RW Rocco Grimaldi (2011, 33rd overall, Florida)

[Lundell4Prez]

no offense - but this is one of the dumbest things i've ever heard.

just because he can't mature physically doesn't mean he can't mature as a player. players take time to adapt to different facets of the game. with time, as rocco becomes accustomed to the speed of the game in NCAA, i'm assuming his play will improve as well.

as with most, if not all, offensive stars, there's a "hockey sense" factor that can't be attributed to physical gifts. martin st.louis is a perfect example, and while i understand he's defintely the exception and not the norm of guys this size, from what i've been hearing, grimaldi has been pretty impressive in just a handful of games and has tons and tons of time in his collegiate career to improve himself as a player. to say he's "peaked" at 19 and this grimaldi after a handful of games of NCAA play is what he will be as a potential NHLer is one of the most asinine things i've ever read.


that being said, i appreciate all the input. hope to see rocco play myself soon

I agree.. Sounds like a jealous Minnesota fan

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

How many Nate Gerbe's are in the NHL? Figure it out.

Where will you be when Grimaldi is a regular with the Panthers.........

 

[Howboutthempanthers]

 

[UvBnDatsyuked]

The NHL is a lofty goal for anyone.

Problem with guys like Grimaldi, smaller guys. The mind is willing but the body can only take so much.

A guy like Cal Clutterbuck. Not small either. To play his way, hitting everything. I see a short career. Its hard to keep up thatl evel of play when you hit people bigger than you.

Gerbe another example. Great in spurts but i do not see him playing a full NHL year or staying very long. Simular size and numbers.

Peter Sejna, Ryan Duncan, Jeff Taffe, Garret Roe, Marty Sertich, Brett Sterling, Ryan Potulny, Ryan Lasch, Jack Connolly, Brady Murray, Junior Lessard, Brandon Bochenski, Chad Rau, Jay Barriball etc... all recents from the WCHA. All had one aspect that was amazing. All fringe NHLers if they ever even made it. Speedsters, wicked wristers, rocket one timers, things you cannot teach.

Nodak does not have an easy game for some time. The next 10 games will tell alot. Playing BU, NotreDame, CC, DU, SCSU and UMD. Before this they played both Alaskas', two very weak teams.

I'll give you that elite speed you cannot teach but seriously top notch elite wrist shot and one time slap shots are not teachable? If you think you plop out of your mom with those skills then not sure what to say. There is a reason why Semin, Kovalchuk, Malkin and a host of other Russians have deadly wrist shots. Russian development is all about meticulous dedication to perfect technique and on top of that, a lot of coaches have no clue what is perfect technique nor do they drive it to perfection. It is not genetics unless you are referring to the genetics of having the desire to practice daily.

 

[MN_Gopher]

I'll give you that elite speed you cannot teach but seriously top notch elite wrist shot and one time slap shots are not teachable? If you think you plop out of your mom with those skills then not sure what to say. There is a reason why Semin, Kovalchuk, Malkin and a host of other Russians have deadly wrist shots. Russian development is all about meticulous dedication to perfect technique and on top of that, a lot of coaches have no clue what is perfect technique nor do they drive it to perfection. It is not genetics unless you are referring to the genetics of having the desire to practice daily.

Then how come only a select few have them? Everyone can shoot like Stamkos and wind it up like Chara? You teach a wrist shot and improve on it, but you can not teach world class anything.

 

[MN_Gopher]

no offense - but this is one of the dumbest things i've ever heard.

Ryan Duncan 5'7 170 best year in the WCHA at 21. Outscored Oshie and Toews. Never got better, not even in AHL.

David Spehar 5'8 170. Best year at 18. Outscored Erik Rasmussen and Wyat Smith. Spehar never played past college.

Anthony Maiani 5'7, Best year at 19. Led team in socing. Next year a year older, 4th on team, past by teamates.

Garret Roe 5'9 180. Started at 19 Point totals 45, 48, 49, 36. Never got any better after freshman year.

Ryan Lasch 5'9 175. Best year at 20, tailed off after that.

Many more.

 

[UvBnDatsyuked]

Then how come only a select few have them? Everyone can shoot like Stamkos and wind it up like Chara? You teach a wrist shot and improve on it, but you can not teach world class anything.

You could say that about any physical skill in any sport. You seriously put very little emphasis on hard work, coaching the proper technique, a player willing to perfect that technique for countless hours, etc.

