RW Matvei Michkov (2023, 7th, PHI) Part 4

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Kshahdoo

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Ok, you have proven that Michkov was definitely a more impressive prospect 2 years ago. Congratulation))


How your whataboutism denies the point that Michkovs record is meaningless idol for NA stat watchers?

Did anyone claim that Bedard only scored at best goalies or smth?

Never saw anybody insisted that Michkov scored all of his points against elite KHLers either. He just scored them in the KHL, and his PPG was record for 1st year draft players, nothing more nothing less...

As to whether his KHL records matter or not, look at top KHL scorers and top scorers from other leagues who've moved to NHL and become solid players and even stars...
 
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Garl

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Isn`t as pro? He has record\near record season in second best pro league for player of his age. You have 3-4 years of steady calm life. Than you will regret about everything you said. And you said a lot. Like flyers, you should invest a lot in this years. But like Boston it`s the end of your prime. Use it wisely.
Where is that second best hype coming from? For real?
 

Snotbubbles

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Oct 25, 2007
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Is there some scientific formula for why Tanner Moledyk has a lot lower chances of becoming a #1 defenseman than Connor Bedard scoring a lot of points, or are you just making assumptions?

I didn't make that assumption, strawman, you did.

I won't dig up the forum to show you the graphs, but yeah, projection models have consistently shown that Michkov has much higher chances of becoming a star. Why are you even hyping Reinbacher as a #1 defenseman? He hasn't shown particurlarly outstanding offensive production, and eye test proves that expecting him not to become a defense-first player is overly ambitious.

I have already answered this up-thread. Maybe read the post instead of jumping in in the middle.
 

Zine

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For all you crapping on Kunlun... Their #4/5 defenseman, Ryan Sproul, won CHL defenceman of the year in 2013.
What do you think he'd do vs CHL kids, or the NCAA, as a 30 year old seasoned vet? That's right, Kunlun's 4/5th defenseman would annihilate those leagues.

Yet somehow torching Kunlun is a negative for Michkov?
If that's the case might as well throw all Bedard and Fantilli's achievements out the window also.
 

Redpath

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I didn't make that assumption, strawman, you did.



I have already answered this up-thread. Maybe read the post instead of jumping in in the middle.

Okay, then let me ask you: Does Connor Bedard have a better chance of scoring a lot of points versus Tanner Moledyk becoming a #1 defenseman?

If your answer is yes, how can you say so without making assumptions?

If your answer is no, your opinion is laughable.
 

Garl

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Never saw anybody insisted that Michkov scored all of his points against elite KHLers either. He just scored them in the KHL, and his PPG was record for 1st year draft players, nothing more nothing less...

As to whether his KHL records matter or not, look at top KHL scorers and top scorers from other leagues who've moved to NHL and become solid players and even stars...
Strawman. The "best season evar" is one of the main talking points regarding Michkov even though it is completely meaningless since it is not the best season ever.
 
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NatusVincere

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Bs, but your bias makes you say that.
He is a chinese born and trained goalie playing for chinese team. He is not even close to a top euro league goalie
Lol… Him playing in a top euro league kinda contradicts what you say… talking about bias. And Michkov was in two games against SKA one of if not the best player on the ice (at least in one game he was). That’s better than everything Bedard, Carlsson or Fantilli had ever to deal with. And about “not good enough for the WC”, Bedard played sommer hockey instead of Hungary. I would have too. Michkov lackrossed the Swedish senior team 16 years old, he doesn’t need to prove him against D-Level competition. Fantilli and Carlsson had to… and looked mediocre. Like they always do on international stage.
 

Zine

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Bs, but your bias makes you say that.
He is a chinese born and trained goalie playing for chinese team. He is not even close to a top euro league goalie

Lol… Him playing in a top euro league kinda contradicts what you say… talking about bias. And Michkov was in two games against SKA one of if not the best player on the ice (at least in one game he was). That’s better than everything Bedard, Carlsson or Fantilli had ever to deal with. And about “not good enough for the WC”, Bedard played sommer hockey instead of Hungary. I would have too. Michkov lackrossed the Swedish senior team 16 years old, he doesn’t need to prove him against D-Level competition. Fantilli and Carlsson had to… and looked mediocre. Like they always do on international stage.

Ahh, that's right. I forgot 16 year old Michkov lacrossed Gustaf Lindvall, who was 3rd in both SHL save% and GAA that year. Not to mention he won SHL Goalie of the Year 2 years previous.

