Ryan Johansen Saga III

[DJA]

It's your opinion that a 5.56 AAV 8 yr deal is a fair and appropriate contract.

It's my opinion that's larceny. And Johansen should hold out until he gets his 5 mil a year he deserves on a 2yr deal.

He won't be playing this season then. And then he can try again next year when the offer becomes even lower.

 

[IHeartZherdev*]

Actually they accomplish the most important thing: confirming to the fans that they have in fact offered multiple fair, appropriate contracts and that if RJ didn't have his head stuck up his ass, he'd already be signed by now. If they didn't, there'd always be a seed of doubt that maybe the Jackets are being cheap. But they're not. I can live with that. I'd be angry at them if I knew otherwise. Kinda like you, minus the facts.

Those offers weren't fair on a bunch of levels.

And again, you are launching a personal attack at Joey "RJ has his head stuck up his ***" meanwhile, both him and his agent were in town and ready to work out a deal and JD and Jarmo refused to come to the table and instead went on a media tour.

Going to throw out something from twitter, not from me, but something I agree with.


@Jibblescribbits
5% inflation:
'14: $6M
'15: $5.44
'16: $5.18
'17: $4.94
'18: $4.70
'19: $4.48
'20: $4.26
'21: $4.06


Still not a good deal with 5 UFA years

@Jibblescribbits
and 5 of those 8 years are UFA years (the last three). That's a HORRIBLE deal designed to look great on paper

@Jibblescribbits
Here's Johansen's deal w/ 8% inflation
'14-15: $6M
'15: $5.55M
'16: $5.1M
'17: $4.76
'18: $4.41
'19: $4.08
'20: $3.78
'21: $3.51
'22: $3.24

@Jibblescribbits
The Cap hit over the last 10y has averaged an increase of about 8% per year: that includes the financial crisis in there...

@Jibblescribbits
Look 8y and $48M is a big number, any one of us would love to make that much money (or 1/10th) of it over the next 8y, but...

@Jibblescribbits
The Johansen 'Deal'thrown out by Columbus is such a management deal it's hilarious.

But the point is, like these tweets are saying, average fans just look at the money and term and assume it's a great deal, Jarmo power, without examining any closer. They are not good deals and I can see why his agent didn't just accept them. No reason why Jarmo and JD can't talk to the agent and negotiate.

 

[KJ Dangler]

Thing is, if he sits out till december then finally signs a 2 year bridge, most likely it will take him a month or 2 to getting up to hockey speed, which means his stats suffer. I would have to think that will affect his next contract, (with maybe 2 of his 5 years with good stats) and amount of money he should be slated to get ?

Honestly, the kid just seems like an enigma, if he thinks he deserves to be paid like a veteran, he so good that all the other comparables dont apply to him, becasue of his one good year, I think it may be time to explore what we can get for him. My understanding, he cant refuse a trade, right ?

 

[Fro]

Dan P. ‏@DP_Cannon 21m
#CBJ players speaking to the media seem confident deal w/ Johansen will get done fairly soon. Staying out of it otherwise, as you'd expect.

 

[CBJFitzy]

But the point is, like these tweets are saying, average fans just look at the money and term and assume it's a great deal, Jarmo power, without examining any closer. They are not good deals and I can see why his agent didn't just accept them. No reason why Jarmo and JD can't talk to the agent and negotiate.

NO. Average fans say that he has two options - he can either take a short term deal for fair market value and PROVE that he can reproduce his one great year or take a longer deal and all of the security that comes with it knowing that he is leaving money on the table if he really is the second coming of Steven Stamkos. OR - he can sit at home and take a daily call from his agent telling him how awesome he is while he makes exactly $0. Ball is in his court.

 

[Mayor Bee]

Thing is, if he sits out till december then finally signs a 2 year bridge, most likely it will take him a month or 2 to getting up to hockey speed, which means his stats suffer. I would have to think that will affect his next contract, (with maybe 2 of his 5 years with good stats) and amount of money he should be slated to get ?

Honestly, the kid just seems like an enigma, if he thinks he deserves to be paid like a veteran, he so good that all the other comparables dont apply to him, becasue of his one good year, I think it may be time to explore what we can get for him. My understanding, he cant refuse a trade, right ?

Deadline is December 1, 5:00 PM EST.

I wish I could remember which NFL GM it was a few years ago who dealt with rookie holdouts by getting to a certain point and then just saying, "This is your last best offer. If you don't sign it, the offer decreases by $100,000 per year for every day that you're not in camp. Feel free to re-enter the draft, and just hope that a team will draft someone who will have not played football in a year and make an offer anywhere close to this one."

 

[BF3]

It's your opinion that a 5.56 AAV 8 yr deal is a fair and appropriate contract.

It's my opinion that's larceny. And Johansen should hold out until he gets his 5 mil a year he deserves on a 2yr deal.

10 posts ago he deserved 6 mil yr on a bridge. I think CBJ are willing to wait until every realizes its 4 mil yr.

