RW Rocco Grimaldi (2011, 33rd overall, Florida)

[couture23]

We are comparing Grimaldi to Gerbe at their same point in development which would be in the NCAA.

Right, sorry. I'm a big fan of both - I was ecstatic when Florida drafted him because most people wouldn't have given him a chance. It's just hard to predict success for someone at that size, luckily Gerbe has had some of that.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

There are reasons he might not translate well to the NHL, but the size of his opponents isn't one of them. If you're 5'6", what do you care if your opponent is an inch taller and 13 lbs heavier on average? They are still a lot bigger than you either way. There is less clutching and grabbing in the NHL, and I can't prove it, but I'd be willing to bet there is less hitting as well.

There is alot more hitting in the NHL than there is in the NCAA...........end of discussion. The CHL is a much closer comparison to the NHL in terms of physical play and intimidation.

 

[LouJersey]

Gerbe being sold "short" here with his skill level IMO... Was an elite college scorer which hasn't translated over to the NHL yet...but he was saddled with Gaustad as his center for most of his career no? Not going to mix up Gaustad and Adam Oates any time soon..

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Right, sorry. I'm a big fan of both - I was ecstatic when Florida drafted him because most people wouldn't have given him a chance. It's just hard to predict success for someone at that size, luckily Gerbe has had some of that.

I am a big fan of Gerbe and wanted the Habs to select Grimaldi. I love players who combine skill and fearlessness.

 

[couture23]

I am a big fan of Gerbe and wanted the Habs to select Grimaldi. I love players who combine skill and fearlessness.

Players like that have to work even harder because of their size. In the end, I feel like they come out as being a grittier player than players 6 feet and up.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Gerbe being sold "short" here with his skill level IMO... Was an elite college scorer which hasn't translated over to the NHL yet...but he was saddled with Gaustad as his center for most of his career no? Not going to mix up Gaustad and Adam Oates any time soon..

Gerbe and Grimaldi are very similar but the real separating factor between the two is Grimaldi's vision and playmaking abilities. Both players go to the net fearlessly and can snipe with the best of them. Gerbe is in more of a Brian Gionta mold whereas Grimaldi has Martin St.Louis upside.

 

[Xokkeu]

Gerbe being sold "short" here with his skill level IMO... Was an elite college scorer which hasn't translated over to the NHL yet...but he was saddled with Gaustad as his center for most of his career no? Not going to mix up Gaustad and Adam Oates any time soon..

Grimaldi has like six games to his credit in the NCAA so the only comparable is their last year at the NDTP.

Grimaldi 25 in 23
Gerbe 47 in 50



Gerbe showed consistent development in the NCAA. Grimaldi will need to do the same, but honestly I would not be surprised if Grimaldi does a lot better his freshman year than Gerbe's 18 points in 39 games. Of course Gerbe was buried a bit on a stacked BC team.

 

[FytinSioux]

There is alot more hitting in the NHL than there is in the NCAA...........end of discussion. The CHL is a much closer comparison to the NHL in terms of physical play and intimidation.

Prove it. You sound pretty confident.

As far as the CHL goes, that's not what this thread is about, but you couldn't be more wrong. NCAAs limited schedule gives guys more time to hit the weight room. NCAA players are also older.

 

[tyratoku]

I talked to him a handful of times in the dorms last year, just bumping into each other, he just went on and on about the Florida organization one of the times I talked to him, he seemed very impressed. I'm happy for him.

My window overlooked the road out to the wellness center(weight rooms and such), and I probably saw him walking that way 4-5 times a week at least, even when he had his boot on. Very, very determined guy.

I'm 5'9", 5'10" maybe, and he was at least a few inches shorter than me. Very, very built from the looks of it though. Nice guy, pretty cool to talk to, both about hockey and life in general. Hopefully he makes it.

 

[canuck2010]

So...an inch and 13 lbs difference...on average...

Not much different at all.

Thing is those guys are much better players than NCAA players.

 

[Howboutthempanthers]

Gerbe being sold "short" here with his skill level IMO... Was an elite college scorer which hasn't translated over to the NHL yet...but he was saddled with Gaustad as his center for most of his career no? Not going to mix up Gaustad and Adam Oates any time soon..

Grimaldi plays center. Should make a difference, no?

