RW Matvei Michkov (2023, 7th, PHI) Part 4

[olgerd]

20 pts in 27 games is amazing. Is it ''generational''? Nope.

I do not think that these stats can answer this question. By the same logic Ovechkin's 24 pts in 53 games is not generational.

 

[Fantomas]

It's like if I said in 2015 that Mitch Marner would be the best player in the draft.

Is this on your distinguished list of wrong opinions?

20 pts in 27 games is amazing. Is it ''generational''? Nope.

I don't know what "generational" means, but by PNHLe Michkov has the best stats of any prospect in the draft, a hair over Bedard.

 

[Kevin Musto]

I don't know what "generational" means, but by PNHLe Michkov has the best stats of any prospect in the draft, a hair over Bedard.

Oh now it all makes sense.

You put stock in PNHLe

 

[Fantomas]

Oh now it all makes sense.

You put stock in PNHLe

I put stock in scouting, but if we're talking basic stats that's as good as anything we have.

Because when someone says "oh, 20 pts in 27 games in the KHL isn't exceptonal," my response is "hang on, you're wrong -- it's actually kind of unprecedented."

 

[Acallabeth]

Bedard has perfect D-season with all-time great WJC and elite production in CHL, and I don't think Michkov could have outplayed him. You can argue he's as good as Bedard, everyone has right to his opinion, but it's hard to argue that beating Vladimir Tarasenko's record gives you the same vibe as outscoring Connor McDavid in the same age..

I honestly would expects scouts to go by some more sesible metric.
Then again, vibe-wise... Michkov has been doing precedentless things since childhood, not stopping, not slowing down, never deserving to be questioned. Lit vibe.

I'm not saying Michkov will be drafted 1st though, no GM would risk missing a potential Canadian star because they could look stoooopid.

So is Michkov going to be better than all of those player then?

You know what?
Early to talk about that of course.
Still if you asked which player does things that wouldn't make me laugh about such a possibility... Its Michkov.

 

[Tryamkin]

It's because it's a statement that is flat out wrong.

It's like if I said in 2015 that Mitch Marner would be the best player in the draft.

I get what you’re saying but this isn’t really a fair comparison. I’ll certainly take Bedard over Michkov but Michkov is doing unprecedented things and is easily clear of a Marner comparison.

 

[Garl]

Yes, guy doesnt make his team, gets loaned to a farm team, scores 5pts in meaningless game vs 2nd worst team in the league and is then praised by stat watchers and witnesses of "crazy russian, new Ovechkin wow!" club as having the "best evar season for a russian prospect"
Unprecedented for sure

Yes, guy doesnt make his team, gets loaned to a farm team, scores 5pts in meaningless game vs 2nd worst team in the league and is then praised by stat watchers and witnesses of "crazy russian, new Ovechkin wow!" club as having the "best evar season for a russian prospect"
Unprecedented for sure

 

[Garl]

You clearly do since you’ve been whining about it for the past few pages now.

Stay salty. Neither of those guys are better than Michkov.

Why would I care about draft position. As I have said my opinion is, that Michkov, Carlsson and Fantilli are in the same tier as prospects. Michkovs season is overrated by some people, who dont know how khl works

These two words speak volumes about you and your opinion.

Michkov has the pedigree of a 1st overall pick in almost any draft.

So, he didnt get loaned?

 

[Garl]

Haters gonna hate, huh? You make it sound like scoring points in the KHL is like eating candy.
I guess when Fantilli scores 5 points against the worse teams in the NCAA is super impressive for you though

So, kunlun is a good team and it was a meaningful game? Also, Sochi is not a farm of SKA? And Michkov wasnt loaned because he failed to make SKA? He is also 6'4 and a great skater?

 

[Garl]

Fake news?

You do realize Michkov just scored at the highest rate in Russia’s top league for any draft eligible player since the mid-1990s? Right?

I don’t care what team he played for, that’s an impressive historical season.
It’s an achievement thousands of kids for nearly 3 decades have not been able to do.