 

[Wendy Clear]

Why do a certain few (and they are heavily outnumbered, as they should be, but still) insist on repeating that they aren't fair offers? They categorically ARE fair offers according to the very thing all RFA contracts are based on: the contracts signed by similar aged players of similar talent and production.

Even though, hilariously, those players have actually produced MORE in most cases. I have yet to see one single example of a player getting $5m+ on a 2-year bridge or $6m++ on a LTD after producing for one measly season. Anyone, anyone?

 

[Fro]

Why do a certain few (and they are heavily outnumbered, as they should be, but still) insist on repeating that they aren't fair offers? They categorically ARE fair offers according to the very thing all RFA contracts are based on: the contracts signed by similar aged players of similar talent and production.

Even though, hilariously, those players have actually produced MORE in most cases. I have yet to see one single example of a player getting $5m+ on a 2-year bridge or $6m++ on a LTD after producing for one measly season. Anyone, anyone?

b/c if they say it enough times maybe someone will believe them...

 

[BF3]

But the point is, like these tweets are saying, average fans just look at the money and term and assume it's a great deal, Jarmo power, without examining any closer. They are not good deals and I can see why his agent didn't just accept them. No reason why Jarmo and JD can't talk to the agent and negotiate.

This assumes he continues on his current trend, where as it stands, isn't a trend. Last season is an outlier as of now.

That's why bridge contracts exist, for these scenarios. Prove you are a #1 center for longer than 8 months.

1) Take $3.5 mil AAV for 2 years now when you have ZERO leverage, get $9 mil+ AAV over 8 years when you have SOME leverage after you continue on this upward trend.

Or

2) Take the $6 mil AAV for 8 years.

You can't have it both ways. CBJFO is offering both options - this is 100% on RyJo and his agent.

 

[We Want Ten]

Why do a certain few (and they are heavily outnumbered, as they should be, but still) insist on repeating that they aren't fair offers? They categorically ARE fair offers according to the very thing all RFA contracts are based on: the contracts signed by similar aged players of similar talent and production.

Even though, hilariously, those players have actually produced MORE in most cases. I have yet to see one single example of a player getting $5m+ on a 2-year bridge or $6m++ on a LTD after producing for one measly season. Anyone, anyone?

Almost $50 million for 1 good year and its "unfair", lol.

 

[NotWendell]

I'm not doing the same to JD and Jarmo. Again, I'm using facts and reality.

You and your crew blast Joey for being spoiled, entitled, and claim he has attitude issues and work ethic issues. Yet you and Fro have no proof, no examples, no reports, nothing even circumstantial to make this case. Yes, he was benched a couple years ago in Springfield. It happened, he learned from it, and moved on. Doesn't appear to be a lingering or repeating issue. And you have ZERO other examples.

I can point to other front offices, whether it be St. Louis (Sobotka), Dallas (Benn), Colorado (O'Reilly), or Montreal (Subban), who have gone through difficult negotiations and holdouts yet have not come out and involved the public, media, and fans. I want what's best for the Blue Jackets and that is to get Joey signed and in camp. There public hissy fit didn't help accomplish that, but it did help get them a ton of press.

So I look at their actions, and the result of their actions, and that's what I come away with. Their actions don't help the team, or help the player get signed - so it's a negative in this situation.

And of course they also refused to meet with the agent... but it got them a lot of media coverage and a lot of media and fans reaction. I mean you have people here now advocating now for a Joey trade and saying things like "JARMO POWER." How is that good for the Blue Jackets or this Joey situation? It isn't. Clearly JD and Jarmo are putting the public perception of themselves above the best interests of the team. What's best for the team is to get Joey signed, and in camp. I'm not saying they have to "cave" but they can get their azzes in a room with KO and hammer out a deal, not hammer out TSN interviews.

The facts have all been laid out in this thread with links to reliable sources for proof. You just choose to ignore them. When a reasonable thinking person looks beyond this contract, looks at the contracts down the road that will need to be signed, many with this agent, it's easy to understand why this is good for the team long term.

A person can bash Joey, the front office and whoever we want and still be a "fan" of the team.

One of these days I'll learn to quit feeding trolls with responses like this.

 

[Nona Di Giuseppe]

NO. Average fans say that he has two options - he can either take a short term deal for fair market value and PROVE that he can reproduce his one great year or take a longer deal and all of the security that comes with it knowing that he is leaving money on the table if he really is the second coming of Steven Stamkos. OR - he can sit at home and take a daily call from his agent telling him how awesome he is while he makes exactly $0. Ball is in his court.

I think this is the fundamental problem here. His currently market value is exceptionally higher than his current offer.

He may as well push for a contract that ends his first year of free agency and get bank then if they're going to not pay up.

 

[IHeartZherdev*]

The facts have all been laid out in this thread with links to reliable sources for proof. You just choose to ignore them. When a reasonable thinking person looks beyond this contract, looks at the contracts down the road that will need to be signed, many with this agent, it's easy to understand why this is good for the team long term.