 

[canuck2010]

There are reasons he might not translate well to the NHL, but the size of his opponents isn't one of them. If you're 5'6", what do you care if your opponent is an inch taller and 13 lbs heavier on average? They are still a lot bigger than you either way. There is less clutching and grabbing in the NHL, and I can't prove it, but I'd be willing to bet there is less hitting as well.

7 to 8 inches and 30 lbs is a lot to care about in hockey. It just makes it that much tougher for you to play someone like that. I'll lean on you and skate you off the puck all night long.

I remember hearing a phone in show some years ago where the caller stated that Theo Fleury could do everything that Eric Lindros could. The former NHLer guest told him he had it wrong. Eric Lindros could do everything Theo Fleury could.

 

[as15]

UND fan here who hasn't missed watching a home game in almost 10 years. I know most people won't agree with what I am saying, but I have been extremely impressed with Rocco so far.

In my opinion, he is the most individually explosive player that I have ever seen at UND, and yes that includes Toews, Parise, Oshie etc.. His skating is what sets him apart from most other players. There was a rush in OT last weekend where Rocco and Danny Kristo, one of the fastest players in the country, were on a 2 on 2. Rocco blew so far ahead of Kristo that he just stopped skating, he was that much faster than him. He is a player, at least at the college level, that can generate offense no matter the skill level of his line mates. Once he gets the fine parts of the game back (finishing, crisper passes, maintaining possession etc.) he is going to start putting up monster points at this level.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

So...an inch and 13 lbs difference...on average...

Not much different at all.

You don't see the difference between college hockey and the NHL?

 

[IkeaMonkey*]

You don't see the difference between college hockey and the NHL?

You don't see the difference between a 19 year old man and a 25 year old man?

To even make the comparison between competition, with that age gap is nonsense.

 

[MN_Gopher]

The NHL is a lofty goal for anyone.

Problem with guys like Grimaldi, smaller guys. The mind is willing but the body can only take so much.

A guy like Cal Clutterbuck. Not small either. To play his way, hitting everything. I see a short career. Its hard to keep up thatl evel of play when you hit people bigger than you.

Gerbe another example. Great in spurts but i do not see him playing a full NHL year or staying very long. Simular size and numbers.

Peter Sejna, Ryan Duncan, Jeff Taffe, Garret Roe, Marty Sertich, Brett Sterling, Ryan Potulny, Ryan Lasch, Jack Connolly, Brady Murray, Junior Lessard, Brandon Bochenski, Chad Rau, Jay Barriball etc... all recents from the WCHA. All had one aspect that was amazing. All fringe NHLers if they ever even made it. Speedsters, wicked wristers, rocket one timers, things you cannot teach.

Nodak does not have an easy game for some time. The next 10 games will tell alot. Playing BU, NotreDame, CC, DU, SCSU and UMD. Before this they played both Alaskas', two very weak teams.

 

[as15]

The NHL is a lofty goal for anyone.

Problem with guys like Grimaldi, smaller guys. The mind is willing but the body can only take so much.

A guy like Cal Clutterbuck. Not small either. To play his way, hitting everything. I see a short career. Its hard to keep up thatl evel of play when you hit people bigger than you.

Gerbe another example. Great in spurts but i do not see him playing a full NHL year or staying very long. Simular size and numbers.

Peter Sejna, Ryan Duncan, Jeff Taffe, Garret Roe, Marty Sertich, Brett Sterling, Ryan Potulny, Ryan Lasch, Jack Connolly, Brady Murray, Junior Lessard, Brandon Bochenski, Chad Rau, Jay Barriball etc... all recents from the WCHA. All had one aspect that was amazing. All fringe NHLers if they ever even made it. Speedsters, wicked wristers, rocket one timers, things you cannot teach.

Nodak does not have an easy game for some time. The next 10 games will tell alot. Playing BU, NotreDame, CC, DU, SCSU and UMD. Before this they played both Alaskas', two very weak teams.

I totally agree with what you are saying, but besides size, what does Grimaldi not have? Just wondering because the majority of players on your list were small.

 

[MN_Gopher]

I totally agree with what you are saying, but besides size, what does Grimaldi not have? Just wondering because the majority of players on your list were small.

Grimaldi is an amazing talent. He has everything. One thing i have noticed is that size in itself is not a problem, exactly.