I realize your schtick is to downplay his achievements. Find I get it. But let’s at least have a little intellectual honesty here. This isnt ‘fake news’.

He wasnt demoted from SKA? Sochi is not a farm? He didnt score 5 pts in a meaningless game? Those were fakes? How about intellectual honesty here?

Time will tell who will be better, but as for right now, I see good arguments for GMs to pass on Michkov in favor of Carlsson and Fantilli.

 

[Fantomas]

Yes, guy doesnt make his team, gets loaned to a farm team, scores 5pts in meaningless game vs 2nd worst team in the league and is then praised by stat watchers and witnesses of "crazy russian, new Ovechkin wow!" club as having the "best evar season for a russian prospect"
Unprecedented for sure

Everyone knows that the truly great prospects don't put up points against bad teams. It's against their ethics.

 

[GermanSpitfire]

Yes, guy doesnt make his team, gets loaned to a farm team, scores 5pts in meaningless game vs 2nd worst team in the league and is then praised by stat watchers and witnesses of "crazy russian, new Ovechkin wow!" club as having the "best evar season for a russian prospect"
Unprecedented for sure

Yes, guy doesnt make his team, gets loaned to a farm team, scores 5pts in meaningless game vs 2nd worst team in the league and is then praised by stat watchers and witnesses of "crazy russian, new Ovechkin wow!" club as having the "best evar season for a russian prospect"
Unprecedented for sure

there is so many people here that have been saying he is still the second best prospect in the draft before his move to Sochi and before the “5 point meaningless game.”

I am one of them. I have spent probably hundreds, maybe even a thousand hours studying prospects this year. I think that Michkov is the best Russian prospect since Ovechkin, full stop. And I would have said this if he spent the entire season in the VHL, where he was putting up unprecedented levels of production also. It’s really quite unfortunate that he won’t be able to come over to the NHL until 2026.

Quite honestly, I find your posts in this thread whiny and annoying, they‘re very childish, add zero substance to the thread and reek of insecurity.

 

[ozzie]

How accurate is the reporting around various sites for his height and weight? I've seen 5'8 < 150 pounds? and 5'10 < 150 pounds.

Usually, height and weight are graciously over reported. Only the weight is somewhat consistent. Anyone seen him enough to comment? Is he closer too 5'6? or are these reports outdated?

 

[cg98]

He wasnt demoted from SKA? Sochi is not a farm? He didnt score 5 pts in a meaningless game? Those were fakes? How about intellectual honesty here?

Time will tell who will be better, but as for right now, I see good arguments for GMs to pass on Michkov in favor of Carlsson and Fantilli.

That doesn’t make them better than him no matter how hard you argue about it lol

 

[Garl]

That doesn’t make them better than him no matter how hard you argue about it lol

I didnt argue that they are better. I argued that they are in the same tier. And that they had better draft seasons than him. Doesnt mean they are better prospects.

How accurate is the reporting around various sites for his height and weight? I've seen 5'8 < 150 pounds? and 5'10 < 150 pounds.

Usually, height and weight are graciously over reported. Only the weight is somewhat consistent. Anyone seen him enough to comment? Is he closer too 5'6? or are these reports outdated?

5'9 160 smth like that.

 

[Garl]

there is so many people here that have been saying he is still the second best prospect in the draft before his move to Sochi and before the “5 point meaningless game.”

I am one of them. I have spent probably hundreds, maybe even a thousand hours studying prospects this year. I think that Michkov is the best Russian prospect since Ovechkin, full stop. And I would have said this if he spent the entire season in the VHL, where he was putting up unprecedented levels of production also. It’s really quite unfortunate that he won’t be able to come over to the NHL until 2026.

Quite honestly, I find your posts in this thread whiny and annoying, they‘re very childish, add zero substance to the thread and reek of insecurity.

What kind of substance to you need? Good news or nothing?

