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RW Matvei Michkov - HC Sochi, KHL (2023 Draft) - PART 3

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bert said:
But you can compare Bedards production to other players in the tournament. Other players in the past and other 17 year Olds. There are measuring sticks for both players. Both can still he elite players. No one has done what Bedard has done at his age.

It's been quite clear all year it's Bedard 1, Michkov 2 with Carlson and Fantilli battling for 3. Anyone who says different is looking for clicks.


No way he goes 5 or 6. Teams will still pick the best player. They'll wait if they have to clearly it was worth it for Minnesota.
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Big difference for an NHL GM/Owner between taking a risk on a 5th round pick vs a top 5 pick. I think he should go #2 but there's a legit chance he falls out of the top 5.
 
ViD said:
Michkov doesn’t play against his peers at all this year. He’s on another level of competition than Bedard now.
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This reminds me of the Kakko vs. Hughes thing all over again. Kakko played against men in a tougher league and dominated during his draft year, and he even played well against some legit NHL players in the WC before draft. On top of that, Kakko came up as the winner every time he faced Hughes, and he was bigger and stronger (even compared to Bedard or Michkov). It looked certain that Kakko would make an impact in the NHL right away, even if Hughes might have had the higher ceiling. Well, turns out that in the end Hughes was undeniably the better prospect, just as Bedard is compared to Michkov.
 
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pelderhostiga said:
This reminds me of the Kakko vs. Hughes thing all over again. Kakko played against men in a tougher league and dominated during his draft year, and he even played well against some legit NHL players in the WC before draft. On top of that, Kakko came up as the winner every time he faced Hughes, and he was bigger and stronger (even compared to Bedard or Michkov). It looked certain that Kakko would make an impact in the NHL right away, even if Hughes might have had the higher ceiling. Well, turns out that in the end Hughes was undeniably the better prospect, just as Bedard is compared to Michkov.
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When 6'3 205 player scores because of his physical domination, it's one thing. When 5'8 kid scores because of his IQ it's another...

And he wasn't even the best player on his team, TPS had 4 players with equel or more points, his PPG was 3rd on the team. At WC level he scored most of his points in 2 games and was complete non-factor vs tougher opponents. And he scored whopping 5 points in 7 games at WJC...
 
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Kshahdoo said:
When 6'3 205 player scores because of his physical domination, it's one thing. When 5'8 kid scores because of his IQ it's another...

And he wasn't even the best player on his team, TPS had 4 players with equel or more points, his PPG was 3rd on the team. At WC level he scored most of his points in 2 games and was complete non-factor vs tougher opponents. And he scored whopping 5 points in 7 games at WJC...
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Yes he was.
 
NatusVincere said:
People comparing Michkov to Ovechkin or Kakko to make a point should better invest some time in actual watching Michkov play instead of sharing their concerns with us.
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Well, at least I haven't compared Michkov to Kakko. I compared the situation of Hughes vs Kakko to the situation of Bedard vs Michkov. In both cases, one prospect is clearly better than the other, and still people come up with all kinds of arguments to defend the other prospect. As I have already said, Michkov might be a great prospect and he might become a great NHL player one day. Still, Bedard is better, just as Hughes was when he was compared to Kakko.
 
Real shame we didn’t get to see him vs Bedard at the WJC

There isn’t a very big gap between the two skill wise
 
pelderhostiga said:
Well, at least I haven't compared Michkov to Kakko. I compared the situation of Hughes vs Kakko to the situation of Bedard vs Michkov. In both cases, one prospect is clearly better than the other, and still people come up with all kinds of arguments to defend the other prospect. As I have already said, Michkov might be a great prospect and he might become a great NHL player one day. Still, Bedard is better, just as Hughes was when he was compared to Kakko.
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What is so similar about their situation, except that one plays against men and the other doesn't? Exactly, absolutely nothing. And I highly doubt that you're able to estimate which one of Michkov/Bedard is clearly superior to the other.
 
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pelderhostiga said:
Well, at least I haven't compared Michkov to Kakko. I compared the situation of Hughes vs Kakko to the situation of Bedard vs Michkov. In both cases, one prospect is clearly better than the other, and still people come up with all kinds of arguments to defend the other prospect. As I have already said, Michkov might be a great prospect and he might become a great NHL player one day. Still, Bedard is better, just as Hughes was when he was compared to Kakko.
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Clearly better according to your eye test of Bedard. As I doubt you've seen Michkov play much.
 