Look up articles ranging from Dan Coyle's "How to Grow a Super Athlete" "Inside Barcelona" Sports Illustrated online

So easy for people to live their lives thinking that person X is better because of person X's parents. It is a slap in the face to players who wake up and work their game and think their game until they go to sleep.

And since you know so much about Stamkos and what it took to get him to his level
Stamkos told NHL.com that he started practicing his shot when he was 9 or 10 years old.

"I could skate with the best of them, but I couldn't shoot,"
The rest of the article is here. Look at the title of the article
http://lamplighterhockey.com/index.php?page=camp

 

[Lundell4Prez]

Ryan Duncan 5'7 170 best year in the WCHA at 21. Outscored Oshie and Toews. Never got better, not even in AHL. UNDRAFTED

David Spehar 5'8 170. Best year at 18. Outscored Erik Rasmussen and Wyat Smith. Spehar never played past college. UNDRAFTED

Anthony Maiani 5'7, Best year at 19. Led team in socing. Next year a year older, 4th on team, past by teamates. UNDRAFTED

Garret Roe 5'9 180. Started at 19 Point totals 45, 48, 49, 36. Never got any better after freshman year. 7TH ROUND PICK

Ryan Lasch 5'9 175. Best year at 20, tailed off after that. UNDRAFTED

Many more.

Added a few notes to your players mentioned.. I play with a 5'6 winger on my mens league team, maybe we should add him to the list of small people you mention. Obviously no Gerbe, St. Louis, etc...

 

[McMatthews]

I really don't like Grimaldi but he's closer to Ennis and Gerbe than Duncan and Lasch.

 

[Circulartheory]

Ryan Duncan 5'7 170 best year in the WCHA at 21. Outscored Oshie and Toews. Never got better, not even in AHL.

David Spehar 5'8 170. Best year at 18. Outscored Erik Rasmussen and Wyat Smith. Spehar never played past college.

Anthony Maiani 5'7, Best year at 19. Led team in socing. Next year a year older, 4th on team, past by teamates.

Garret Roe 5'9 180. Started at 19 Point totals 45, 48, 49, 36. Never got any better after freshman year.

Ryan Lasch 5'9 175. Best year at 20, tailed off after that.

Many more.

With these four names, can you please describe their skating ability? Could you also give us a scouting report on their hockey sense and other factors?

Numbers are nice but it doesn't say much.

Please, to strengthen your argument, please give us a scouting report on each of these players so we can compare to Grimaldi. You could very well be right, so help yourself by proving it.

EDIT: A follow-up. You know why I am asking for reports? Because, again, its more than just size and offensive skill. There are so many other factors you have to balance out, like speed, elusiveness, hockey sense, ability to find the open areas etc.

Then once you have all the information, you have the ability to balance it. So if Grimaldi is small, is he a better skater than most players to compensate? If he is weak, does have the elusiveness to dodge hits? If he can't power his way to net, can he create plays from the perimeter?

It isn't as simple as size + offense = NHLer.

 

[UvBnDatsyuked]

Added a few notes to your players mentioned.. I play with a 5'6 winger on my mens league team, maybe we should add him to the list of small people you mention. Obviously no Gerbe, St. Louis, etc...

Don't let facts get in the way. Let him compare a first rounder with everyone short in the universe

 

[MN_Gopher]

You could say that about any physical skill in any sport. You seriously put very little emphasis on hard work, coaching the proper technique, a player willing to perfect that technique for countless hours, etc.

Look up articles ranging from Dan Coyle's "How to Grow a Super Athlete" "Inside Barcelona" Sports Illustrated online

So easy for people to live their lives thinking that person X is better because of person X's parents. It is a slap in the face to players who wake up and work their game and think their game until they go to sleep.

And since you know so much about Stamkos and what it took to get him to his level
Stamkos told NHL.com that he started practicing his shot when he was 9 or 10 years old.

"I could skate with the best of them, but I couldn't shoot,"
The rest of the article is here. Look at the title of the article
http://lamplighterhockey.com/index.php?page=camp

So you think anyone can be world class? All you need to do is practice a little harder? Genetics plays a big part. You cannot change type I or IIa and IIb muscles through training. You can work the existing ones and make them stronger. Its why a sprinter is out of breathe after 100m and a marathon runner can talk fine after a race. Either you have the right combo of fibers or you do not. Heart size, lung capacity, spatial reasoning, anerobic threshold( how hard you can workout before you throw up), all genticaly influenced. Thats what makes anyone plaing at that high level, NFL, NHL, NBA, EFL, La Liga, MLB, PGA, Serie A, ... that special. Not everyone can do it, no matter how hard you work.