But I still agree with Garl. Only Superman Carlsson can score on such fantastic SHL goaltending. Michkov has significantly regressed from his 16 year old self and can only light-up Chinese goalies these days.
There's no hope for poor Mavei.
 

Snotbubbles

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Okay, then let me ask you: Does Connor Bedard have a better chance of scoring a lot of points versus Tanner Moledyk becoming a #1 defenseman?

If your answer is yes, how can you say so without making assumptions?

If your answer is no, your opinion is laughable.

I can only make assumptions on what will happen in the future, that's the point. I don't know, you don't know, nobody knows. The NHL scouts don't know. The NHL GMs don't know. If they did then for example in 2006 Claude Giroux wouldn't have gone #22 or Brad Marchand #71 they would have both gone top 10. The NHL draft is rife with busts and steals every year.

So if you're asking me does the Michkov who was drafted #7 have a better chance of scoring a lot of points versus Reinbacher who was drafted #5 becoming a #1 defenseman, I would say...I don't know. Past performance does not mean future success. There are so many variables, a players work ethic, surrounding players, coaches, system, etc. I wouldn't say either has a better or worse chance of becoming the best version of themselves that they can become.
 

Zine

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It is the best season ever though...

People are focusing too much on specifics and losing sight of th big picture.

The fact remains that nobody has simultaneously dominated KHL/RSL and interntional competition to the extent Michkov has in a very, very long time.

It's his dominance over a wide spectrum of levels and leagues that is most important.
 

Frank Drebin

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He hasn't shown particurlarly outstanding offensive production, and eye test proves that expecting him not to become a defense-first player is overly ambitious.
I'm not sure how this projects but Rein finished around 110th overall in nl scoring, in a men's league, as an 18 year old defenseman. I haven't been able to apply the so called eye test but if he's a defense first player like you suggest, isnt that all the more impressive?

If michkov played a full season at the same rate, he would have finished around 50th in khl scoring.

I would say both seasons are pretty impressive, statistically at least?
 

Hanji

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You really need to get your myopic Russophobe blinkers off. Anything you say regarding Russian players needs to taken with a block of salt.

This Garl character shows up in every russian related thread, Always negatively.
I can set my watch to him/her.


oh-ill-be-8gizl2.jpg
 
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Hanji

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I'm not sure how this projects but Rein finished around 110th overall in nl scoring, in a men's league, as an 18 year old defenseman. I haven't been able to apply the so called eye test but if he's a defense first player like you suggest, isnt that all the more impressive?

If michkov played a full season at the same rate, he would have finished around 50th in khl scoring.

I would say both seasons are pretty impressive, statistically at least?

The outright lack of quality young defensemen in the NL makes any comparison difficult.
All I know is Matthews set that league on fire his draft season (2nd in ppg). On no planet would he be able to do that in the KHL.
 

Frank Drebin

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The outright lack of quality young defensemen in the NL makes any comparison difficult.
All I know is Matthews set that league on fire his draft season (2nd in ppg). On no planet would he be able to do that in the KHL.
Matthews finished second in the NHL for goals during his rookie year.

You know he wouldn't have done as well in the khl for what reason exactly?
 

Hanji

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Matthews finished second in the NHL for goals during his rookie year.

You know he wouldn't have done as well in the khl for what reason exactly?

Because no draft eligible player has achieved that in the history of Soviet, Russian, KHL hockey leagues. This includes Ovechkin and Malkin who played in a less talented early 2000s RSL with fewer imports.
But if you think all-time hockey royalty like Auston Matthews could achieve it, more power to you.
 

Frank Drebin

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Because no draft eligible player has achieved that in the history of Soviet, Russian, KHL hockey leagues. This includes Ovechkin and Malkin who played in a less talented early 2000s RSL with fewer imports.
But if you think all-time hockey royalty like Auston Matthews could achieve it, more power to you.
If you can score 40 in the NHL, you can score in the khl.

Maybe ovechkin, malkin, etc stats suffered from other things besides the league just being too tough. Maybe they didn't get proper usage and ice time. Maybe khl coaches make the kids pay their dues. Lots of variables.

But you're not going to tell me that the khl is a tougher league than the nhl simply because many elite18 year olds didn't have statistically impressive seasons.

If an 18 year old Matthews was " the guy" for a khl team he'd easily crack top 10 scoring league wide, with the likes of Nigel Dawes, Brandon bochenski and Linus omark.
 