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NatusVincere said:
What is so similar about their situation, except that one plays against men and the other doesn't?
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The fact that there are some die hard fans trying to make a case for the number two guy being better with various arguments (some of which hold some truth to them but some of which are plain silly) while all pro scouts are unanimous in their decision of picking the number one guy first. In that sense, it reminds me of the Hughes/Kakko debate and, now that I think about it, even more of the Matthews/Laine debate. In all of these cases, the unanimous number one guy is/was the number one guy for a reason, and that can be said without taking anything away from the number two guy. That's my last two cents about this.
 
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lanky said:
I mostly see it the same way. But I also acknowledge that there might be a couple of GMs that strictly will not draft a Russian with a 1st round pick. If one of those guys is holding the 5th pick and Michkov is still available, does he trade down or does he pick someone else?
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Depends on what thev phone that rings offers I bet. Other way better keep it. High end talent gets through draft,
 
pelderhostiga said:
The fact that there are some die hard fans trying to make a case for the number two guy being better with various arguments (some of which hold some truth to them but some of which are plain silly) while all pro scouts are unanimous in their decision of picking the number one guy first. In that sense, it reminds me of the Hughes/Kakko debate and, now that I think about it, even more of the Matthews/Laine debate. In all of these cases, the unanimous number one guy is/was the number one guy for a reason, and that can be said without taking anything away from the number two guy. That's my last two cents about this.
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the Matthews Laine debate was almost war in writing....
It was sure never that close.

Hughes Kakko was never ever a battle for the spot, anyway posters was aggressive on Kakko being so much better suited for NHL. oh, poor guy, I wonder if that hit him.
 
pelderhostiga said:
This reminds me of the Kakko vs. Hughes thing all over again. Kakko played against men in a tougher league and dominated during his draft year, and he even played well against some legit NHL players in the WC before draft. On top of that, Kakko came up as the winner every time he faced Hughes, and he was bigger and stronger (even compared to Bedard or Michkov). It looked certain that Kakko would make an impact in the NHL right away, even if Hughes might have had the higher ceiling. Well, turns out that in the end Hughes was undeniably the better prospect, just as Bedard is compared to Michkov.
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No one is arguing that Michkov is bigger and stronger, quite the opposite actually.
 
Panthaz89 said:
I get that he's under Bedard but who in the right mind wouldn't pick him 2nd over the other guys...who haven't shown anything close you 100% roll the dice on the much better Russian he might come a few years later but he's a much much better prospect than Fantilli imo.
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Michkov has been blowing Fantili, Carlson and others out of the water when he competed against them in the past. The problem is that this year he's banned from patricipating in the international events and his play this year leaves a lot to be desired for anyone who took an effort to watch him play, yet he plays against adults, not kids. Michkov could be easily better than Beddard or worse than Fantili. Tough to gauge him.
 
NatusVincere said:
What is so similar about their situation, except that one plays against men and the other doesn't? Exactly, absolutely nothing. And I highly doubt that you're able to estimate which one of Michkov/Bedard is clearly superior to the other.
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The fact that all these fancy scouts got ahead of themselves and ranked Fantilli and Carlsson ahead of Michkov only for everyone to discover during the WJC just how overrated they are proves that most North American scouts don't know a lick about Russian prospects.

And this doesn't just apply to Michkov. People are sleeping on Gulyayev too.
 
Panthaz89 said:
I get that he's under Bedard but who in the right mind wouldn't pick him 2nd over the other guys...who haven't shown anything close you 100% roll the dice on the much better Russian he might come a few years later but he's a much much better prospect than Fantilli imo.
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agreed
 
Before WJC, I thought that Fantilli and Carlsson were pretty close to Michkov, because the guys from hfboards said so. But their numbers disappointed me. Fantilli - 2+3 in 7. Carlsson - 3+3 in 7.
All-time record for goals per season belongs to Naslund. 13 goals in 7 games. I think this is a realistic target for Michkov in this tournament, I see his numbers like 13+7 in 7. Too bad we'll never know.
 
olgerd said:
Before WJC, I thought that Fantilli and Carlsson were pretty close to Michkov, because the guys from hfboards said so. But their numbers disappointed me. Fantilli - 2+3 in 7. Carlsson - 3+3 in 7.
All-time record for goals per season belongs to Naslund. 13 goals in 7 games. I think this is a realistic target for Michkov in this tournament, I see his numbers like 13+7 in 7. Too bad we'll never know.
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So you’re comparing their performance to Michkov… based on you imagining that Michkov would have scored at a record breaking pace despite him not playing in the tournament?
 
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