Rocco is a forward. He is not going to be a 3rd line guy or a 4th line grinder. Not a center. 4 spots on any team. He has to be one of the best 120 forwards in the world, roughly. Thats a lofty goal. For anyone.

Without going through the entire list. Of the top 50 I think only St. Louis is listed under 5'9. Some of those maybe sneaking in an inch. But Rocco is not 5'9 or close.

Can he do it. Yes, what odds would i place on him, not great.

 

[Circulartheory]

So you think anyone can be world class? All you need to do is practice a little harder? Genetics plays a big part. You cannot change type I or IIa and IIb muscles through training. You can work the existing ones and make them stronger. Its why a sprinter is out of breathe after 100m and a marathon runner can talk fine after a race. Either you have the right combo of fibers or you do not. Heart size, lung capacity, spatial reasoning, anerobic threshold( how hard you can workout before you throw up), all genticaly influenced. Thats what makes anyone plaing at that high level, NFL, NHL, NBA, EFL, La Liga, MLB, PGA, Serie A, ... that special. Not everyone can do it, no matter how hard you work.

Rocco is a forward. He is not going to be a 3rd line guy or a 4th line grinder. Not a center. 4 spots on any team. He has to be one of the best 120 forwards in the world, roughly. Thats a lofty goal. For anyone.

Without going through the entire list. Of the top 50 I think only St. Louis is listed under 5'9. Some of those maybe sneaking in an inch. But Rocco is not 5'9 or close.

Can he do it. Yes, what odds would i place on him, not great.

I like Brad Marchand.

 

[Circulartheory]

So you think anyone can be world class? All you need to do is practice a little harder? Genetics plays a big part. You cannot change type I or IIa and IIb muscles through training. You can work the existing ones and make them stronger. Its why a sprinter is out of breathe after 100m and a marathon runner can talk fine after a race. Either you have the right combo of fibers or you do not. Heart size, lung capacity, spatial reasoning, anerobic threshold( how hard you can workout before you throw up), all genticaly influenced. Thats what makes anyone plaing at that high level, NFL, NHL, NBA, EFL, La Liga, MLB, PGA, Serie A, ... that special. Not everyone can do it, no matter how hard you work.

Rocco is a forward. He is not going to be a 3rd line guy or a 4th line grinder. Not a center. 4 spots on any team. He has to be one of the best 120 forwards in the world, roughly. Thats a lofty goal. For anyone.

Without going through the entire list. Of the top 50 I think only St. Louis is listed under 5'9. Some of those maybe sneaking in an inch. But Rocco is not 5'9 or close.

Can he do it. Yes, what odds would i place on him, not great.

...and thats the whole point. Grimaldi was drafted because he has those offensive skills.

The entire argument, you have not given your own clear analysis on his offensive skills and hockey sense which is why all of us are arguing with you. Please, give us a scouting report on him from your eyes, then your opinion will hold greater weight in this debate.

If he was small like he is, but only average talent, then all of us would be agreeing with you. But he has talent, high end talent.

Which is why I keep repeating, this is a balancing game. If your small, you better be more skilled then everyone else. You should also be strong or elusive or speedy, it helps.

 

[Circulartheory]

I also like Michael Cammalleri.

 

[MN_Gopher]

Added a few notes to your players mentioned.. I play with a 5'6 winger on my mens league team, maybe we should add him to the list of small people you mention. Obviously no Gerbe, St. Louis, etc...

Ok.

A lot of little guys do not get drafted. So what are try to show by draft position?

Theoren Fleury, 8th round. 5'6

Martin St Louis UNDRAFED. 5'8

Steve Sullivan 9th round 5'9

Nathan Gerbe 5th Round 5'5

You showed me. Draft position shows a lot.

 

[Circulartheory]

Ok.

A lot of little guys do not get drafted. So what are try to show by draft position?

Theoren Fleury, 8th round. 5'6

Martin St Louis UNDRAFED. 5'8

Steve Sullivan 9th round 5'9

Nathan Gerbe 5th Round 5'5

You showed me. Draft position shows a lot.

Why do we care about draft position? Its been a year and a half since Grimaldi's been drafted

...you do know he isn't a 2013 prospect right?

 

[Circulartheory]

I like Derek Roy too.

 

[Circulartheory]

So 5-9 or shorter players that aren't St.Louis star status

Brad Marchand
Tyler Ennis
Mike Cammalleri
Derek Roy
Jordin Tootoo
David Desharnais
Brian Gionta
Steve Sullivan
Scott Nichol
maybe Nathan Gerbe...