Caser

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If you can score 40 in the NHL, you can score in the khl.

Maybe ovechkin, malkin, etc stats suffered from other things besides the league just being too tough. Maybe they didn't get proper usage and ice time. Maybe khl coaches make the kids pay their dues. Lots of variables.

But you're not going to tell me that the khl is a tougher league than the nhl simply because many elite18 year olds didn't have statistically impressive seasons.

If an 18 year old Matthews was " the guy" for a khl team he'd easily crack top 10 scoring league wide, with the likes of Nigel Dawes, Brandon bochenski and Linus omark.
The issue is that since it is the KHL a 18 year old would like never be "the guy" for a team, he would be playing some middle-six role and good luck getting into the Top 10 with that kind of usage.
 
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Frank Drebin

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The issue is that since it is the KHL a 18 year old would like never be "the guy" for a team, he would be playing some middle-six role and good luck getting into the Top 10 with that kind of usage.

Very good. Now we're getting somewhere. So likely the low stats are due to usage and ice time. And each case, might be different.

A player on a very good team might have less of a chance to be "the guy" than a player on a very bad team.

The khl suppressed rookie stats and "records" likely don't mean a lot.
 
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ThisIsMyAlibi

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Co-director of amateur scouting Nick Bobrov when asked why the Habs opted to draft Reinbacher over Michkov : "We're building a culture; we want certain things that permeate that culture as we keep building this. We felt that this player embodies the type of culture that Jeff, Kent, Marty and the coaching staff are trying to build, and that was not a trivial matter to us. So, culture was an important word."

Washington Capitals scout Andrei Nikolishin concerning Matvei Michkov:
"To me, he's first or second in skill [in the draft]. But when it comes to character, to attitude to his teammates, coaching staff, management, fans - the man has now fallen very low in the eyes of all the scouts, all the managers. It has nothing to do with the tragedy. Information about the player is collected - how he talks to his partners, how he talks to the coaches, how he behaves off the ice. And that's where it gets rough for Matvey. There are a lot of nuances that could be revealed. I can show you the correspondence when I wanted to meet with him and, as a scout, ask him some questions and do an interview, how he responds. I've never seen such disrespect in my life for other people"


Blue Jackets GM Jarmo Kekäläinen when asked if they met with Michkov or whether were planning on having a meeting with him before the draft, his response? : a resounding no


Anonymous SKA Petersburg teammate: "He doesn't listen to anything the veterans tell him, he doesn't listen to the coaches, he doesn't hesitate to laugh at them and send them away. He only does what he wants. We really tried to give him a chance and understand him, but we realized he's just a piece of shit."

Sharks GM Mark Grier why he didn't choose Michkov with the 4th pick :


You can choose to believe what you want but by connecting the dots, it's clear his attitude and major character problems are the reasons why he fell to #7, and it had little to do with his 2026 contract in Russia.

This is damning. The kid is a clown.
 

Caser

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Very good. Now we're getting somewhere. So likely the low stats are due to usage and ice time. And each case, might be different.

A player on a very good team might have less of a chance to be "the guy" than a player on a very bad team.

The khl suppressed rookie stats and "records" likely don't mean a lot.
Well since they all are suppressed in some way they can be compared, however I'd definitely factor in the TOI then. Still I don't understand the point of comparing of let's say Ovechkin and Michkov, as those are like totally different environments almost 20 years apart.
 

WarriorofTime

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If you can score 40 in the NHL, you can score in the khl.
What are saying sounds good in theory, it often doesn't really play out that way. Young players just don't get tons of opportunity on their KHL teams and it tends to be stubbornly regimented in terms of progressing up. Players don't really get to skip the line even when they are the greatest junior player ever. Ovechkin a GPG player as a 17 year old at the WJC and being a 15 pt in 40 games in the RSL is kinda the epitome of that.
 

Frank Drebin

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Well since they all are suppressed in some way they can be compared, however I'd definitely factor in the TOI then. Still I don't understand the point of comparing of let's say Ovechkin and Michkov, as those are like totally different environments almost 20 years apart.
I don't understand either. 20 points in 30 games is not impressive, nor is 24 points in 53 games or 32 points in 52 games.

Not suggesting that this is the case with Michkov, but a team could certainly showcase and inflate a players stats by giving more favorable ice time and linemates, than was given to ov and malkin, respectively.

Because I refuse to believe that an 18 year old ovechkin was less of a player offensively than 95% of the players on this list

 
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