Ryan Johansen Saga III

[Wendy Clear]

This is getting crazy. There are simply tons of comparables, all of which support a bridge or long-term contract. Let's see, this won't take me a minute...

Jeff Skinner: 6 years, $5.75m/year - TWO really strong seasons including a 31g/32a season almost exactly like RyJo's 33/30

Tyler Seguin: 6 years, $5.75m/year - TWO really strong seasons including a 29/38

Gabriel Landeskog: 7 years, $5.5m/year - TWO really strong seasons

Actually, you know what, this is taking too long, and it's just so stupidly obvious. Anyone who thinks RyJo is being "insulted" needs a good slap in the face.

Just a couple bridge deals to prove the point:

Logan Couture: 2 years, $2.8m/year - TWO really strong seasons, BACK-TO-BACK 30-goal years!

Matt Duchene: 2 years, $3.5m/year - TWO really strong seasons yet again


That's it, can't be bothered to go on. It's so obvious and so blindingly in-your-face if you just look at the other guys who've been in RyJo's shoes. And the real funny thing is, you know what, almost all of these players had a much stronger leg to stand on because they weren't so busy pissing down it in their first two years like RyJo was. His position in this standoff wouldn't be so ridiculous if he'd had a first or second year like almost every guy above.

 

[WannabeFinn]

I suppose I better order another pint or two at the Winchester

 

[oilerbear]

Remember: this is the same guy that used the phrase "more better" earlier in this discussion...



Sorry, but you're wrong on most of these "pairings"

Signed - the guy who has actually watched the games. And you can't tell me that Olli Jokinin, Josef Stumpel, and Stephen Weiss made Nathan Horton a physical, banging RW ... or that that has any comparison to the situation that Ryan Johansen is in. None of those players are any better than Foligno or Umberger. Jokinen had a couple of decent years surrounded by a career of underachieving - if anything, he was detrimental to Horton's development.

What a ridiculously one-sided attempt at proving your point. Just because guys played on the same team doesn't mean they spent the entire year together.

Actually on the topic, I'm of the belief that JD and JK making their offers public was the right move. Immediately upon doing so, they silenced most of their critics - people who assumed Johansen wasn't being negotiated with, was being held hostage, or being low-balled. That 8 year offer is a damn fine offer, and would make Ryan Johansen higher paid than John Tavares, over a longer term. That alone makes it a contract worth signing, unless your name is Toews, Kane, Ovechkin, Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, or equivalent. To turn your nose on that offer after averaging just above 0.5 points per game in your first three years in the league is insulting. JD is right, and this is why they had to make their situation publicly known.

You can't have the fans in Columbus turning on you for not signing a kid. It's one thing if they were allowing him to walk without giving it a shot - it's another thing that they are standing up for what they believe is right (and in my opinion, rightfully so). I'm a big Ryan Johansen fan, really think he has the potential to land somewhere between Jason Spezza and Ryan Getzlaf in his prime. But this situation has been blown entirely off course by either him and his agent, and it will be difficult to look past that from this point forward in his career. Which, by the way, is what is being hurt the most.

Would you rather be guaranteed $46 million dollars over the next eight years of your life, or would you rather go home and sit for two months (making nothing) while the team refuses to talk to your agent because he's alienated himself from them?

Let's say he wants $7 million per year for those eight years. That means this whole situation is being ballooned over $10 million dollars ... which would stand to be about twice as much money as he will miss by missing this season, which has to be taken in as a possibility. Take it from a guy who works damn hard for what money I do earn - there are worse things than $46 million dollar guaranteed contracts.

Jokinen
05-06 82gm 38G 51A 89P Hortons 2nd best career year goals 28G
06-07 82 gm 39G 52 A 91P Hortons best years for goals 31G
07-08 82gm 34G 37A 71P Hortons 3rd best year for goals 27G

old man Jokinen would have been the 3rd best scorer on your team last year.


