Ryan Johansen Saga III

[Nanabijou]

I didn't expect that anything would get done until the pressure of training camp was upon us. Even with that long lull, things really took off this week. As Ron Burgundy would say, "Well, that really escalated quickly".

It is now clear that Johansen and his agent are hung up on the #1 center thing. Overhardt mentioned this pretty clearly yesterday - they subscribe to IHZ's point of view that he is the #1 C and and therefore should be paid as one. I think Joey was trying to needle Dubi playfully after he signed with that #2 C comment, but I also think it's in line with what he now believes (or at least what KO convinced him to believe). They have chosen to ignore the RFA/UFA distinction and focus on the depth chart position for whatever reason.

The Jackets are looking at the leverage they have and the comparables and are going to hold to that. I think if KO had negotiated a bit off those deals (and I believe those are actually the offers the Jackets gave), Joey could have gotten around $8 M over 2 or $35 M over 6.

I admit I was wrong early on, and mainly because I was using Bob as a comparison. I first thought it would be between $10 and $11 M over 2 years. Then, with Jarmo's comments a few weeks ago, I though between $9-10 M. As I said above, it probably could have been $8 M if done this week, but I am now pretty positive that it will be $7 M or less. Looking at all the good comparables out there, they have a good case. No matter what IHZ says, Duchene and Stepan are reasonable comparisons for the Jackets to point to.

Where do we go from here? I think we need to brace ourselves, because I actually now think the reason JD/JK went public is because the negotiations are finished in their mind. I'm not convinced that Jarmo was posturing that training camp is the line in the sand. I'm not going to be surprised that as of tonight, the 6 and 8 year contracts come off the table and that the 2 year deal of $6 M will start to get pro-rated down based on missed time.

I think Jarmo sees the young talent coming up and he's not going to paint himself into a corner by giving Joey the keys to the vault. My prediction now is that Joey will either cave and accept a 2-year less than $7 M (maybe even less than $6 M if he misses a lot of time) or he will miss the year. As Robert would say, 'book it'.

 

[PubOFH]

If he sits out the year, he stays where he is at with years in the system right? Meaning, he isnt one year closer to UFA status correct?

 

[EspenK]

I suppose I better order another pint or two at the Winchester

Have one for me while you're at it.

 

[LetsGOJackets!!]

The fact that the CBJ mgmt has been so open on these

offered terms has completely changed my mind: When they announced that they had offered 6 years 5MM+ it made me realize they have been more than fair & they are dealing with a primadonna & a rogue agent.

As fans we better be prepared to sit a good part of this season out without the 22yr old Centre, but as Jarmo said quoting Gene Hackman "That's my team" the one on the ice.


PS - the best thing that can happen for Mgmt & (the team that is signed) is that they win games out of the gate, no reason for any ambiguity

 

[blahblah]

Hockey is a business.
30g 30A @ 21 get 10.4% of the cap.

You tend to spew too much minutia in whatever point you are trying to make at the time. Tends to make it hard to follow.

I will take this single peace out.

So you mean that the 29 goals that Seguin put up was one shy of getting him to 10.4% of the cap? Was the cap at 55 mil when Taveres got his deal? These are centers, so a better comparable then a winger, such as Skinner who isn't at 10.4% of the cap either.

I'll have to go back and try and read your posts again, maybe you already covered this; but this quote alone is pretty inaccurate. Maybe you were saying at the age of 21 and not before the age of 21, who knows.

I might have to try and pull your overall list again. Some of the guys that go close that 10% number had far more consistency in their early career and probably larger overall numbers (in other words PPG players).

 

[CalBuckeyeRob]

I am not sure making these negotiations public and personal with the agent are the best tactic to maintaining the relationship or getting a deal done anytime soon. However, if the released offers are true, it tells you several important things. First, Columbus has determined that Johansen's performance is indicative of a long term impact player. Otherwise you wouldn't offer an 8 year deal at nearly $6 million per year. Most likely, if they did get a long term proposal, it was in the range of 8 years at close to $10 million per year. The bridge negotiations are the response to that proposal and a message that you are not getting $8+ million per year until you build your resume.

 

[IHeartZherdev*]

I hope Wennberg makes the team, plays great, and we sign him to a quick extension while Johansen is sitting at home. *Unless he realizes he is being a fool and signs for what he actually deserves.*

You can't extend someone while there is still three years left on their entry level deal. Guess JD was right, fans don't understand the CBA.

 

[IHeartZherdev*]

I am sure every GM/Owner in the league would love to see Overheardt CRUSHED so that players will move away from him. I think its a big reason you have not seen any offer sheets. None. Nada. They are unified against this agent and want to see him lose, and lose big. Ryan could be sitting a whole year make $0.00. Future clients may look at that and shy away from this scoundrel.

