RW Matvei Michkov (2023, 7th, PHI) Part 4

[Snotbubbles]

A bunch of points is like 120+?

Do you think the Kings or Blues cared that Stamkos scored 1000+ points when they had Doughty and Pietrangelo?

Do you think Tampa Bay cared that Tavares nearly 1000 points when they had Hedman?

When you get a stud, #1 defenseman, you're happy.

 

[Snotbubbles]

There's a difference between having some cockiness and arrogance like Brad Marchand and being a serious locker room cancer teams won't put up with. Things like SKA sending Michkov away to Sochi because they don't want to deal with him anymore, Washington scouts being disgusted with his disrespect when meeting him, Columbus not even bothering to book an interview, Montreal and San Jose implicitly speaking about this kid not fitting with their culture and how there are aspects about him they don't like, how he talks to his teammates, how he talks to the coaches and how he behaves off the ice is really concerning. You even see it all the time with teams like Nashville buying out the contract of Duchene despite being their best forward for the past 4 years, Winnipeg stripping Wheeler of captaincy then buying out his contract a year later, Laine as a big-time 30 to 40 goal scorer in the league being traded away and Subban a fan-favorite in Montreal traded for a 3 year older but better leader in Weber. Again wish him the best of luck in Philly but if you thought the relationship between Torts and PLD was bad, wait till he comes to North America with this attitude.

Wait...so Columbus was so concerned about Michkov's character that they didn't bother to interview him? Then you use Laine as an example of a player with character issues? Refresh my memory, what team does Laine play for?

I would say the more plausible reason that Columbus didn't book an interview with Michkov was that there were similar high ceiling players available at #3 that waiting 3 years, if ever, for a player to come over wasn't worth the risk. Anything you hear from teams around draft time, you take with a grain of salt.

 

[Snotbubbles]

If hypothetically Reinbacher is Noah Dobson and Simashev is Mattias Samuelsson, you sure as hell will care if Mickov is Nikita Kucherov (or if he truly hits his ceiling the yearly Rocket Richard favorite).

Noah Dobson and Mattias Sameulsson aren't stud #1 defensemen. See you're doing that thing that others are doing who make the case against Michkov. Where you take the best case scenario for the player you're hyping and take a middling scenario for the player you're trying to downgrade. If Reinbacher and/or Simashev turns into Erik Karlsson, you're not going to care if Michkov is a Rocket favorite. See...if you take a best case scenario for all the players the argument isn't as strong.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Do you think the Kings or Blues cared that Stamkos scored 1000+ points when they had Doughty and Pietrangelo?

Do you think Tampa Bay cared that Tavares nearly 1000 points when they had Hedman?

When you get a stud, #1 defenseman, you're happy.

Michkov is more like Kucherov or Kane, than Stamkos. And if you compare Kane's + Kucherov's cups and finals vs Doughty and Pietrangelo ones, you'll see the difference...

 

[Snotbubbles]

Michkov is more like Kucherov or Kane, than Stamkos. And if you compare Kane's + Kucherov's cups and finals vs Doughty and Pietrangelo ones, you'll see the difference...

Cups are team accomplishments. But I do like how you left out Hedman in your post since it defeats your analogy.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Michkov is more like Kucherov or Kane, than Stamkos. And if you compare Kane's + Kucherov's cups and finals vs Doughty and Pietrangelo ones, you'll see the difference...

Kane 3 cups
Kucherov 2 cups
Stamkos 2 cups

Hedman 2 cups
Doughty 2 cups
Pietrangelo 2 cups

The difference is one cup?

 

[Acallabeth]

Why would Nick Bobrov speak about culture building when implicitly asked to explain their decision of Reinbacher over Michkov?

What else would he say? 'I outsmarted myself and made a mistake'?

Kane 3 cups
Kucherov 2 cups
Stamkos 2 cups

Hedman 2 cups
Doughty 2 cups
Pietrangelo 2 cups

The difference is one cup?

Bobby Orr and Brooks Orpik both have 2 Cups. Any difference?
Also, you know that Kucherov, Hedman and Stamkos play on the same team, right? Lol

When you get a stud, #1 defenseman, you're happy.

Yeah, of course, but why are you bringing it up discussing Reinbacher?

 

[Frank Drebin]

Bobby Orr and Brooks Orpik both have 2 Cups. Any difference?
Also, you know that Kucherov, Hedman and Stamkos play on the same team, right? Lol

Take it up with the guy that compared the cups of kucherov and Kane to doughty and pietrangelo. Dumb right?

 

[TGWL]

Wait...so Columbus was so concerned about Michkov's character that they didn't bother to interview him? Then you use Laine as an example of a player with character issues? Refresh my memory, what team does Laine play for?