The best top 30 fwd - top 90 fwd - top 180 fwd depth in the league right now is
SJS 3 - 5 - 7
EDM 2 - 5 - 8 MacT changed over 17 roster spots in 13 months adding 2 top 90 and 2 top 180
CHI 2- 5 - 7
COL 1 -5 -7

CBJ 0 - 1 - 7 zero top 30 - one top 90 - 7 top 180
Johansen 75 pt #86
Dubinsky 70 pt #101
Hartnell 63 pt #125
Letestu 61 pt #135
Atkinson 58 pt # 144
Foligno 58 pt #144
Anisimov 57 pt #148

Johansen continues to perform at this rate he is a top 30 player.
He was a top 90 player the last 2 years.
to win you need top 30 and top 90 depth.
the kid generated that offence with
Umberger #173
Foligno #144
Jenner #200

top 30 pace with tea mates averaging #173

Hockey is a business.
30g 30A @ 21 get 10.4% of the cap.

The kid showed to be a top 30 performer with border line 2nd/ 3rd line production forwards.

he is a top 90 forward the last 2 years. his numbers are right there with
J. Staal, E. Kane, J. spezza, Camallerri, Skinner, Ryan, RNH.

Only one of them a 30G 30 A @ 21 player. the worst contract he should take is 6M @ 5yr.
buying zero UFA years.

Pulling out the trite, I work hard for my money.

I suffer with my wage in southern alberta. when i could make 245,000 in Fort Mac.
but I am home to my 3 kids every night.

 

[Wendy Clear]

Do the videos on the Jackets' website actually work for anyone?

 

[Cyclones Rock]

The Jackets management team has been completely outclassed by Johansen's agent in this negotiation.

All we heard was: "He has to EARN it". "He has to PROVE himself".

Well after bleating this nonsense for 3 months, they completely caved on that position by offering an EIGHT YEAR deal. Now, that 8 year deal isn't near what it would need to be for Johansen to sign it, but that the organization was willing to go MAXIMUM TERM after holding steadfast in the "earn it" camp makes them look ridiculous. Which they are.

KO has won this negotiation. The Jackets will up their 6 year offer and it'll get done by the season's beginning, I would think. That it took them so long to start being reasonable is unfathomable. The dramatic flip flop on the term of the deal-from minimum bridge to maximum term-clearly suggests that the front office is operating without a coherent philosophy on contract negotiations for younger players.

It'll take another $500,000-$750,000 per year over the 6 year deal to get it done-no way does KO accept Skinner money after completely dismantling team Bozo (Zito, JK and JD). He's got all the leverage and now he's just going to jam it down their throats.

As he should.

 

[EDM]

As RyJo sits at home, I wonder how he likes "winning".

 

[EDM]

Robert, you actually think that after making those statements publicly calling RyJo's demands "extortion", JD is going to turn around and back down and give in? If you do, you have no idea what you are talking about. JD is not going to eat his words and lose his credibility around the league. JD's press conference and the subsequent refusal to even meet again with KO is a declaration that the Jackets are done.

Unless RyJo crumbles, he will not be in the Jackets starting lineup.

You say "book it". I will. I will place my wager that RyJo is not the opening nite lineup unless he folds.

 

[EDM]

And CR, you too are way off. When Jd takes to a public podium and declares that he has been subjected to extortion, and then the Jackets refuse to talk further, it means they are done talking. JD is not going to publicly give in to "extortion" by offering another $750,000 per year. If you think it is a victory for RyJo to sit out the year, then pop the cork on your bubbly. Because sitting on his arse is what Joey is going to do unless he comes back contrite and agrees to a lower offer.

Did David Koresh declare victory before burning down his commune? Do you think Koresh won?

 

[EDM]

In addition, by carefully laying out for all the other GM's around the league the specifics of what the Jackets offered and what Joey demanded (Stamkos money), JD pretty much assured there would be no offer sheets forthcoming to Joey. I doubt any competent GM will want to fork over 4 picks including two number one's for the opportunity to pay Joey Stamkos money. Joey is gonna sit. Period. Amazing, CR, you think that is a victory.

