Ryan Johansen Saga III

[IHeartZherdev*]

if I say you're wrong and I ignore the posts where you tell me I'm wrong, then who's right?

I will admit I am wrong if you or lee can produce a post showing some factual evidence of Joey having attitude or work ethic issues aside from one benching in springfield 2 years ago. For some reason, you can't.

Being involved in a contract dispute does not mean he is a low character guy with attitude issues. By that standard, Jamie Benn, PK Subban, Ryan O'Reilly, Shea Weber, Derek Stepan, Brandon Dubisnky, etc etc are all low character guys with attitude issues....

Just produce some evidence to support your argument outside of being benched one time. That's all I'm asking. If Joey was half as bad as you act like he is, there would be at least a couple other instances you could point too.

 

[Jackets16]

For the "Joey is a Diva" crew:


Jack Johnson had a dispute and refused to play for Carolina. Tim Erixon forced a trade out of Calgary. Brandon Dubinsky held out of NY Rangers camp.

All of the nonsense you guys are spitting at Ryan Johansen must apply tenfold to those players based on your standards right? Do you think Jack, Dubie, and Erixon are all entitled divas?

What do those players have to do with Johansen? Yes, at one point, THEY WERE. They have grown up and matured. Also, none of them actually still play for the team they had problems with. You see the pattern?

 

[Jackets16]

I will admit I am wrong if you or lee can produce a post showing some factual evidence of Joey having attitude or work ethic issues aside from one benching in springfield 2 years ago.

No you won't and they have.

 

[IHeartZherdev*]

He showed great growth and we will all move past it as he builds a bigger track record. But, it's like going to an insurance company and saying that you should get the best rate because you only had one accident where you totaled your car, but that was over a year ago and it was only because you were drunk at the time.

Yeah, it's just like that.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

A few stats for thought:

1) Johansen's 1.32 goals per 60 minutes of even strength play was tied for 5th among ALL NHL players last year. It was a rate more than 2.25 times that (0.59) of the laughable Stepan "comp"

2) Johansen was 11th in goal in the NHL last year

3) Johansen's 63 points were 24% more than the next leading Jacket had (Wiz-51)

4) His 63 points were 26% greater than the Jackets 2nd leader forward scorer (Dubi-50).

5) His 63 points were 58% more than the 3rd leading Jackets forward (Cam-40).

Digest these. He scored 58% more points than the 3rd leading forward and he didn't play with either #2 or #3. The kid is the best forward on this team by such a huge margin that it's not funny.

If anyone thinks that Joey has zero leverage because of the CBA, they are really fooling themselves.

The Jackets are most likely not a playoff team without Johansen.

 

[CentreKeeper12]

For the "Joey is a Diva" crew:


Jack Johnson had a dispute and refused to play for Carolina. Tim Erixon forced a trade out of Calgary. Brandon Dubinsky held out of NY Rangers camp.

All of the nonsense you guys are spitting at Ryan Johansen must apply tenfold to those players based on your standards right? Do you think Jack, Dubie, and Erixon are all entitled divas?

Jack never refused to play for Carolina. From what I understand, he wanted to go back to Michigan for another year and Carolina didn't like that so they traded him. Dubi had a couple nice season before his holdout and wanted a bigger raise. Joey had only one good year a 2 bad years so his differ from JJ and Dubi. I don't know enough about Erixon and Calgary to compare it+

 

[IHeartZherdev*]

This seems to say for the first two years.....But the organization’s position on Johansen is well-established.
The Blue Jackets spent the first two years of Johansen’s career with a firm boot behind him, insisting he play with a drive and passion that didn’t seem to come to him naturally or consistently.
It came to a head last year. After Johansen had been sent to the minor leagues to keep playing when the Blue Jackets’ season ended, Johansen was made a healthy scratch in an American Hockey League playoff game because coaches didn’t like his effort level.

I love this. I ask for a factual event other than the springfield benching that shows ryan johansen is a bad character guy. And you literally respond with the springfield benching. get over it.

Whats more important/relevent...being scratched in the AHL playoffs two seasons ago, or being a beast throughout a full season of the NHL and playoffs last season?

 

[Fro]

A few stats for thought:

1) Johansen's 1.32 goals per 60 minutes of even strength play was tied for 5th among ALL NHL players last year. It was a rate more than 2.25 times that (0.59) of the laughable Stepan "comp"

2) Johansen was 11th in goal in the NHL last year

3) Johansen's 63 points were 24% more than the next leading Jacket had (Wiz-51)

4) His 63 points were 26% greater than the Jackets 2nd leader forward scorer (Dubi-50).