A person can bash Joey, the front office and whoever we want and still be a "fan" of the team.

One of these days I'll learn to quit feeding trolls with responses like this.

There have been no facts. If there, give some right now, aside from the Springfield benching, that proves that Ryan Johansen has attitude and work ethic issues.

 

[Fro]

One of these days I'll learn to quit feeding trolls with responses like this.

sadly, we won't...

 

[CBJFitzy]

I think this is the fundamental problem here. His currently market value is exceptionally higher than his current offer.

He may as well push for a contract that ends his first year of free agency and get bank then if they're going to not pay up.

If that were the case then the market would naturally react with an aceptable offer sheet. Still waiting for that to happen.

 

[IHeartZherdev*]

This assumes he continues on his current trend, where as it stands, isn't a trend. Last season is an outlier as of now.

That's why bridge contracts exist, for these scenarios. Prove you are a #1 center for longer than 8 months.

1) Take $3.5 mil AAV for 2 years now when you have ZERO leverage, get $9 mil+ AAV over 8 years when you have SOME leverage after you continue on this upward trend.

Or

2) Take the $6 mil AAV for 8 years.

You can't have it both ways. CBJFO is offering both options - this is 100% on RyJo and his agent.

Again, someone twisting the argument into a "this is why bridge contract exists" as if RyJo is holding out because he is anti-bridge. Puh-leeze.

Him and his agent (it was reported by Porty) agreed to the two-year term. They were "light years" apart on yearly salary. JD confirmed this in his comments yesterday, where he said they wanted double what the Jackets were offering.

Jackets are offering 2 years, $6 million. That is $3 million per. That is a lowball offer.

Joey is asking for $6 million per. That may be a little high but that is 1st line center money. This is where you negotiate and meet in the middle, not throw a hissy fit and say take it or fly back to vancouver.

 

[Nona Di Giuseppe]

This assumes he continues on his current trend, where as it stands, isn't a trend. Last season is an outlier as of now.

That's why bridge contracts exist, for these scenarios. Prove you are a #1 center for longer than 8 months.

1) Take $3.5 mil AAV for 2 years now when you have ZERO leverage, get $9 mil+ AAV over 8 years when you have SOME leverage after you continue on this upward trend.

Or

2) Take the $6 mil AAV for 8 years.

You can't have it both ways. CBJFO is offering both options - this is 100% on RyJo and his agent.

In 6 years, getting 6 mil will be peanuts and grossly underpaying him when he should be in his prime and getting paid max value.

 

[Crede777]

If that were the case then the market would naturally react with an aceptable offer sheet. Still waiting for that to happen.

Agreed.

There is only one buyer here and it's the CBJ. They get to dictate cost to a large extent. Once there are more actors or teams in play, then the player has leverage.

 

[IHeartZherdev*]

sadly, we won't...

I noticed you didn't repsond either when asked with facts to support your "work ethic" and "attitude issues" character shots at Joey. If you have some, please list them and prove me wrong. You're the one with sources, not me.

 

[Socks]

It's your opinion that a 5.56 AAV 8 yr deal is a fair and appropriate contract.

It's my opinion that's larceny. And Johansen should hold out until he gets his 5 mil a year he deserves on a 2yr deal.

Fess up. You are Joey aren't you? Or at least his mama.

 

[Nona Di Giuseppe]

If that were the case then the market would naturally react with an aceptable offer sheet. Still waiting for that to happen.

Wot?

Offer sheets dont happen because the compensation for any player with value is too significant.

There's nothing natural about an offer sheet when a team isn't making a good offer.

It would be natural if it happened, often when there's a contract issue... you know. Naturally.

 

[CBJFitzy]

In 6 years, getting 6 mil will be peanuts and grossly underpaying him when he should be in his prime and getting paid max value.

Or he doesn't reach his potential and we are all here complaining about what an awful contract it is and how stupid the front office was for ever signing a one hit wonder to such a long contract. If it were actually guaranteed that he would only get better then this would be a much easier process. However, one need not look any further than the last CBJ contract holdout to see that things don't always work out the way you hope.

 

[Fro]

I noticed you didn't repsond either when asked with facts to support your "work ethic" and "attitude issues" character shots at Joey. If you have some, please list them and prove me wrong. You're the one with sources, not me.

as lee pointed out, they have been...you want to disregard them...

News1130 Sports ‏@News1130Sports 1h
2 locals - Ryan Johansen & Brendan Dillon to skate with the #WHLGiants till they figure out their contract problems in Columbus and Dallas.

 

[cbjgirl]

In 6 years, getting 6 mil will be peanuts and grossly underpaying him when he should be in his prime and getting paid max value.

This will be true IF Johansen is the player that he and his agent thinks he is. Or, he could go crashing into the boards heel first his first game and never play again. None of us know what will happen in the future.

Does he want tens of millions of guaranteed dollars or not?