This was well played by JD and it assures Joey has no room to wiggle. Either Joey folds or he does not play.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

And CR, you too are way off. When Jd takes to a public podium and declares that he has been subjected to extortion, and then the Jackets refuse to talk further, it means they are done talking. JD is not going to publicly give in to "extortion" by offering another $750,000 per year. If you think it is a victory for RyJo to sit out the year, then pop the cork on your bubbly. Because sitting on his arse is what Joey is going to do unless he comes back contrite and agrees to a lower offer.

Did David Koresh declare victory before burning down his commune? Do you think Koresh won?

How in the world can you take anything JD says seriously regarding these negotiations?

The incoherent strategy has resulted in 6 year and an 8 year max term offer being currently on the table. These offers coming from team "earn it, show me, prove it" which was offering a minimal 2 year bridge deal.

JD saying "this is my final offer" carries about as much weight as a teen age daughter telling her father that she "hates him" when he takes away her cell phone as punishment.

JD and Jarmo got their jocks handed to them in this negotiation. They will give in further. Any management team which plays the PR "earn it, you've only had one good season" card and then offers a maximum term deal doesn't have a well grounded philosophy. JMac is probably questioning his Davidson hiring. I know I would if I were in his shoes.

 

[Wendy Clear]

KO has won this negotiation.

He's got all the leverage

He has absolutely none. Nada. Zilch. The Jackets will still exist without RJ. They'll still play games. RJ is the only guy in this equation who stands to lose everything. Even his moron agent will get paid, while RJ sits at home twiddling his thumbs.

 

[EDM]

Will all due regard, I completely disagree. Once they went public, that was the end of the line. You are right, they would be humiliated if they gave in further. Thus, they will not. And why should they? They have assured that Joey has no place to go. The Jackets will play this year. Joey will not. And if the Jackets have problems, they have shown the fans how far they were willing to go. Joey will be perceived as the greedy spoiled brat who ruined the season. And that perception will be accurate.

Frankly, I think the Jackets will be a competitive team without Joey. They will give the fans a great season with their blue collar team oriented game. With Joey they could have been dominant. So we will have to settle for competitive rather than dominant. And I bet we see an obsessed Dubie who is bent on showing that he too is a Number One center. And RyJo will still have Center Ice. I can live with this result and be quite happy.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

He has absolutely none. Nada. Zilch. The Jackets will still exist without RJ. They'll still play games. RJ is the only guy in this equation who stands to lose everything. Even his moron agent will get paid, while RJ sits at home twiddling his thumbs.

Really? In a very limited CBA context he doesn't.

However, if one looks beyond the constraints of RFA status regarding this negotiation then one can see quite a few areas where Johansen has huge leverage. A few are:

1) The Jackets are coming off their best on ice season ever. Interest in the team is coming back as evidenced by season ticket sales reaching 2009 levels. Johansen was a huge part of last season. Not having him in the line up puts the Jackets on ice performance, and hence, renewed box office interest at severe risk.

2) The All Star Game. The opportunity for the Jackets to showcase themselves to the hockey world will be severely diminished if they aren't performing well on the ice. The team, instead of being seen as an up and coming franchise, will be seen as returning to its bumbling norm and last season viewed as an aberration unlikely to be repeated.

While there's no guarantee that the Jackets will be a good team even with Johansen in the line up, there's a ton of risk that they won't be without him on the roster.

If you can't see these points as real leverage, then so be it. Play the "he can't play anywhere else" game to your heart's content.

The iron is hot for the Jackets current revitalization to permanently change the course of this franchise. Instead of striking that iron, Jarmo and JD are putting the future of the entire franchise at high risk with their stumbling, amateurish negotiating strategy and their petulant, public poutings.

 

[Wendy Clear]

Those are just reasons why it'd be nice for him to get signed before game 1. But nice isn't often part of business. The Jackets aren't gonna cave on their appropriate offers because the All-Star game is being in held in town. Come on, man.

 

[MightySelanne8]

Hopefully RyJo sits out a year, what a spoiled, delusional kid. Good luck for Columbus for the upcoming season, really like your team (even without RyJo).

ps. well played CBJ management

 

[Ryan52]

Those are just reasons why it'd be nice for him to get signed before game 1. But nice isn't often part of business. The Jackets aren't gonna cave on their appropriate offers because the All-Star game is being in held in town. Come on, man.

it becomes part of business when the box office takes a hit

 

[Wendy Clear]

it becomes part of business when the box office takes a hit

And by all means you let me know when that happens. Just remember it's Ryan Johansen we're talking about, not Sidney Crosby.

