Ryan Johansen Saga III

[blahblah]

Here's my take on the bridge deal. I know they are looking at Stepan and Duchene. Ultimately Duchene had a sub-par year going into his bridge deal and Stepan isn't a goal scorer. Low 20's is really where he'll seem to be most years as a peak. He couldn't sustain that 16.7% rate.

Assuming Johansen can keep up 3 shots a game he's a 25-35 goal scorer, depending on where he can sustain his shot percentage.

From what I can see here Stepan is the best comparable based on that lock out shortened season. Johansen didn't have the career that Stepan had to that point and, pro-rated, Stepan had a similar season going into the bridge deal. With Stepan taking a step back on the goal scoring front; I can see the arguments on both sides.

Frankly, I think Johansen has earned more than what is considered the current ceiling on bridge deals. However, I don't think it's anywhere near the dollars that they are seeking. Personally I think we are in that 4-4.5 range. The precedent would be a 30 goal breakout season. I don't think that would make an immediate impact on future bridge deals as most teams just give those players 6 year deals anyway.

The issue here is that his agent want to get him payed like a veteran. He's said that more than one time. He's looking for the dollars that are standard in a UFA deal where the player has more history and is in a bidding war with other teams. That is a bit of an irrational stance on the agents side.

 

[Fro]

i can buy that logic Blahblah

 

[CBJFitzy]

Our front office is an embarrassment.

Weird, it seems that every single article I have read and almost all of the commentary from CBJ fans and others around the league completely support our front office on this one. You can certainly be embarrased if you want but I am not seeing a lot of other people joining your cause.

 

[Mayor Bee]

If he sits out the year, he stays where he is at with years in the system right? Meaning, he isnt one year closer to UFA status correct?

Correct.

 

[KanetoToews2883]

6 for 2 is pretty ridiculously low given the NHL's environment for a bridge deal. If they stepped it up to 8-9 for 2, I think we could all just go to bed happy knowing RJ was your #1C on Day 1. Hell, Justin Schultz got 3.675 for 1 year from Edmonton in a very similar spot. So again, the Jackets aren't blameless here. It seems like RJ's camp wants the 6 year money at the 2 year bridge, that also is pretty nonsensical.

So unfortunately you have this awful situation where one camp wants a 2 year deal at 6 mil per year, the other camp wants a 2 year deal at 3 mil per year OR a 8 year deal for 6 mil per year.

Neither side is willing to budge off of their high horse. Someone has to blink and go towards the middle or RyJo might Turris them. (Speaking of Turris, I wonder if the only reason that Turris was offered a contract when he did was because the Pho. GM (Maloney?) had a trade lined up to Ottawa already..).

 

[Mayor Bee]

Did David Koresh declare victory before burning down his commune? Do you think Koresh won?

According to witnesses, he did declare victory. And he did win; they didn't take him alive. He was too dead to bask in his proclaimed victory, but that's just splitting hairs.

 

[blahblah]

Nevermind

 

[William Hylander]

I say this every year, I wish that teams would actually offer sheet players more. Johansen is easily worth 6.5 million AAV, someone should just offer sheet him and stop doing favours for teams like Columbus.

The NHL has such a weird concept that RFA offer sheets are taboo even though in reality it regulates the market value of players if used correctly.

 

[Nanabijou]

That would require a massive undertaking at this point. Overhardt would need to be involved heavily to make sure wherever RyJo is traded to he would sign. For what happened yesterday, I think there will be a "cooling off" period between the sides. Eventually they will have to talk again, but right now, JD, Jarmo and Company should be completely focused on who's here and the season.

I agree with your last part that there will be a cooling off period now. But, Jarmo doesn't need any input from Overhardt to facilitate a trade. If a trade was to happen, the Jackets will be content to wait until an offer blows their socks off. It's the other teams's responsibility to figure out if they could get Joey to sign.

If a team like say Vancouver is interested, they are free to negotiate directly with Overhardt now - they don't need the Jackets to be involved in that discussion. They could find out what contract Joey is looking for themselves and then decide if it is better to sign him to that with an offer sheet (and lose picks) or offer a trade of current players/prospects.

If that happened, Jarmo just looks at the trade or the signed offer sheet and decides yes or no. He's not going to be involved in making sure Joey would sign for the other team if it was a trade. Basically, I don't think he's working the phones right now on Joey although he might soon start answering when they ring.

 

[DJA]

I say this every year, I wish that teams would actually offer sheet players more. Johansen is easily worth 6.5 million AAV, someone should just offer sheet him and stop doing favours for teams like Columbus.

The NHL has such a weird concept that RFA offer sheets are taboo even though in reality it regulates the market value of players if used correctly.