5) His 63 points were 58% more than the 3rd leading Jackets forward (Cam-40).

Digest these. He scored 58% more points than the 3rd leading forward and he didn't play with either #2 or #3. The kid is the best forward on this team by such a huge margin that it's not funny.

If anyone thinks that Joey has zero leverage because of the CBA, they are really fooling themselves.

The Jackets are most likely not a playoff team without Johansen.

his stats for one year were great...the point being made is can he sustain that and grow...sign the bridge deal, prove it, get paid...the CBJ are even saying that...JD...did in an interview...

 

[Mayor Bee]

For the "Joey is a Diva" crew:


Jack Johnson had a dispute and refused to play for Carolina. Tim Erixon forced a trade out of Calgary. Brandon Dubinsky held out of NY Rangers camp.

All of the nonsense you guys are spitting at Ryan Johansen must apply tenfold to those players based on your standards right? Do you think Jack, Dubie, and Erixon are all entitled divas?

Johnson was offered an ELC and didn't sign so he could play in college. It was offered again, and he had the same reaction and was traded.

Calling him an "entitled diva" would be like calling Matt Calvert the same for not signing his ELC so he could play his overage season in the WHL.

 

[We Want Ten]

He doesn't. Otherwise the Jackets would offer him league min.

Lol Wut?

Johansen doesn't need to settle for what the Jackets are offering

Does he want to play in the NHL?

 

[William Hylander]

Lol Wut?


Does he want to play in the NHL?

Offersheets don't exist?

 

[Nanabijou]

Yeah, it's just like that.

The point was it is such a big red flag that it doesn't get completely wiped from the record after a year of no incidents. Had to make it a more heavy-handed analogy because you don't seem to deal in subtleties.

 

[Fro]

Offersheets don't exist?

has one been presented? no one has reported such so in this case, they do not

 

[We Want Ten]

Offersheets don't exist?

Where are they?

 

[IHeartZherdev*]

The point was it is such a big red flag that it doesn't get completely wiped from the record after a year of no incidents. Had to make it a more heavy-handed analogy because you don't seem to deal in subtleties.

I wonder if he'll even be let back into America once the government gets a wind of his springfield benching 2 years ago.

 

[IHeartZherdev*]

Jaden Schwartz still doesn't have a contract with the Blues, so he won't be in attendance for the start of training camp.
"We've had dialogue recently," Blues GM Doug Armstrong said. "But I don't know when he's going to be here. He's not here today, I don't expect him here tomorrow. And we're just going to now concentrate on the players that are here, try and find some synergy with the centermen that are in camp with some wingers and when Jaden reports, when we get a contract done with him, he can work his way back into that group. But right now it's focus on the guys that are here."

That is how you handle a contract dispute with class and integrity without burning any bridges or damaging your reputation with players and agents in the future. No wonder St. Louis has gotten better since JD and Jarmo got canned.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Per Fro/Porty the offers were within the past three weeks, so let's assume that this represents a deviation from the FO's earlier stance.

You're calling this "caving." Others might call it "negotiating." I've been reading a lot about two sides stake out turf and then move toward each other. So if the organization is caving, the player and agent should: a) believe they "have them right where we want them" and continue to hold fast to earlier-stated positions; or b) move toward the "caved" position because that's how these thing are supposed to work?

And if a $35 mil over 6 years would have been acceptable early in the process, why is it not now?

If your read of the situation is correct and the Jackets are "caving," how much longer should the player and agent allow them to crumble before deigning to make its own move?

The huge "about face" regarding term and in light of any management statements which I have read/heard are why I categorize the CBJ as "caving". Perhaps it could be viewed as normal negotiations, but holding so firm on the bridge for so long-especially in light of the Subban situation-makes it poor negotiating strategy if not a full blown "caving".

I would think that having Johansen leave town is just another piece of the negotiating strategy of KO given JDs over-the-top comments of the last few days. It's just to exert a bit more pressure on a guy who is not dealing well with the situation.

I'd suggest that KO will counter with a $42 million/6 year deal within the week. I don't have any reason to believe that the Johansen camp realistically expect anything more than 6 years at roughly $6 million per. Once JD bumps the $32 million offer a few million to make it a direct comp with the Skinner and other similar deals, then one can start using stop watches to estimate when the deal will get done.