 

[Xoggz22]

Boy this thread is an interesting read...

I'm all in with JD and JK on this one. Overhardt seems to be looking to set new boundaries with a client that has a resume of one good year. Seems like the comps JD and JK are using are very fair. I also believe that the CBJ offer is low and they will come up some, not much, on their offer. What was offered gave Johansen's camp the ability to counter at a more reasonable offer which, to this point, they have not. They simply have held their ground that Johansen is unique.

Take in the salary cap increase from the time of Duchene's bridge and something in the neighborhood of 7.75M over two years seems logical. Those that want to discount the CBA and compare Johansen's coming contract to the play of Foligno or Anisimov aren't comparing apples to apples. This contract has very little to do with comparing existing players beyond their ELC and a player coming off his ELC. It's the way the CBA is written and it's the only time the team has leverage.

2 years, $7.75M bridge. 1st year $3.5M, 2nd year $4.25M

 

[Jackets16]

I hope Wennberg makes the team, plays great, and we sign him to a quick extension while Johansen is sitting at home. *Unless he realizes he is being a fool and signs for what he actually deserves.*

 

[juno89]

This is just really sad. There is no way in a month or six months or two years that Ryan will be able to look back and say that his decision to trust his agent was a good idea here.

How much longer after Ryan gets home do we start to hear clips and interviews from him, nothing breaks a guy down more then the home crowd. How much longer until we start hearing it's not about the money.

Having been a 21 year old kid, is there any realistic was for his feelings/ego/pride to not be damaged by this, after all we are already hearing that CBJ management is taking this personnel. I am beginning to think we may have to trade him. Someone talk me down.

 

[candyman82]

I hope Wennberg makes the team, plays great, and we sign him to a quick extension while Johansen is sitting at home. *Unless he realizes he is being a fool and signs for what he actually deserves.*

I don't believe Wennberg is eligible to be extended yet

 

[Fro]

I hope Wennberg makes the team, plays great, and we sign him to a quick extension while Johansen is sitting at home. *Unless he realizes he is being a fool and signs for what he actually deserves.*

i wouldn't say its what he deserves...but i side with the rest of the post...if AW can come in and play with men this weekend then i'm all for it...i can't wait for this weekend now...

 

[Jackets16]

I don't believe Wennberg is eligible to be extended yet

He probably isn't, but that wasn't really the point to my post. I just want him to come in and play great and be a TEAM PLAYER, so we can all move on from Johansen.

 

[PubOFH]

I am sure every GM/Owner in the league would love to see Overheardt CRUSHED so that players will move away from him. I think its a big reason you have not seen any offer sheets. None. Nada. They are unified against this agent and want to see him lose, and lose big. Ryan could be sitting a whole year make $0.00. Future clients may look at that and shy away from this scoundrel.

I have never liked this kids attitude or work ethic. Hopefully he grows up and sees that life is bigger than him.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

How in the world can you take anything JD says seriously regarding these negotiations?

The incoherent strategy has resulted in 6 year and an 8 year max term offer being currently on the table. These offers coming from team "earn it, show me, prove it" which was offering a minimal 2 year bridge deal.

JD saying "this is my final offer" carries about as much weight as a teen age daughter telling her father that she "hates him" when he takes away her cell phone as punishment.

JD and Jarmo got their jocks handed to them in this negotiation. They will give in further. Any management team which plays the PR "earn it, you've only had one good season" card and then offers a maximum term deal doesn't have a well grounded philosophy. JMac is probably questioning his Davidson hiring. I know I would if I were in his shoes.

I don't believe it's evident that these long-term options are recent. In fact, I believe that they were presented now to show that "this is how it has gone throughout."

You can still question the consistency of the message, but I don't think going public with long-term offers is necessarily "caving" as you're attempting to position it.