1.Some people might even think he is the best prospect in the draft. There is a reason for that, he really has been a prodigy in russian hockey.
2. "5 pts meaningless game" made all of the "historical season hype" even though, knowing the context you would know that Michkov's season this year, compared to the expectations was rather "pedestrian". But how dare you say this! Anafema!
That doesn't mean that he is bad, worse than Carlsson or Fantilli etc, I didn't say that.
3.Best prospect since Ovechkin is not much. His competition is basically Yakupov(who is a bust and nobody wants to make this comparsion, even thought he was a great junior player) and Svechnikov. I guess, Michkov takes that title. Now, would he become the best player since Ovechkin is a big question. Kucherov is a serious competition.
4.You would have called him 2nd best prospect in the draft if he stayed in VHL? Fine. Again, he has the hype, and it is deserved by his previous achievements.
5.What is annoying is the amount of personal attacks here, which derail the discussion. So far there was no good counter agrument to what I am saying, because there is none. The fact that Michkov made zero impact in SKA this year and played for a farm team is a dissapointment for many people. With his hype people expected him to be an impact player in KHL this season. He wasn't and the tale that he actually was and had a "historical" season in Sochi is just not truth.

Bottom line, Michkov is a prodigy, his hype is warranted, he would have went 1st overall in some drafts. However, he has flaws, he is small, not the best skater, not a great playmaker. There are questions about his game translating to highest level, and this season wasn't a strong answer to this questions.

Everyone knows that the truly great prospects don't put up points against bad teams. It's against their ethics.

They def do, but it is not what makes them great prospects

 

[GermanSpitfire]

I actually think his production in Sochi is MORE impressive than some are making it out to be - even a stat watcher can point this out.

He scored 20 points in 27 games. He finished 4th in team scoring. in less than half the games played as his teammates. He was 10’points off the highest scoring player on his team and that player played 55 games.

It‘s much more difficult to score on a terrible team, than it is on a good one. I think some of you are out to lunch on this one.

 

[Cahokia]

This is not how it works. Every year some teams are at the bottom and somebody scores a lot there. You will not be leagues best scorer there, but 0.5-0.6 PPG you can do, Ryan Spooner was actually almost PPG on the horrible Minsk team back when they were last in KHL.

Cherepanov was an impact player on a good team, Tarasenko was a top player for an average team, Michkov is a scorer on a bottom team, which is basically a farm for SKA. Of course Cherepanov and Tarasenko had better draft years. Were they better prospects? No, it's a different question. But they were more mature as players(not physically), were better suited for KHL at the same age.

Nichushkin and Kravtsov were impactful in playoffs, Michkov played for Sochi. Enough said. And again, doesn't mean they are better as prospects. But they had better or at least similar draft seasons.

Bottom line, Michkov didn't make his KHL team and was sent down, first to VHL, then to their KHL farm team, where he had a good scoring rate. If he scored 10 pts in the same amount of games for SKA, it would have been more impressive than scoring 20 pts for Sochi.

It's Ok, Sebastian Collberg was better than Filip Forsberg in his draft year. Let's say Lias Andersson had a better draft season than I dunno, for example William Nylander.

Tarasenko's team finished 20th out of 24 teams in his draft year. That's definitely not an "average team". Not to mention, his dad was the coach so it's not exactly a surprise he made that team.

Similar story for other top prospects.
Kuznetsov: Traktor finished 18th out of 24 teams
Panarin: Vityaz finished 23rd out of 24 teams
Kaprizov: Novokuznetsk finished 27th out of 28 teams

Nichushkin had 15 points in 43 games (RS + playoffs), including 6 points in 18 games in the RS, and 9 in 25 in PO. How is that more impressive overall than Michkov's season? It's not his fault his team sucks ass and never even sniffed being 2nd last in the league.