I have never liked this kids attitude or work ethic. Hopefully he grows up and sees that life is bigger than him.

He has no attitude problem or work ethic problem. He's trained his azz of this summer by all reports. There were zero reported attitude issues or work ethic issues at all last year...and if there were, why would Jarmo and JD be offering 6-8 year deals?

How you can you call yourself a "fan" of the team when promoting slander and lies about a player?

 

[Jive Pawnbroker]

I'd be a lot more concerned going into the season if it was Bob who was holding out vs. Ryan. It's entirely plausible that they could make the playoffs without Ryan, but I don't see it happening if Bob sat out the year instead.

 

[Fro]

NBC SPORTS: Jason Brough believes the Johansen camp has only two options: Don’t play, or seek out an offer sheet from a rival club.

 

[Fro]

Johansen has zero attitude issues if you ignore what happened 2 yrs ago...i keep forgetting we have to ignore any history of how he acted over a year ago...

 

[IHeartZherdev*]

Johansen has zero attitude issues if you ignore what happened 2 yrs ago...i keep forgetting we have to ignore any history of how he acted over a year ago...

I'm just waiting for ONE freakin' example besides that one.

You are saying "issues" plural as if he there has been a pattern of delinquent behavior. Hate to ruin your false narrative pal, but there isn't. If you want to make Springfield Bench-gate out to be the Black Sox scandal, that's fine.

What else you got? Surely there has to be another example since he is such a bad guy. It's pretty obviously he's learn and grown from that, hence his awesome year last season. If you want to characterize this kid as having a bad work ethic and attitude problems...list some proof. Multiple examples.

 

[Fro]

I'm just waiting for ONE freakin' example besides that one.

You are saying "issues" plural as if he there has been a pattern of delinquent behavior. Hate to ruin your false narrative pal, but there isn't. If you want to make Springfield Bench-gate out to be the Black Sox scandal, that's fine.

What else you got? Surely there has to be another example since he is such a bad guy. It's pretty obviously he's learn and grown from that, hence his awesome year last season. If you want to characterize this kid as having a bad work ethic and attitude problems...list some proof. Multiple examples.

mouthing off to Porty about a contract being a slap in the face...a good place to start...immaturity...

i'd say taking his ball and flying home is another...not staying here and being ready to go when the deal is done is another...maybe just me...you can keep defending him all you want...you are on your own island...

 

[IHeartZherdev*]

i'd say taking his ball and flying home is another...not staying here and being ready to go when the deal is done is another...maybe just me...you can keep defending him all you want...you are on your own island...

Pathetic. Can't list a single example to back up your point.

"taking his ball and flying home" is a reference to the contract dispute. You said the kid has attitude and work ethic issues, yet in his three years here, you don't have a single example to back up your point (just "THE BENCHING" OMG). Not a one from last year. The front office doesn't even think that way of the kid, or else they wouldn't have offered 6 and 8 year deals (see, that's me using an example set in reality)

 

[CentreKeeper12]

NBC SPORTS: Jason Brough believes the Johansen camp has only two options: Don’t play, or seek out an offer sheet from a rival club.

If they seek and get an offer sheet for the money he wants, those 4 picks will be hard to ignore.

 

[Jive Pawnbroker]

If I was Jarmo, I'd be working the phones right now seeing who can be added in a trade.

 

[cslebn]

i'd say taking his ball and flying home is another...not staying here and being ready to go when the deal is done is another...maybe just me...you can keep defending him all you want...you are on your own island...

I don't know if I agree with that. He was locked out. He has training facilities back north so it makes sense. Better than him working out at a 24hr fitness in Columbus in my mind.

My biggest hope is he gets hope and his dad slaps some sense into him that the dream is to play and most working shmos (like us on the forum) won't see that kind of money in our lives let alone in a 2-, 6-, or 8- year period. Regardless of injuries and etc. that kind of money sets you for life if handled correctly*

*Understandably most athletes don't.

How you can you call yourself a "fan" of the team when promoting slander and lies about a player?

I've got to be honest, out of all the things you've said this is the one that's bad. Supporting your beliefs is fine, but you're past history of outright hatred of Tyutin looks exactly like what you just said.

 

[IHeartZherdev*]

If they seek and get an offer sheet for the money he wants, those 4 picks will be hard to ignore.

If he did get an offer sheet, it would be similar to the one Ryan O'Reilly got. Not the one Shea Weber got.

As in a two-year deal, or something similar, in which the first year was $5 million and then the second year back-loaded to $6.5 million to up the qualifying offer. The price would have been a first and a third if not matched.

