futures.
try pavelski plus hertl and maybe they bite.
Cyclones Rock
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- Jun 12, 2008
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So sorry to keep you waiting. Work and a social engagement interfered with my response time. I promise to not allow that to happen again.
Are you aware that all of these players have more offensively skilled teammates than Johansen does?
Not a single one of these players led their team in scoring (by percentage) over their next highest scoring teammate than Johansen led the Jackets. Although Hall was very close. No one else was even in the same ball park.
Are you aware that Seguin and Benn play on the same line? Each of those players benefit from the other. I happen to think that Seguin is probably going to be a better point producer than Johansen, but take him off of Benn's line and put him with RJUmgarbage and Foligno and Jack Skille and his numbers would drop. Same with Benn. Would you take Benn over Johansen? Taylor Seguin's contract extension happened after his second year (67 points) after a dreadful 22 point rookie season. It was signed two years ago before the lockout and the cap rise.
Taylor Hall is a #1 overall pick who is a great player. Johansen can't skate like this guy. Not many can. He's the leading scorer on his team by quite a margin-just like Johansen. Eberle benefits greatly from playing with Hall. Would you rather have Eberle than Johansen? Taylor Hall's contract was also signed after year 2 of his ELC, before the lockout and before the cap rose.
John Taveres is another #1 overall pick who is prodigiously talented. His contract was signed before his ELC was finished 3 years ago. Maybe Johansen won't be as good as he is. So what?
The rest of the players are all on the same team. Duchene (70 points), Landeskog (65) and Oreilly (64) also had super rookie McKinnon (63) and Paul Stastny (60) on the same team. You don't think that Johansen might have had a few more points with these types of teammates? He probably would have led the Avalanche in scoring.
All you've done is point out that at this point in their careers, two #1 overall picks (Hall and Tavares) have had higher productivity than Johasnen as has a 2nd overall pick (Seguin). Each of these players have had more NHL experience than Johansen as well. Interestingly, Johansen led his team in scoring over the next highest player by a smidge more than Hall did (24% to 22%). If one goes back to Taveres' last full season (not coincidentally his 3rd NHL season), he led his next highest teammate by only 17%. So Johansen is, within his own team, a more prodigious scorer than two outstanding #1 overall picks. I wouldn't have known this had you not provided me with your post. Thanks.
Ryan Johansen fits very nicely with this group. There is absolutely nothing wrong with his agent seeking the term length that most of these guys are on (6 years) and a bit more money than they received two or more years ago with a lower cap. The contracts these guys signed may very well have been somewhat discounted due to the risk associated with the impending lockout of 2012-13. No one knew what would happen and signing in advance may have given these players a degree of certainty with their future incomes which they wouldn't have had had they not signed prior to the lockout.
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EspenK
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- Sep 25, 2011
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Actually if the top six scored 5 more goals each that would result in a bunch of other guys adding 60 pts (excluding pp & unassisteds) for a total of 90 vs the 63. If that happened I would be happy.
wow they offered him millions of dollars! it must be a great deal.
Both long term deals were extremely management and team friendly, and both would really hurt the earning potential of the kid over his prime years. They were bad deals. The team made them public so that fans who don't understand the CBA or the business side of hockey, would turn against Joey, thinking he turned down some huge deal, when in fact, he turned down a bad deal that wasn't fair to him over the long term.
Get over the one good year garbage. Horton had a bunch of good years, and his long term contract was a horrible disaster.
Maybe the front office should stop leaking everything to the front office and turning this into a public ****show. Players and agents are not going to want to deal with Jarmo and JD if they keep this nonsense up.
EspenK
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The only real blame to go around is squarely on Howson for having drafted him in the first place.
(There, that should cause the pace to accelerate even faster
It's good to know who's really at fault in all of this...
--
Ideally speaking, and given the prolific amount of information in this and other threads, 2 yrs, $4 mil AAV seems fair when you take into account comparables and cap considerations. That's $1 mil more than CBJ is offering and $2 mil less than RyJo's camp.
Overhardt needs to have a at least float a proposal in the $4.5-$4.75 mil AAV range to get these discussions going again. I can understand why CBJFO wouldn't want to negotiate when you are trying to anchor yourself in the $6-7 mil AAV range.
Again, I feel like this is CBJFO v. Overhardt rather than Johansen. After this is sorted out and he gets back on the ice the business side will take a backseat until 2016. JD is trying to reassure the fans that they are doing everything they can but they are also looking out for the team long term. Jarmo is just trying to get an equitable deal done - just look at Dubinsky.
Still think this goes into October, but hopefully I'm wrong and it gets done sooner.
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KJ Dangler
Registered User
Interesting comment on Horton, his horrible disaster contract i, in your words. How long has he been with the jackets ? 1 year
Every website I have been the comments are overwhelmingly in favor of jackets management. I would venture that 90% of the comments are johansen is crazy to turn down guaranteed close to 6 mill a year, for one good season. If you follow hockey writers, they have all tweeted the same thing even posting comparables of bridge deals many of whom have much better numbers for there first 3 years. Didn't Jeff skinner just sign a 6 yr 34 mill contract ? Here's a blurb....The new contract extends the term to 2018-19 and wraps up a dynamic young player who already has 51 goals, 107 points, an All-Star Game, and a Calder Trophy on his NHL resume after just two seasons.
Fro
Cheatin on CBJ w TBL
and there's the answer i was wondering about...thanks Porty
http://bluejacketsxtra.dispatch.com...insky-knows-how-difficult-holdout-can-be.html
http://bluejacketsxtra.dispatch.com...insky-knows-how-difficult-holdout-can-be.html
Fro
Cheatin on CBJ w TBL
One thing I find interesting (odd?)...
the media sides with JK/JD over them going public with the Joey negotiations, but the same media folk are blasting Ottawa for doing the same...is it the agent? amount of time in the league? is it a bias towards/against the respective FOs?
i literally have no idea on it...just find it interesting
the media sides with JK/JD over them going public with the Joey negotiations, but the same media folk are blasting Ottawa for doing the same...is it the agent? amount of time in the league? is it a bias towards/against the respective FOs?
i literally have no idea on it...just find it interesting
Double-Shift Lasse
Just post better
Can't shake the notion that there was a sort of secondary approach by the agent to this summer and the CBJ as well. Agent represents both Dubinsky and Johansen. Dubinsky signs, Johansen publicly calls him the team's second line center. Now the agent is referring to Johansen as the team's first-line center, positioning him to get paid as such despite the veteran status of his other client and the way the CBA has worked in such matters.
I don't get your point. It is pretty comparable with players around his performance and skill level. How much more was Johansen's camp looking for? How much is a "reasonable" offer? If either the six or eight year were close they would have continued talking.
Most people consider the 5.25 or so million to be pretty competitive based on his performance history. He's obviously not worth Stamkos money. I don't think any of us see 50+ goals in his future. He's obviously not a 100 point+ guy, like a Malkin or Crosby. I know we see the Kane and Toews deal, but Johansen doesn't have Cups or their history of performance to back up anything close to that.
Perhaps you should tell us what number would satisfy you and base that on recent contracts. Seems to be that something close to what Taveres got on a long term deal seems fair. Are you saying it wouldn't be? If so, why?
In the long run, I think he's worth that an more. Having said that, he does need to prove that he can do this consistently.
EspenK
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My prediction of the response: Tavares is underpaid. Why should Johansen take that deal? Give him Toews money. I mean after all he is the next great center based on his breakout season.
You're right, I'm sure Joey will never be able to find employment in the NHL again after this display of diva antics. If he sits in camp he may have to play in the KHL until he's 40.
EspenK
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