If the Johansen camp won't settle for $36 million for 6 years, then it's all on them. It's just too bad that the Jackets management team was so inept in this process that long term deals just became part of the framework in the last two weeks-at most.

 

[Kev22]

has one been presented? no one has reported such so in this case, they do not

Personally, I think yesterday's public disclosure of all the offers thrown to Joey were to avoid another team signing Joey to an offer sheet. I think that JD/JK believe that they've made the correct comparables and showing their hand to the competition will avoid another GM "offer sheeting" Joey. The face value of those comments certainly seemed to be PR driven, but to me, there was more to it than that. Strictly my opinion.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Jaden Schwartz still doesn't have a contract with the Blues, so he won't be in attendance for the start of training camp.
"We've had dialogue recently," Blues GM Doug Armstrong said. "But I don't know when he's going to be here. He's not here today, I don't expect him here tomorrow. And we're just going to now concentrate on the players that are here, try and find some synergy with the centermen that are in camp with some wingers and when Jaden reports, when we get a contract done with him, he can work his way back into that group. But right now it's focus on the guys that are here."

That is how you handle a contract dispute with class and integrity without burning any bridges or damaging your reputation with players and agents in the future. No wonder St. Louis has gotten better since JD and Jarmo got canned.

Yeah those first/second round exits were great.

 

[Nanabijou]

I wonder if he'll even be let back into America once the government gets a wind of his springfield benching 2 years ago.

As I said, subtlety doesn't work with you.

No one is asking for a pound of flesh from him. I've yet to see someone here who isn't fine with giving him at least 3 or 4 million dollars for the next couple of years. But, it's not like his track record (which includes what happened in Springfield if you would rather ignore it or not) is as clean as Crosby, Toews, Stamkos, etc were - you know, the players his agent is trying to compare him to - to warrant the big payday right now.

 

[Kev22]

Jaden Schwartz still doesn't have a contract with the Blues, so he won't be in attendance for the start of training camp.
"We've had dialogue recently," Blues GM Doug Armstrong said. "But I don't know when he's going to be here. He's not here today, I don't expect him here tomorrow. And we're just going to now concentrate on the players that are here, try and find some synergy with the centermen that are in camp with some wingers and when Jaden reports, when we get a contract done with him, he can work his way back into that group. But right now it's focus on the guys that are here."

That is how you handle a contract dispute with class and integrity without burning any bridges or damaging your reputation with players and agents in the future. No wonder St. Louis has gotten better since JD and Jarmo got canned.

Actually, those comments sound similar to Jarmo's. JD is really the one that's went off the cliff.

Just curious, how has St. Louis gotten better? I don't see any cup banners raised there. I don't think they've gotten past the second round of the playoffs recently. They are a good regular season team, but get exposed in the playoffs. I'm not really defending JK/JD, but I don't think they were the problem.

 

[IHeartZherdev*]

Yeah those first/second round exits were great.

The Blues are still the Blues but the franchise hasn't missed a beat since losing the ego twins.

 

[Socks]

I am so ****ing fed up with everything about this. Sign him. Don't sign him. Trade him. Don't trade him. String him up at center ice. Give him the keys to the city. And all of us (myself included) can go suck a great big turd. All this bickering is giving me a headache.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

Jaden Schwartz still doesn't have a contract with the Blues, so he won't be in attendance for the start of training camp.
"We've had dialogue recently," Blues GM Doug Armstrong said. "But I don't know when he's going to be here. He's not here today, I don't expect him here tomorrow. And we're just going to now concentrate on the players that are here, try and find some synergy with the centermen that are in camp with some wingers and when Jaden reports, when we get a contract done with him, he can work his way back into that group. But right now it's focus on the guys that are here."

That is how you handle a contract dispute with class and integrity without burning any bridges or damaging your reputation with players and agents in the future. No wonder St. Louis has gotten better since JD and Jarmo got canned.

St Louis was a first place team and won a series with them. Without them, they are not a first place team and are 0-2 in the playoffs.

That was a nice try, though.

 

[IHeartZherdev*]

St Louis was a first place team and won a series with them. Without them, they are not a first place team and are 0-2 in the playoffs.

That was a nice try, though.

You're right, Jarmo and JD played great that series. They're the difference between the series wins and losses.