Grimaldi is basically done growing. He is not going to go through an akward stage of size and growth and then balance. He may improve in areas but not by leaps and bounds. Thats why so many of those little guys rip up the NCAA. They have their mature bodies.

Blake Wheeler. Drafted at 185, played at the U at a max of 230 listed as an NHLer at 215. Imagine what that does to abilities? He was outplayed by Ryan Duncan, same time in the WCHA. Duncan did not have growing pains. He also never got faster, more agile etc... Wheelr last year led his NHL tean in scoring. Duncan 4th on his AHL team.

Grimaldi has peaked at 19. We are comparing his peak abilities to others that still have room to grow(literally). He only has so much room to add muscle before he loses speed. This what you get in Grimaldi, transplant him to the NHL right now. It looks a little tough.

I am not writing him off. Watch these next 10-15 games and see what happens. They will tell a lot.

 

[mkoivu9*]

He's top 5 easily in skill for his draft year. I'd personally rate only Ryan Nugent-Hopkins as clearly better than him. He does well with what he has, extremely quick and smart so he avoids contact. Super skill, tremendous release and quick on his feet.

Unfortunately he really is 5'6''.

 

[mkoivu9*]

A long shot???

He is bigger, faster, stronger, more aggressive and more skilled than Gerbe............what league does gerbe play in again?

How many Nate Gerbe's are in the NHL? Figure it out.

 

[Circulartheory]

The NHL is a lofty goal for anyone.

Problem with guys like Grimaldi, smaller guys. The mind is willing but the body can only take so much.

A guy like Cal Clutterbuck. Not small either. To play his way, hitting everything. I see a short career. Its hard to keep up thatl evel of play when you hit people bigger than you.

Gerbe another example. Great in spurts but i do not see him playing a full NHL year or staying very long. Simular size and numbers.

Peter Sejna, Ryan Duncan, Jeff Taffe, Garret Roe, Marty Sertich, Brett Sterling, Ryan Potulny, Ryan Lasch, Jack Connolly, Brady Murray, Junior Lessard, Brandon Bochenski, Chad Rau, Jay Barriball etc... all recents from the WCHA. All had one aspect that was amazing. All fringe NHLers if they ever even made it. Speedsters, wicked wristers, rocket one timers, things you cannot teach.

Nodak does not have an easy game for some time. The next 10 games will tell alot. Playing BU, NotreDame, CC, DU, SCSU and UMD. Before this they played both Alaskas', two very weak teams.

While I agree with the general idea, using Clutterbuck is not something I agree with. With Clutterbuck, you mentioned that he will have a short career because his body can't take it?

If he was a normal 180lbs for a 5-11 guy, sure. I would agree. But Clutterbuck is a good 213lbs. That is quite big for a 5-11 player. He is this big because he recognizes that his body needs to withstand the grind like you mention.

So yes, I agree with the general idea that height is a major factor. But height isn't the only factor. Muscle mass, elusive/speed ability etc are factor into a player's ability to stick in the NHL.

If a player was NHL average and equal on every factor but was short, then I would agree with the general idea that there should be doubt if he can have a long NHL career. But if he can compensate that shortness by becoming extraordinary in another factor, then it balances it out IMO.

In Clutterbuck's case, he's short but he compensates by being a huge 213lbs. Players like Eberle compensate by being extraordinarily elusive. Its a major balancing act.

EDIT: It works the other way around as well. Say a guy is extraordinarily big, he can make it into the NHL even if he was a little less skilled in other areas like skating or puckskills.

 

[MN_Gopher]

While I agree with the general idea, using Clutterbuck is not something I agree with. With Clutterbuck, you mentioned that he will have a short career because his body can't take it?

If he was a normal 180lbs for a 5-11 guy, sure. I would agree. But Clutterbuck is a good 213lbs. That is quite big for a 5-11 player. He is this big because he recognizes that his body needs to withstand the grind like you mention.

So yes, I agree with the general idea that height is a major factor. But height isn't the only factor. Muscle mass, elusive/speed ability etc are factor into a player's ability to stick in the NHL.

If a player was NHL average and equal on every factor but was short, then I would agree with the general idea that there should be doubt if he can have a long NHL career. But if he can compensate that shortness by becoming extraordinary in another factor, then it balances it out IMO.