Exactly what "favours" is the league doing for "teams like Columbus"? Also, please tell me which team has the cap space and necessary draft picks to submit a legit offer sheet. (Hint: the Leafs aren't one of them.)

 

[We Want Ten]

I say this every year, I wish that teams would actually offer sheet players more. Johansen is easily worth 6.5 million AAV, someone should just offer sheet him and stop doing favours for teams like Columbus.

The NHL has such a weird concept that RFA offer sheets are taboo even though in reality it regulates the market value of players if used correctly.

Right aboot there the wheels fell off your argument wagon.

 

[CBJFitzy]

I say this every year, I wish that teams would actually offer sheet players more. Johansen is easily worth 6.5 million AAV, someone should just offer sheet him and stop doing favours for teams like Columbus.

The NHL has such a weird concept that RFA offer sheets are taboo even though in reality it regulates the market value of players if used correctly.

Do we know that RJ would actually sign an offer sheet for $6.5 million? I wonder if that would be viewed as an equivalent of a kick in the nuts because it isn't Malkin money.

At this point I have to believe any offer sheet that would be signed, assuming any team is crazy enough to offer it, would get the CBJ two #1 picks, a #2 and a #3. As for me, I am taking it and wishing the kid the best of luck.

 

[NotWendell]

He has no attitude problem or work ethic problem. He's trained his azz of this summer by all reports. There were zero reported attitude issues or work ethic issues at all last year...and if there were, why would Jarmo and JD be offering 6-8 year deals?

How you can you call yourself a "fan" of the team when promoting slander and lies about a player?

But yet you're just as willing to do the same to Jarmo and John Davidson? :snakehead
They're not the "embarrassment" here.

 

[jordanwill21]

4

Offer rejected by Johansen: 6-year, $32 million
Offer accepted by Rick Nash: 5-year, $27 million

I can't BELIEVE Johansen didn't accept this deal!!!

Johansen has 47 goals in three years

Rick nash gets 89 his first three years.

He needs a reality check, he hasn't had near the compete level that rick nash had when he was younger, almost twice as better numbers, and played on a less than stellar blue jackets team at the time.

Honestly i don't really care if he plays or not for us this year. We will make the playoffs without him, but the road to the cup may be a lot tougher without him. Who knows, maybe 1 or maybe more of our youngs studs will break out this year if he is absent.

We've shown more than enough commitment to him, it would be nice to get a little back in return...

 

[IHeartZherdev*]

Weird, it seems that every single article I have read and almost all of the commentary from CBJ fans and others around the league completely support our front office on this one. You can certainly be embarrased if you want but I am not seeing a lot of other people joining your cause.

If Joe Sakic and Patrick Roy can keep it classy during the Ryan O'Reilly contract saga, I see no reason why our front office should be acting like petulant children and making a public spectacle. It serves nothing but their egos to do so, it obviously doesn't help the team, the player, or the situation.

 

[Jive Pawnbroker]

That would require a massive undertaking at this point. Overhardt would need to be involved heavily to make sure wherever RyJo is traded to he would sign. For what happened yesterday, I think there will be a "cooling off" period between the sides. Eventually they will have to talk again, but right now, JD, Jarmo and Company should be completely focused on who's here and the season.

Just to clarify - I wasn't talking about trading Ryan; I was referring to who Jarmo could add to the roster by moving assets besides Ryan. I can see how my post could have been interpreted as it was, so my bad there.

To your point, it would probably be best to see how camp goes and then if there's an obvious need perhaps seek a trade if the Johansen camp won't budge on their demands.

 

[blahblah]

I say this every year, I wish that teams would actually offer sheet players more. Johansen is easily worth 6.5 million AAV, someone should just offer sheet him and stop doing favours for teams like Columbus.

The NHL has such a weird concept that RFA offer sheets are taboo even though in reality it regulates the market value of players if used correctly.

Actually I think an offer sheet would do the Jackets a favor. Having said that, there are only about 9 with the cap hit you are talking about. I haven't looked to see if they even have the picks. Some of those teams are budget teams and wouldn't be willing to put forth the offer sheet.

We've been over this a few times this summer. When things come down, there are probably about 2 or 3 teams that have the means and the desire.

 

[NotWendell]

The Jackets management team has been completely outclassed by Johansen's agent in this negotiation.

All we heard was: "He has to EARN it". "He has to PROVE himself".

Well after bleating this nonsense for 3 months, they completely caved on that position by offering an EIGHT YEAR deal. Now, that 8 year deal isn't near what it would need to be for Johansen to sign it, but that the organization was willing to go MAXIMUM TERM after holding steadfast in the "earn it" camp makes them look ridiculous. Which they are.

KO has won this negotiation. The Jackets will up their 6 year offer and it'll get done by the season's beginning, I would think. That it took them so long to start being reasonable is unfathomable. The dramatic flip flop on the term of the deal-from minimum bridge to maximum term-clearly suggests that the front office is operating without a coherent philosophy on contract negotiations for younger players.

