Ryan Johansen Saga III

[KJ Dangler]

I'm frustrated with JD and JK for:
1- sticking to a number - 3 million - that is a lowball offer and insisting with red faces that it is fair;

2- for whining like they're victims here when in fact they are an organization and Joey and his agent are not equal nor do they have nearly as much leverage as the organization, as many of you are delighted to repeat;

3- and for jeopardizing Joey's presence on this roster over a couple million dollars. (And for the Gaborik trade, increasingly for the Horton signing, and letting D-Mac walk and some others things but I'll keep it on topic).

They saw their draft picks excel in Traverse City and they seem to think they're smartest guys in the room and since they have this talent in the pipeline that the talent in the pump room can be neglected. I don't support it and I'm sorry my team is being so hamfisted.

6 million per year is too high, that's not my beef.

As far as your last paragraph, you'll have to provide more hypothetical details. And of course the other side of the argument is what happens if Joey sits out, the team tanks, he winds up on a different team and proceeds to blow up en route to a Stanley Cup? Then will you still think they did the right thing by taking this negotiation personally and not budging from a $3 million offer? Sort of like, what if Gaborik rounds into form and leads the Kings to the Stanley Cup, then will this trade not be a terrible one?



They're not offering 2x4. 2x4 isn't close to what they're offering - but I guess that's better than "not remotely close".

Dude, they offered 6 yr 32 mill and 8 yr 46 mill, for a player that has had one good year. That's a lot of guaranteed money .

 

[Jaxs]

The problem is he thinks he should be paid more than he deserves. So, what is he going to ask for if he deserves $8-$9 million?

I know that he may want the moon on his next deal. If he puts up lets 82 points this year and next year 95 points and we get to the EC Finals, what would he be worth? 8, 9, 10 ? I don't know. The FO will have to sort that out. I would rather have his services on a two year bridge where he knows he has to put up big numbers to get paid like he wants to be.

 

[NotWendell]

Give him the 2x4 already. Overhardt can go to hell for poisoning the well.

JD and JK let's get this done now.

Nothing like having this huge black cloud over the start of training camp.

Sadly, if Overcharge would take 2 x 4, the deal would have already been done.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Dude, they offered 6 yr 32 mill and 8 yr 46 mill, for a player that has had one good year. That's a lot of guaranteed money .

Those contracts are only a shade over 5 million per year for the 6 year and a shade below 6 mill on the 8 year. Which is less than what Johansen's camp was asking for over a 2 year term, let alone 6-8 years. There's a reason they were outright rejected, it was basically the same offer the Jackets have been sending him, just with more years.

 

[KJ Dangler]

We seem to be good trade partners with Philly. They probably wouldn't trade Johan within division , but hypothetically, if Philly were to offer courtier, and,voracek for Ryan j . Any takers ?

 

[db2011]

I'll get flamed for this but I would seriously consider Monahan, Klimchuk, and Calgary's 1 next year. If we aren't going to pay him and surely he will want more next time then ship him to a lousy team and pray to whomever that we win the lottery.

If I were the Jackets at this point I'd make a final offer of 2 years, 4.5 mill - take it or send us a postcard from the KHL or Calgary. I originally was in the 5.5 per camp. but after seeing the comps and listening to the logic I think 4.5 is more than fair.

Ultimately I think the deal gets done like it usually does but I do think he will be a continuous pain or will not play up to his deal. He already is exhibiting Zherdev (the real one) tendencies. I just think the Jackets want to avoid him exhibiting Nash tendencies after a big, long-term deal.

They say they won't budge from 3 mill, I don't see them agreeing to 4.5 at all.

 

[DJA]

Those contracts are only a shade over 5 million per year for the 6 year and a shade below 6 mill on the 8 year. Which is less than what Johansen's camp was asking for over a 2 year term, let alone 6-8 years. There's a reason they were outright rejected, it was basically the same offer the Jackets have been sending him, just with more years.

The 2 year, $6 mil deal is the same as the 8 year, $46 mil deal?

fuzzy math

 

[Jaxs]

Sadly, if Overcharge would take 2 x 4, the deal would have already been done.

I know, I guess Overburden is the problem here.

Someone said earlier that they hoped Joey would go home and his dad would talk some sense into him. I think it was Fro who replied that his dad was tweeting that his son deserved the big money.