But again, that's me using an example set in reality...

 

[KeithBWhittington]

No rival club will tender him, not after learning the numbers. If the CBJ were a bit more entrenched against some of these teams yet, maybe, but I think it already would have happened. There is absolutely no where to go here for Overhardt and his client. They can holdout (impasse, or whatever it's technically called at this point) but it's just a matter of time before they crack. Personally, I'm not sure that JD drops those bombs yesterday if some of the players of this team hadn't expressed to management their concerns about it. It also doesn't happen unless the organization is 100 percent United. Whether it's the tail wagging the dog (Overhardt driving all of this when he should be working for the client), or its RyJo who has hijacked this, they are not going to win this.

 

[IHeartZherdev*]

I don't know if I agree with that. He was locked out. He has training facilities back north so it makes sense. Better than him working out at a 24hr fitness in Columbus in my mind.

My biggest hope is he gets hope and his dad slaps some sense into him that the dream is to play and most working shmos (like us on the forum) won't see that kind of money in our lives let alone in a 2-, 6-, or 8- year period. Regardless of injuries and etc. that kind of money sets you for life if handled correctly*

*Understandably most athletes don't.




I've got to be honest, out of all the things you've said this is the one that's bad. Supporting your beliefs is fine, but you're past history of outright hatred of Tyutin looks exactly like what you just said.

Not true. I support my disklike of Tyutin is in relation to his constant turnovers and poor defensive play. I have called him horrible at defense. I don't believe I've ever attempted to assassinate his character or call out his work ethic and attitude or his locker room presence without any proof. All my Tyutin hate is based on his on ice performance combined with his contract.

 

[Fro]

My biggest hope is he gets hope and his dad slaps some sense into him that the dream is to play and most working shmos (like us on the forum) won't see that kind of money in our lives let alone in a 2-, 6-, or 8- year period. Regardless of injuries and etc. that kind of money sets you for life if handled correctly*

*Understandably most athletes don't.

problem with that, is his dad is RT'ing ppl that are siding with Overhardt camp...so I wouldn't exactly be hoping for this to play out...

 

[KeithBWhittington]

If I was Jarmo, I'd be working the phones right now seeing who can be added in a trade.

That would require a massive undertaking at this point. Overhardt would need to be involved heavily to make sure wherever RyJo is traded to he would sign. For what happened yesterday, I think there will be a "cooling off" period between the sides. Eventually they will have to talk again, but right now, JD, Jarmo and Company should be completely focused on who's here and the season.

 

[IHeartZherdev*]

No rival club will tender him, not after learning the numbers. If the CBJ were a bit more entrenched against some of these teams yet, maybe, but I think it already would have happened. There is absolutely no where to go here for Overhardt and his client. They can holdout (impasse, or whatever it's technically called at this point) but it's just a matter of time before they crack. Personally, I'm not sure that JD drops those bombs yesterday if some of the players of this team hadn't expressed to management their concerns about it. It also doesn't happen unless the organization is 100 percent United. Whether it's the tail wagging the dog (Overhardt driving all of this when he should be working for the client), or its RyJo who has hijacked this, they are not going to win this.

This is the problem. It's shouldn't be two separate sides with each trying to win. It should be two sides working together to come to a solution. But the problem is we have a an egomaniac running our front office, who is more interested in being the face of the franchise himself than having an actual franchise player. Who is now throwing public hissy fits when he doesn't get his way. That is what spoiled, entitled, diva behavior looks like.

Doug Armstrong had a tough negotiation with Vlad Sobotka, in which he felt the player and agent were asking for too much and being unreasonable. He never said anything nasty, he just let the kid take his leverage back to the KHL. Didn't burn any bridges or make a public spectacle, or call attention to himself. Classy, even in a messy and bad contractual situation. Held his ground and didn't give in and that was that. All public statements were classy and not personal. That is how you do business. Our front office is an embarrassment.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

This is the problem. It's shouldn't be two separate sides with each trying to win. It should be two sides working together to come to a solution.

This is totally right.

But the problem is we have a an egomaniac running our front office, who is more interested in being the face of the franchise himself than having an actual franchise player. Who is now throwing public hissy fits when he doesn't get his way. That is what spoiled, entitled, diva behavior looks like.

And wrong.

 

[pete goegan]

...How you can you call yourself a "fan" of the team when promoting slander and lies about a player?

...But the problem is we have a an egomaniac running our front office, who is more interested in being the face of the franchise himself than having an actual franchise player. Who is now throwing public hissy fits when he doesn't get his way. That is what spoiled, entitled, diva behavior looks like...

Yep, that's our IHZ!