It'll take another $500,000-$750,000 per year over the 6 year deal to get it done-no way does KO accept Skinner money after completely dismantling team Bozo (Zito, JK and JD). He's got all the leverage and now he's just going to jam it down their throats.

As he should.

This entire post is pure fantasy. Joey has NO leverage. If all they were asking for was another half-million, the deal would have been done weeks ago.

 

[CBJFitzy]

If Joe Sakic and Patrick Roy can keep it classy during the Ryan O'Reilly contract saga, I see no reason why our front office should be acting like petulant children and making a public spectacle. It serves nothing but their egos to do so, it obviously doesn't help the team, the player, or the situation.

I get why you say that, but I still can't agree. If we were at this point and Johansen is back in Canada and the team is only saying the PC thing and keeping it classy then they would be getting killed in the court of public opinion. The only reason the fans and the media are supporting them is because they made it public just how absurd the agent and the player are being. Could they have been a little less dramatic? Yes. But the underlying strategy was completely sound and in my opinion had to be done when they knew this was not going to be resolved any time soon.

 

[Fro]

difference in the ROR and Joey situation is that ROR had arbitration rights, so it didn't have to get to this level...or it could have...

 

[BF3]

View attachment 76075

@coreypronman: I could see a good argument from Johansen's camp he should be near the top of the comp list. But not 2-2.5X the average.

ROR is either an outlier or a trend. Outlier if you are FO, trend if you are agent. That, and it was an offer sheet, so it really isn't a comparable.

 

[Wendy Clear]

If Joe Sakic and Patrick Roy can keep it classy during the Ryan O'Reilly contract saga, I see no reason why our front office should be acting like petulant children and making a public spectacle. It serves nothing but their egos to do so, it obviously doesn't help the team, the player, or the situation.

Actually they accomplish the most important thing: confirming to the fans that they have in fact offered multiple fair, appropriate contracts and that if RJ didn't have his head stuck up his ass, he'd already be signed by now. If they didn't, there'd always be a seed of doubt that maybe the Jackets are being cheap. But they're not. I can live with that. I'd be angry at them if I knew otherwise. Kinda like you, minus the facts.

 

[IHeartZherdev*]

But yet you're just as willing to do the same to Jarmo and John Davidson? :snakehead
They're not the "embarrassment" here.

I'm not doing the same to JD and Jarmo. Again, I'm using facts and reality.

You and your crew blast Joey for being spoiled, entitled, and claim he has attitude issues and work ethic issues. Yet you and Fro have no proof, no examples, no reports, nothing even circumstantial to make this case. Yes, he was benched a couple years ago in Springfield. It happened, he learned from it, and moved on. Doesn't appear to be a lingering or repeating issue. And you have ZERO other examples.

I can point to other front offices, whether it be St. Louis (Sobotka), Dallas (Benn), Colorado (O'Reilly), or Montreal (Subban), who have gone through difficult negotiations and holdouts yet have not come out and involved the public, media, and fans. I want what's best for the Blue Jackets and that is to get Joey signed and in camp. There public hissy fit didn't help accomplish that, but it did help get them a ton of press.

So I look at their actions, and the result of their actions, and that's what I come away with. Their actions don't help the team, or help the player get signed - so it's a negative in this situation.

And of course they also refused to meet with the agent... but it got them a lot of media coverage and a lot of media and fans reaction. I mean you have people here now advocating now for a Joey trade and saying things like "JARMO POWER." How is that good for the Blue Jackets or this Joey situation? It isn't. Clearly JD and Jarmo are putting the public perception of themselves above the best interests of the team. What's best for the team is to get Joey signed, and in camp. I'm not saying they have to "cave" but they can get their azzes in a room with KO and hammer out a deal, not hammer out TSN interviews.

 

[Nanabijou]

View attachment 76075

@coreypronman: I could see a good argument from Johansen's camp he should be near the top of the comp list. But not 2-2.5X the average.

Yeah, I had meant to mention this before. That's an interesting way to visualize the comparisons - thanks for posting.

 

[Zaddy91]

Actually they accomplish the most important thing: confirming to the fans that they have in fact offered multiple fair, appropriate contracts and that if RJ didn't have his head stuck up his ass, he'd already be signed by now. If they didn't, there'd always be a seed of doubt that maybe the Jackets are being cheap. But they're not. I can live with that. I'd be angry at them if I knew otherwise. Kinda like you, minus the facts.

It's your opinion that a 5.56 AAV 8 yr deal is a fair and appropriate contract.

It's my opinion that's larceny. And Johansen should hold out until he gets his 5 mil a year he deserves on a 2yr deal.