 

[db2011]

Dude, they offered 6 yr 32 mill and 8 yr 46 mill, for a player that has had one good year. That's a lot of guaranteed money .

To me, 1 million is a lot of guaranteed money, but I'm not as good at hockey or as large as Ryan Johansen. Seriously, those aren't good deals for Joey in my opinion.

What doesn't add up is they're willing to pay him 5.75 for eight years, but only 3 for 2. John Davidson can patronize us for not knowing the CBA all he wants, but if you're willing to pay 5.75 per year for eight guaranteed years, what's the problem with 4.5 per year for only 2 years??

 

[Sore Loser]

Sadly, if Overcharge would take 2 x 4, the deal would have already been done.

Exactly.

We seem to be good trade partners with Philly. They probably wouldn't trade Johan within division , but hypothetically, if Philly were to offer courtier, and,voracek for Ryan j . Any takers ?

No thanks. We have plenty of depth at forward ... IMO, to trade Johansen, the return has to net a similar-aged, similarly skilled player. Adding Couturier gives us another 2nd-3rd line center, and Voracek would bolt as soon as free agency hit. Plus, we've been down that road.

 

[We Want Ten]

The 2 year, $6 mil deal is the same as the 8 year, $46 mil deal?

fuzzy math

Business Math 101 at KOU.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

The 2 year, $6 mil deal is the same as the 8 year, $46 mil deal?

fuzzy math

Joey is asking for 2 years 6 per. They're giving him 6 per (basically, it's 5.75) but they're making him sacrifice 6 years in order to get it. That's a no go form their POV.

 

[KJ Dangler]

Joey is asking for 2 years 6 per. They're giving him 6 per (basically, it's 5.75) but they're making him sacrifice 6 years in order to get it. That's a no go form their POV.

Yet the jackets should pay 2x over his compables for a bridge deal

 

[DJA]

Joey is asking for 2 years 6 per. They're giving him 6 per (basically, it's 5.75) but they're making him sacrifice 6 years in order to get it. That's a no go form their POV.

yes, but it's not "the same offer they've been sending him, only with more years attached" as you said earlier. they are giving him more money AND more years.

 

[Nanabijou]

Joey is asking for 2 years 6 per. They're giving him 6 per (basically, it's 5.75) but they're making him sacrifice 6 years in order to get it. That's a no go form their POV.

5.75 per year is what Skinner is at right now. Joey has greater potential, but let's face it, Skinner had a better track record on his ELC.

 

[orthosrgn2]

I am at the point where a respite from the dilemma seems advisable. Let both sides sit and stew over the options. Let's get training camp started!

 

[db2011]

they met for at least 4 days straight...its not like they said we're not meeting with you period...they spent the weekend practically attached at the hip in traverse...

Fro, you're the guy who likes to say Joey "took his ball and went home". JD/JK told him to clean out, then stopped meeting with his agent in Columbus, cried that they were victims of extortion, and are refusing to go above an arbitrary (and low) dollar amount. The only reason you can't use a snarky "taking their balls and going home" line is either because they're already home or they haven't got any.

 

[Doug19]

Page after page after page of Déjà vu. Brassard, davidbklyn, and zherdev all agree (shocking) and the rest disagree.

 

[Fro]

actually, i think they have HUGE balls to do what they did...there is a lot of good information in this thread about extensions and post ELC contracts that I think JD/JK are right in line with their thinking. Like several others I first thought 5.5m a year would be good, but that number is high compared to players that showed more over the life of their ELCs compared to Joey. You can come in here and get boisterous all you want, what's said here is meaningless in the grand scheme.

I get you're frustrated with your perception of all the bad things JD/JK have done, but they've made some good moves (and some bad ones in hindsight), drafted well, and have us set up for sustained playoff runs in the future, not the 1 and done of the past.

I do think Joey should have stayed in town, and thus my "took his ball and went home" line. I saw Zito and Overhardt talking/meeting myself. A cooling off period was probably needed on both sides. As stated by others as well, this deal isn't just about Joey, its about if we bend over and give him some record deal that Wennberg, Bob, Rychel, Milano, Heatherington, Murray, they'll all try to do the same, next thing you know, we are selling off good players b/c we can't afford to keep them.

Robbing Peter to pay Paul this year isn't good cap management...

