Ryan Johansen Saga III
- Thread starter Samkow
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and as I have pointed out, they haven't been. Just the Springfield benching. If you've got another example of a work ethic or attitude issue, especially one recently, like last season, I'd love to hear it. I'm asking you and Lee, right now, prove me wrong and show me why Joey is low-character guy with attitude and work ethic issues.
If you can't, we can continue to disagree about contract, but I'll ask you to stop with the character bashing if you cannot back it up with some sort of factual reporting.
Funny how both you and lee insist there is known issues, but when asked for details, can't provide any and just say they've already been listed...
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I was against it before, but I think Columbus should take any offer sheet that gets them two or four #1's.
Xoggz22
Registered User
If it has been said already, my apologies.... One point that I take great interest in with the release of the proposed contract offers is that it becomes pretty clear that were he to sign an offer sheet the compensation to CBJ would be very high. 8 yrs at $46M is $5.75 per year. Probably a little low in reality but for an offer sheet of 7 yrs(max possible) the equivalent would be $41M roughly. With a max calculation using 5 yrs to determine compensation that would be >$8M per and 4 first round picks.
that's an offer sheet simply MATCHING the CBJ offer. Presumably Ovehardt needs something bigger to move the negotiations. You can look at the 6yr the same way but that is unlikely to yield the 4 firsts but still a big penalty. Point is, releasing the numbers puts pressure, in my opinion, on the player/agent because signing an offer sheet for the equivalent or less wouldn't fit their position of #1C deserving money now.
hopefully my point comes through. I hate doing this on a phone....
that's an offer sheet simply MATCHING the CBJ offer. Presumably Ovehardt needs something bigger to move the negotiations. You can look at the 6yr the same way but that is unlikely to yield the 4 firsts but still a big penalty. Point is, releasing the numbers puts pressure, in my opinion, on the player/agent because signing an offer sheet for the equivalent or less wouldn't fit their position of #1C deserving money now.
hopefully my point comes through. I hate doing this on a phone....
Management is using Stepan, Duchene, Couture to come up with their bridge offer. It's a little low, but Joey only has one good season. Still, all three got 5-6% of the cap at the time and for two years.
Overhardt wants double that on a bridge. No one in their right mind would compare Joey to Toews, Stamkos, or Kane.
2 years/$6 million doesn't quite get them up to Duchene or Stepan, but come on...2 years/$13m? If I was JD I would have gone 2/$8 million and then made that the offer you go public with if KO turns it down.
Even if you use % of cap (not $ amounts), you can come up with something reasonable along the lines of Duchene, Stepan, or Couture and their bridge deals. Where is this 2 year / $12-$13 million comparable coming from? (And please don't give me "but Edmonton...")
Overhardt wants double that on a bridge. No one in their right mind would compare Joey to Toews, Stamkos, or Kane.
2 years/$6 million doesn't quite get them up to Duchene or Stepan, but come on...2 years/$13m? If I was JD I would have gone 2/$8 million and then made that the offer you go public with if KO turns it down.
Even if you use % of cap (not $ amounts), you can come up with something reasonable along the lines of Duchene, Stepan, or Couture and their bridge deals. Where is this 2 year / $12-$13 million comparable coming from? (And please don't give me "but Edmonton...")
Nona Di Giuseppe
Registered User
He was 12th in the league in scoring.
Anything less than 4.5 on a short term deal is a joke. I don't care about 'bridge contracts'. He scored 33 goals and nothing has suggested he couldn't do it again.
If the team doesn't have confidence in him, they need to deal with it. He put up the points, pay dis man his maney.
Exactly. I would think long and hard about just taking the picks, too, and that wasn't the way I was thinking before.
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We Want Ten
Johnny Gaudreau
4.5 million is a lot less than 6 million. I think that's more than reasonable. Too bad we're not the agent.
I'm on record for saying he deserves $5 million, but that's before he became a training camp holdout to the detriment of the entire team.
Nona Di Giuseppe
Registered User
The point is that in the case of 6mil, it would be WELL underpaying him. Not SLIGHTLY underpaying him as it is with ANY long term deal ANY player signs.
Too bad Jarmo and JD refused to meet with the agent and negotiate and sent Joey home to vancouver. Agent was in town and ready to talk and Jarmo refused to meet face to face and went on a media tour.
We Want Ten
Johnny Gaudreau
Does it ever occur to you that the agent might refuse to come down?
Besides, Stamkos, Kane, and Toews don't play for 4.5, neither would Johan since according to Overhardt they are all interchangeable.
I said he was anti-bridge? No, I said his agent wants it both ways. They want a short term deal to maximize compensation in his next contract AND they want him to be payed like a veteran UFA. The agent has stated this both in recent interviews and in his demands of $6-7 mil per year on a bridge.
Again, if you believe you are a 1C, show me for longer than 8 months and you will make bank on the next deal after the bridge eats up two RFA years. Or, you can take guaranteed money right now that may be underpaying you in 3-4 years when you hit UFA (if you are still a 1C that is) or last season may turn out to be a fluke, but you still get $50 mil.
Again, I think RyJo is solid and he will be a #1 center, but that doesn't mean they should pay him like one when they don't have to. There is nothing out there that shows he should be making more than $3-4 mil on an RFA bridge.
Except his first two years in the league. And an absurdly high shooting percentage last year (outlier? maybe).
Fro and Lee gone silent when asked for to back up or list some facts that show Ryan Johansen has attitude and work ethic issues.
At least I'll attempt to explain why and back up my opinions even if they are unpopular or disagreed with. Still waiting on someone using the "Joey has bad character" argument (EDM, Jacks Johnson, Fro, Lee, etc) to list me some examples or back that argument up.
At least I'll attempt to explain why and back up my opinions even if they are unpopular or disagreed with. Still waiting on someone using the "Joey has bad character" argument (EDM, Jacks Johnson, Fro, Lee, etc) to list me some examples or back that argument up.
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Except his first two seasons.
Forgot about this as well...good point. I think his shots per game goes up though and compensates for the shooting percentage.
EspenK
Registered User
- Sep 25, 2011
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Interesting point. I hadn't thought of it in those terms but I think you are spot on. Very devious of the boys if this was their play.
And it looks like it has been deleted but in regards to that present value analysis,if you discount PK Subban's 9 mill at 8% he too will be grossly underpaid towards the end of his contract.
that's a bad argument. You seriously think the barometer of what a player will do in the prime of their careers is what they do as a 19 year old, when they haven't even gotten into their man-body yet and are playing limited 4th line minutes? OK then.
CentreKeeper12
TheCentreKeeper
Your using more than the past year as an argument. I thought is was established that you can never do that.
I have no doubt this came into consideration and influenced their offers, and its a great point. CBJFO are using the terms of the CBA to their full advantage while they can. RyJo will be able to exert a lot more pressure in two years.
Nope, one season with an unsustainable shooting percentage apparently is though. It works both ways.
If you want the big dollars in long term deals out of your ELC then yes your performance over all three years does matter.
Having said that almost 13 minutes a night in his rookie year, well that's a lot of minutes for the 4th line and he played 16 the second year.
Don't make excuses. Toews, Taveres, and Stamkos all had infinitely better starts to their careers and the Jackets already offered him close to Taveres money. They had he put up 70-80 goals in his first three season, this would be a different conversation.
CentreKeeper12
TheCentreKeeper
A mind and habits are a very hard thing to change. You see players all the time bust their butts in a contract year to cash in, then go on cruise control.
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