Kravtsov had 18 points in 51 games (RS + playoffs). His playoff performance was impressive (11 points in 16 games) but that ppg (in playoffs only, ignoring his much weaker RS) is about the same as Michkov who is playing on a dogshit team and did it over a larger sample size. Not to mention, Michkov has been impressive at every level, whereas Kravtsov's claim to fame is pretty much just that one playoff. He was never as impressive before or after that. Michkov actually had a higher ppg this year than Kravtsov had in any of his first 4 seasons.

I agree that playing on a bad team helps young players since they get more ice time, but Michkov's team is so historically awful that I think it actually works against him. His teammates are bad even by bad KHL team standards. He was 4th in team scoring despite playing half of the number of games of anyone ahead of him. His ppg was the highest by far, and he only played 16 minutes a game.

The only guy (since Ovechkin/Malkin) you listed who actually compares favourably to Michkov in their draft season is Cherepanov, and unfortunately we'll never know how good he could have been.

He wasnt demoted from SKA? Sochi is not a farm? He didnt score 5 pts in a meaningless game? Those were fakes? How about intellectual honesty here?

Time will tell who will be better, but as for right now, I see good arguments for GMs to pass on Michkov in favor of Carlsson and Fantilli.

SKA has 2 rosters worth of players and Russian coaches are dinosaurs that bury young players unless they have no other options. It has little to do with his performance.

To look at it another way, Michkov played with Khusnutdinov last year both on the junior team and on SKA, and he and more points in both cases. Khusnutdinov stayed on SKA this year and got the same amount of ice time per game as Michkov on Sochi (15:47 vs 15:51 toi), yet Michkov still has a higher ppg this year despite having much worse teammates. Besides icetime, in what way does playing on a shit team help Michkov?

Based on what you are saying about "making" SKA, Khusnutdinov became way better than Michkov this year, despite still having comparable ppg with the same ice time, and with Khusnutdinov having way, way, better teammates.

Kunlun may be 2nd last, but they were almost closer to a playoff spot (19 points out) than they were to HC Sochi (17 points ahead). Even garbage teams are decent competition when you play on probably the worst team in league history.

 

[cg98]

I didnt argue that they are better. I argued that they are in the same tier. And that they had better draft seasons than him. Doesnt mean they are better prospects.


5'9 160 smth like that.

That’s debatable, Michkov just posted the best draft eligible season in the KHL ever, on a dogshit team. The KHL is much better than the RSL circuit in the early 2000s that you yammer on about, even with all the imports that left. He’s done nothing but produce against competition multiple years his senior, the only other player even compatible in that regard is Bedard.

 

[NatusVincere]

Yes, guy doesnt make his team, gets loaned to a farm team, scores 5pts in meaningless game vs 2nd worst team in the league and is then praised by stat watchers and witnesses of "crazy russian, new Ovechkin wow!" club as having the "best evar season for a russian prospect"
Unprecedented for sure

Yes, guy doesnt make his team, gets loaned to a farm team, scores 5pts in meaningless game vs 2nd worst team in the league and is then praised by stat watchers and witnesses of "crazy russian, new Ovechkin wow!" club as having the "best evar season for a russian prospect"
Unprecedented for sure

Michkov > Bedard
Kunlun > Austria
MHL > WHL
Crazy Russian > Crazy Garl

 

[Mawwerg]

Meanwhile Michkov opened the day with another assist.

And continued with another goal.

 

[FourQuarters]

You could say that the last game was a meaningless game, but one of the misleading things about stats is that not only meaningful games are counted. This applies to everyone. You can't say that five meaningless points for michkov's historic PPG is unacceptable, but the sheer number of points bedard scored against teams like Austria or the oil kings is great

 

[NatusVincere]

Michkov had 3 points in two games against SKA. He michkoved Swedens EHT Team 17 years old with a lacross goal. This whole scored only against a Chinese Team is some salty BS from die hard Bedard fans.

 

[Caser]

 

[Mawwerg]

Michkov added an empty net goal. He has 4+2 in this two playin games versus Russkie Vityazi. Kapitan made it to MHL playoffs.