In Clutterbuck's case, he's short but he compensates by being a huge 213lbs. Players like Eberle compensate by being extraordinarily elusive. Its a major balancing act.

EDIT: It works the other way around as well. Say a guy is extraordinarily big, he can make it into the NHL even if he was a little less skilled in other areas like skating or puckskills.

Maybe not the best, still, Clutterbuck misses on average a little over 6 games a year in a 4 year NHL career. It is not a lot, but it shows just how his career is taking a toll. Last year, he did not look as good. Its lower body and upper. Its not one nagging groin or something specific that can go away.

 

[Circulartheory]

Maybe not the best, still, Clutterbuck misses on average a little over 6 games a year in a 4 year NHL career. It is not a lot, but it shows just how his career is taking a toll. Last year, he did not look as good. Its lower body and upper. Its not one nagging groin or something specific that can go away.

I'm very confused...

1. Isn't 6 games a year in a 4 year NHL career good? It isn't Brunette ironman but its around 92%, isn't that good for any physical sport?
   
2. Wasn't he not as good as before because he tried to hit less because he was targeted more by refs? There was a Russo article on it and Clutterbuck said something along the lines of changing his style a bit to contribute more to the play rather than penalty minutes. It was to do with the league cracking down on dangerous hits.
   
3. Isn't the nagging groin that type of injuries that don't go away and the lower and upper bodies that do go away?
   
4. Clutterbuck hasn't suffered an injury that lasted more than 5 games, and those injuries were either the flu, sprained left ankle or an upper body injury. Since its not more than 5 games, to me, it isn't something serious

But since this is a Rocco Grimaldi thread, my point still stands. Its all a balancing act. If you lack size, you compensate with something else. If have huge size, you can be a little less skilled in other areas and still survive. Guys like Chara, however, at big AND skilled, making them elite. That is why you also see smaller players succeed like Eberle and Parise. Parise isn't the biggest guy or the most elusive, but he makes it up with strength and skill.

Again, its a balancing act. It isn't all reliant on one factor like size, or some might argue, skill. Its both. And that is making it simple because there is other factors as well such as hockey sense, hardwork, strength etc.

EDIT: As a follow up, I doubt we will ever see a franchise 5-8 forward, because he would have to compensate with generational skill and even that may not be enough, so in that sense, I agree with you. But can Grimaldi become an NHLer that contributes, for sure, if he is skilled enough or elusive/fast enough.

 

[JackHughes86]

maybe rocco grows becomes 5'11

 

[flapanthersfan]

Grimaldi is an amazing talent. He has everything. One thing i have noticed is that size in itself is not a problem, exactly.

Grimaldi is basically done growing. He is not going to go through an akward stage of size and growth and then balance. He may improve in areas but not by leaps and bounds. Thats why so many of those little guys rip up the NCAA. They have their mature bodies.

Blake Wheeler. Drafted at 185, played at the U at a max of 230 listed as an NHLer at 215. Imagine what that does to abilities? He was outplayed by Ryan Duncan, same time in the WCHA. Duncan did not have growing pains. He also never got faster, more agile etc... Wheelr last year led his NHL tean in scoring. Duncan 4th on his AHL team.

Grimaldi has peaked at 19. We are comparing his peak abilities to others that still have room to grow(literally). He only has so much room to add muscle before he loses speed. This what you get in Grimaldi, transplant him to the NHL right now. It looks a little tough.

I am not writing him off. Watch these next 10-15 games and see what happens. They will tell a lot.

no offense - but this is one of the dumbest things i've ever heard.

just because he can't mature physically doesn't mean he can't mature as a player. players take time to adapt to different facets of the game. with time, as rocco becomes accustomed to the speed of the game in NCAA, i'm assuming his play will improve as well.

as with most, if not all, offensive stars, there's a "hockey sense" factor that can't be attributed to physical gifts. martin st.louis is a perfect example, and while i understand he's defintely the exception and not the norm of guys this size, from what i've been hearing, grimaldi has been pretty impressive in just a handful of games and has tons and tons of time in his collegiate career to improve himself as a player. to say he's "peaked" at 19 and this grimaldi after a handful of games of NCAA play is what he will be as a potential NHLer is one of the most asinine things i've ever read.


that being said, i appreciate all the input. hope to see rocco play myself soon