They aren't all offensive forwards. You got your offensive forwards (Ennis, Roy, Cammalleri, Desharnais, Gionta, Sullivan) and your bottom six agitators (Tootoo, Marchand, Nichol). I think Gerbe fits under agitator...

Guys like Tootoo and Nichol? They aren't offensively skilled and they aren't big. So how do they balance their game out? They put on some strength to compensate and play a very physical game. And Grimaldi (based on scout reports by Kirk Luedeke), he plays that physical game.

If he doesn't, let me know. I haven't seen him play, and based from your firm stance, you must have seen him many times play. So can you give us your own scouting report?

 

[Pyrophorus]

I was hoping would take with one of their 2nd rounders.

What is Andy Miele's upside, or Spencer Abbott?

 

[Circulartheory]

Oh, to follow up on my last post. No one EXPECTS Grimaldi to be the next St.Louis, but if he can develop into any one of those guys I wrote, like a Marchand, Panthers fans would be ecstatic.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

So 5-9 or shorter players that aren't St.Louis star status

Brad Marchand
Tyler Ennis
Mike Cammalleri
Derek Roy
Jordin Tootoo
David Desharnais
Brian Gionta
Steve Sullivan
Scott Nichol
maybe Nathan Gerbe...

They aren't all offensive forwards. You got your offensive forwards (Ennis, Roy, Cammalleri, Desharnais, Gionta, Sullivan) and your bottom six agitators (Tootoo, Marchand, Nichol). I think Gerbe fits under agitator...

Guys like Tootoo and Nichol? They aren't offensively skilled and they aren't big. So how do they balance their game out? They put on some strength to compensate and play a very physical game. And Grimaldi (based on scout reports by Kirk Luedeke), he plays that physical game.

If he doesn't, let me know. I haven't seen him play, and based from your firm stance, you must have seen him many times play. So can you give us your own scouting report?

Briere is "listed" at 5'10" but is probably 5'8". There is no way in hell that he is 5'10". Saku Koivu is another who is listed falsely as being 5'10".

 

[Circulartheory]

Briere is "listed" at 5'10" but is probably 5'8". There is no way in hell that he is 5'10". Saku Koivu is another who is listed falsely as being 5'10".

We have to play by the rules if you want to win an argument

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

We have to play by the rules if you want to win an argument

I hear you but the only reason that they were able to get away with this is they came up in a time when combine results weren't public knowledge. Briere is absolutely tiny, it is plain as day that he is under 5'10"........


P.S. the arguement is already won.......he just doesn't know it yet. To call Grimaldi a longshot is nothing short of asinine. If he said that Grimaldi isn't a sure bet I could accept that but a longshot???

 

[UvBnDatsyuked]

So you think anyone can be world class? All you need to do is practice a little harder? Genetics plays a big part. You cannot change type I or IIa and IIb muscles through training. You can work the existing ones and make them stronger. Its why a sprinter is out of breathe after 100m and a marathon runner can talk fine after a race. Either you have the right combo of fibers or you do not. Heart size, lung capacity, spatial reasoning, anerobic threshold( how hard you can workout before you throw up), all genticaly influenced. Thats what makes anyone plaing at that high level, NFL, NHL, NBA, EFL, La Liga, MLB, PGA, Serie A, ... that special. Not everyone can do it, no matter how hard you work.

Rocco is a forward. He is not going to be a 3rd line guy or a 4th line grinder. Not a center. 4 spots on any team. He has to be one of the best 120 forwards in the world, roughly. Thats a lofty goal. For anyone.

Without going through the entire list. Of the top 50 I think only St. Louis is listed under 5'9. Some of those maybe sneaking in an inch. But Rocco is not 5'9 or close.

Can he do it. Yes, what odds would i place on him, not great.

Not really sure where you are coming from now. Didn't say anything about Rocco or size or said that you could teach some tub of goo who can barely walk and chew gum at the same time to become elite. You said that one time slap shot and world class wrister was not teachable as if Stamkos didn't work his arse off to get where he is today.

Go to a stick and puck session in Toronto, Minnesota, Detroit, etc and watch what the kids are doing. You might notice what I notice every single time. The kids who spend the most time shooting are almost always the best shooters. The kids who spend their time in the neutral zone working on puckhandling are almost always the best puckhandlers. And another shocking revelation, the one's you see almost every time you are at the rink, are usually the best at it.