 

[alphafox]

Page after page after page of Déjà vu. Brassard, davidbklyn, and zherdev all agree (shocking) and the rest disagree.

This is exactly why I've only posted a few times in this massive thread. The camps are set and everyone's mind is made up. Gotta love internet arguing.

 

[Mayor Bee]

Page after page after page of Déjà vu. Brassard, davidbklyn, and zherdev all agree (shocking) and the rest disagree.

And I don't have an opinion.

I know, I'm scared too.

 

[Doug19]

I have an opinion but there isn't a reason to mention it as it has been mentioned by about 50 other posters in this thread. Joey's worth more than 3 but nowhere close to what he's asking for. JD and JK are fighting the good fight as if you overpay this guy, whats going to stop Murray, a guy who looks like a big time guy, from asking for the moon too? Sure it's nice that we want to see our players get paid their due, but I'd also like to see this team that I've fallen in love with remain intact. Joey's contract has a real good shot of setting precedence going forward for THIS TEAM, I'd like to see a more conservative dollar value as the precedence.

 

[Sore Loser]

I'm not sure what's more impressive - the amount of times that this argument has revolved and wound right back to the same point - or the fact that this thread is on pace to get to 1000 posts in roughly a week.

 

[Zaddy91]

. Yes, his 33 goals were important to our success last year, but 33 goals can be made up easily by a committee of guys who work hard and want to be here.

The only person being hurt in this situation is Ryan Johansen. The sooner he realizes that and fires Kurt Overhardt, the better.

Johansen was a part of 63 goals last year. And 6 in the playoffs. Its not just a matter of the top 6 scoring 5 more goals each.

It seemed to me how could they not reach a 5 mil 2 yr deal without it reaching this. I suppose it really does set a precedent for the next round of stars not getting overpaid.

i suspect this will come down to cbj's performance if they do bad or good one side will crack and if they play .500 hockey than it will be unbelievably intense.

 

[db2011]

Page after page after page of Déjà vu. Brassard, davidbklyn, and zherdev all agree (shocking) and the rest disagree.

and thankfully Doug19 chimes in to get it wrong again (shocking)

actually, i think they have HUGE balls to do what they did...there is a lot of good information in this thread about extensions and post ELC contracts that I think JD/JK are right in line with their thinking. Like several others I first thought 5.5m a year would be good, but that number is high compared to players that showed more over the life of their ELCs compared to Joey. You can come in here and get boisterous all you want, what's said here is meaningless in the grand scheme.

I get you're frustrated with your perception of all the bad things JD/JK have done, but they've made some good moves (and some bad ones in hindsight), drafted well, and have us set up for sustained playoff runs in the future, not the 1 and done of the past.

I do think Joey should have stayed in town, and thus my "took his ball and went home" line. I saw Zito and Overhardt talking/meeting myself. A cooling off period was probably needed on both sides. As stated by others as well, this deal isn't just about Joey, its about if we bend over and give him some record deal that Wennberg, Bob, Rychel, Milano, Heatherington, Murray, they'll all try to do the same, next thing you know, we are selling off good players b/c we can't afford to keep them.

Robbing Peter to pay Paul this year isn't good cap management...

We have a lot of good young players coming up, one or two of whom will hopefully be in a position to make a lot of money playing hockey. I'm not seeing much in the way of encouraging news for those guys if management is going to steadfastly hold to a number that is too low, at least in the eyes of most here on this board if we are using DSL's survey of what people think Joey should make. JK has underpaid every RFA he's signed, and he's doing it again but with a big time player. Joey's agent is offering a lot of resistance and yes it's in the form of salary demands that are too high, but if the other kids' agents responsibly represent their clients when it comes to their next contracts, this could very well happen again.

I don't think I'm being boisterous, but if you don't like boisterous I suggest you not read what John Davidson has to say. On style points alone, CBJ management look like children. Davidson cracked and stopped being professional in these negotiations.

It doesn't take balls to lowball a player and stick to a "formula" regarding RFAs that keeps you in the safe zone. It's more impressive to take a risk on a kid for a two year contract. Except it's not a risk because they could come up from their terrible offer and not jeopardize the cap at all, and it's not a risk because we all know Joey was the best forward on the team last year and he'll be even better this year. They're playing it safe and trying to take Joey to the woodshed.