I would say the more plausible reason that Columbus didn't book an interview with Michkov was that there were similar high ceiling players available at #3 that waiting 3 years, if ever, for a player to come over wasn't worth the risk. Anything you hear from teams around draft time, you take with a grain of salt.

If you're running an NHL team and you have a few players available with similar, high ceiling, potential, you book an interview with them all. There's definitely more to this than similar players available and the waiting game. Whether it was character issues or something else, I strongly doubt the above was the reason they didn't book an interview.

Kane 3 cups
Kucherov 2 cups
Stamkos 2 cups

Hedman 2 cups
Doughty 2 cups
Pietrangelo 2 cups

The difference is one cup?

But how many girls?

 

[Snotbubbles]

If you're running an NHL team and you have a few players available with similar, high ceiling, potential, you book an interview with them all. There's definitely more to this than similar players available and the waiting game. Whether it was character issues or something else, I strongly doubt the above was the reason they didn't book an interview.

So you agree, it's all just speculation.

 

[TGWL]

So you agree, it's all just speculation.

Oh, I'm not saying it's not. I'm just saying something happened, one way or another, and I think it's beyond similar tier players in that position, considering there's only 2-3 .

 

[Snotbubbles]

Yeah, of course, but why are you bringing it up discussing Reinbacher?

Because the original premise was:

If Fantilli/Carlsson become PPG do it all centers I dont think they will care too much if Michkov puts up more points....I think the what if arguement gets more serious at 4

To which I replied:

You can say that about all the players draft before Michkov. If Reinbacher/Simashev develops into a stud #1 defenseman, Montreal and Arizona won't care if Michkov scores a bunch of points.

So that is how we got here.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

There is some truth to that but that doesn't address the sad state of the KHL this season after many top imports left Russia.

I am not denying that the kid is likely a 1 OA in many drafts just applying a little context as I am not sold that he is a special talent relative to most players taken at 1 OA. I personally see a small Panarin/Tarasenko hybrid, small and elusive like Panarin but thicker like Tarasenko and more of a shooter like Tarasenko.

I do not consider him to be in the same tier as Bedard as some are claiming but I am not denying that he has the potential to be great.

I also think the import argument is weak. There are still some imports. It’s not like they lost McDavid and MacKinnon. They lost some players that most people never heard of and players that couldn’t make it in the NHL.

Even with imports, the KHL has always been about the quality of Russia’s non-NHL players. It’s still the strongest league outside of the NHL with the imports or without, so maybe you are right that it’s slightly weaker, but it’s a negligible amount. You could come up with the same arguments for the NHL. The NHL’s flat cap makes it so many good depth players get squeezed out of contracts and go to play in Europe. Is what McDavid has accomplished less impressive because of that? Because that’s not too far from what the argument you’re making about Michkov amounts to.

Why would Nick Bobrov speak about culture building when implicitly asked to explain their decision of Reinbacher over Michkov? Grier, with all that elite talent in the world not liking some "aspects" of him to the point of not drafting the guy? Teams have way more pieces of information, intel, and footage than we do so they definitely know something we don't.

You can think your speculation is right all you want, but be clear that it’s speculation, not a fact.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Noah Dobson and Mattias Sameulsson aren't stud #1 defensemen. See you're doing that thing that others are doing who make the case against Michkov. Where you take the best case scenario for the player you're hyping and take a middling scenario for the player you're trying to downgrade. If Reinbacher and/or Simashev turns into Erik Karlsson, you're not going to care if Michkov is a Rocket favorite. See...if you take a best case scenario for all the players the argument isn't as strong.

I think if you expect those players to amount to much more than that, you are getting caught up too much in the hype of the draft and how every high pick has infinite potential during the summer months and will change a franchise. As I showed a page or two back, maybe like 30% of them are any more than middle of the lineup players 3 or 4 years after being drafted. So Reinbacher may not even be Dobson and Simashev may not even be Samuelsson.

As for Michkov, I don’t know what the argument is against him being at least like a 1PPG winger. If you want to make it, please do. His production through the years and his skillset is one of the more reliable profiles of a guy that turns into one of the best in the world at his position that we’ve seen. The only argument I can make is that until it actually happens it’s impossible to predict what could happen in his career, but you could say the same thing about Bedard, and even better prospects like McDavid when he was drafted. The war, the contract, this hypothetical stuff about Michkov’s character doesn’t actually impact his hockey ability.

 

[majormajor]

As for Michkov, I don’t know what the argument is against him being at least like a 1PPG winger. If you want to make it, please do. His production through the years and his skillset is one of the more reliable profiles of a guy that turns into one of the best in the world at his position that we’ve seen. The only argument I can make is that until it actually happens it’s impossible to predict what could happen in his career, but you could say the same thing about Bedard, and even better prospects like McDavid when he was drafted. The war, the contract, this hypothetical stuff about Michkov’s character doesn’t actually impact his hockey ability.

A lot of things do have the potential to impact his hockey ability.

Anyone got a clip of that Emelin hit? That's the sort of thing that can end careers.

 

[BB88]

Yeah those horrible skating wings like J-Rob and Stone are horrible. Complete bums. If only Michkov could skate as well as them

& there are plenty of players who never reach/reached their ceiling due to skating.

I didn’t say Michkov is a bust, but he has lot of work to do in his game to reach Kucherov level and he’s not better today than Carlsson or Fantilli, they both overtook him.

&
I’ve said plenty of times if I had the 4th pick I’d pick him with a smile

 

[Kshahdoo]

& there are plenty of players who never reach/reached their ceiling due to skating.

I didn’t say Michkov is a bust, but he has lot of work to do in his game to reach Kucherov level and he’s not better today than Carlsson or Fantilli, they both overtook him.

&
I’ve said plenty of times if I had the 4th pick I’d pick him with a smile

Do you have something more than your opinion to support this?

 

[BB88]

Do you have something more than your opinion to support this?

What exactly?

 

[Kshahdoo]

What exactly?

That he isn't better than Carsson or Fantilli?

 

[BB88]

That he isn't better than Carsson or Fantilli?

He isn’t as a pro player.

Carlsson impacts& controlls the game more, he played against tougher competition in the SHL playoffs and showed better than Michkov at any point of his KHL season. He was 1C for Swe mens national team& Michkov wouldn’t have even made Russians WC roster.

Fantilli put up Eichel like numbers with better goal scoring and showed being more NHL ready than Michkov throughout the season, Michkov even without KHL shouldn’t play in the NHL next season, he’s not even close to being ready.

No doubt he’d put up better points in junior tourney but that’s not where they’ll be judged at the end of the day

 

[Guadana]

He isn’t as a pro player.

Carlsson impacts& controlls the game more, he played against tougher competition in the SHL playoffs and showed better than Michkov at any point of his KHL season. He was 1C for Swe mens national team& Michkov wouldn’t have even made Russians WC roster.

Fantilli put up Eichel like numbers with better goal scoring and showed being more NHL ready than Michkov throughout the season, Michkov even without KHL shouldn’t play in the NHL next season, he’s not even close to being ready.

No doubt he’d put up better points in junior tourney but that’s not where they’ll be judged at the end of the day

Isn`t as pro? He has record\near record season in second best pro league for player of his age. You have 3-4 years of steady calm life. Than you will regret about everything you said. And you said a lot. Like flyers, you should invest a lot in this years. But like Boston it`s the end of your prime. Use it wisely.

 

[Hanji]

He isn’t as a pro player.

Carlsson impacts& controlls the game more, he played against tougher competition in the SHL playoffs and showed better than Michkov at any point of his KHL season. He was 1C for Swe mens national team& Michkov wouldn’t have even made Russians WC roster.

Fantilli put up Eichel like numbers with better goal scoring and showed being more NHL ready than Michkov throughout the season, Michkov even without KHL shouldn’t play in the NHL next season, he’s not even close to being ready.

No doubt he’d put up better points in junior tourney but that’s not where they’ll be judged at the end of the day

Isn't a pro player? It's Fantilli who has yet to prove himself on any sustained professional level.
Michkov has been excelling at a tier of hockey that blows Fantilli's college competition out of the water.
And it's not like Fantilli was overly impressive at the World Championships either with his 3 points.

 

[Fantomas]

Flyers gonna revive the broad street bullies.

Fantilli put up Eichel like numbers with better goal scoring and showed being more NHL ready than Michkov throughout the season

Struggled at both the juniors at the WCs. If that happened to Michkov you'd be on his case hard.

 

[Kaladin]

You can say that about all the players draft before Michkov. If Reinbacher/Simashev develops into a stud #1 defenseman, Montreal and Arizona won't care if Michkov scores a bunch of points.

The chances of Reinbacher and Simashev becoming #1 defenseman are a lot lower than Michkov scoring a bunch of points though.

 

[Guess]

I feel like there is a lot of copium here from fans of teams who passed on Michkov to justify their selections. No doubt about it, he's going be an incredible player, he seems to take himself very seriously.. But team chemistry is also important, if he's going to negatively affect the performance of some other players, that's not trivial.

Interesting that he refused to meet Anaheim for an interview, and also shunned Arizona and Washington. Anyways, wishing Flyers fans the best